Ok, a couple weeks ago I broke down my 15-3 to completely clean it and convert it to frog lube. AFAIK its not been taken apart since the 70's when my dad last fired it.

I removed the side plate to access and treat the trigger action assembly. I thought I noted placement of all parts but apparently I missed something.

After re-assembling it, it appeared to cycle properly and very smoothly. However, when I got it to the range it appears something is not right and I am sure its something I did or failed to do during disassembly and reassembly.

On the bright side, I rectified the problem with the yoke sliding out. I thought it was odd that the cylinder yoke constantly would slide out. I discovered that the shorter screw for the side plate had been put in the forward hole and was too short to retain the yoke. By putting the longer screw there, the yoke stayed in place as I think it should have. So I fixed that problem, but caused another.

Prior to this cleaning I know it cycled properly as I had run about 150+ rds through it with zero misfires, even using really old ammo (70's vintage). But, now I am getting about 50% or higher FTF. I tried running rounds from a brand new box of ammo and some from a box from the 70's (WCs) which, until now had never had a misfire from that lot.

I noticed that the primer strikes on the FTF are not on-center, they are usually off to a side or frequently barely on the primer at all. I am thinking the cylinder is not indexing properly. When I cock the hammer the FTF rate seems higher than if I run it DA but that may just be the luck of the draw. I stopped trying to shoot it at the rage after 4 cylinder loads resulted in so many FTFs.

Anyone have ideas on what I should check here? I am new to the 15-3 as I just received it from my dad this year. Any help identifying the problem will be appreciated. Can supply photos of the action if needed for diagnosis.

I`m just guessing ,but it could be the hammer block safety is not correctly placed. I`d disassemble it and double check the part placement and try it again.One other thing, is the main spring screw fully seated?

You have identified several symptoms that may, or may not, be related. We can spend all day guessing what might be the matter. To avoid the frustration and further damage, I suggest you take it to a gunsmith who has, at least, S&W armorer credentials.

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Why, I aughta.....

I did not remove the main spring, if you mean the leaf spring inside the cavity between the grips.

Also, anyone have a decent sized PDF of the schematic and parts list? Obviously I will need that for proper reference. The PDF I found from S&W has no parts schematic.

This is what happens when guys take apart stuff without knowledge of how it is put back together. The yoke screw is specific because it is fitted. The hammer block could be put in wrong but doubtful as it would be hard to get the sideplate back on... maybe the mainspring screw is not tight, maybe the hammer is not set properly? As noted above, take it somewhere and get it checked.

Thank you, and that is an option. But, if I send it to a smith to fix, I learn nothing. I still won't know what went wrong, and its likely it will happen again. I would like to learn from my mistakes and thus prevent making the same mistake again. The best way I know of doing that is to learn what went wrong and how to correct the error.

You need a copy of, The Smith & Wesson Revolver, A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen, before opening or shooting that puppy again. Even then the smart money would have a qualified S&W smith verify your finding before shooting it again.

The book is available in gun shops and on line either new or used.

I have had my Savage model 93, my Ruger 10/22, my Remington 1903a3, my Remington 700 and my 1939 Tula Mosin 91/30 completely apart (including the triggers and bolts) and have had no issues with those (though I had decent sized schematics for most which I lack for the 15-3). I have also broken down my Sig 226 EE and converted to frog lube and had no problems either with it either. So, I thought I had sufficient ability to deal with the 15-3.

Yes, I found that the yoke screw is specific. I was not the one who disassembled it long ago and replaced the plate screws in the improper holes. After removing the screws, I noted the difference in lengths and corrected the yoke problem by using the proper plate screw in the forward hole. So I was clearly able to diagnose this problem and rectify it with no schematics.

Moving on...

I didn't completely disassemble the trigger action, never removed the hammer, did not remove the main spring nor its adjustment screw. I felt it wasn't prudent without proper schematics. The parts I did remove, I thought I had noted proper placement and order. Clearly I was mistaken.

It was a light disassembly, not a complete tear down. I only broke it down to a sufficient state as to be able to clean the action with a brush and to treat it with FL.

Perhaps if you remove the side plate and take close up pictures we can identify what may be amiss. Did you by chance remove the hand from the trigger? The little hairpin spring inside keeps it under tension and will come out if the hand is removed. Since you did not remove the mainspring I doubt if you could have easily removed either the trigger or hammer.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thank you! I will seek it out. Thats the sort of info I was looking for.

Correct, neither the hammer nor trigger were removed.

I will take detailed photos with side plate removed tonight. I thought it would be needed eventually so I had planned to do so.

Go to Numrich's website (gunpartscorp.com), then search mfr's by letter and click smith & wesson, then scroll down to the revolvers until you get to the model 15. There are drawings along with parts lists.
Sometimes the hammer block gets bumped out of place when you're getting the sideplate into place. In my experience it either works or it doesn't, in fact the sideplate doesn't usually go on unless it's in place, but that might be the problem. You might double-check that the strain screw (in the grips front strap) for the mainspring is tight.

I would still take it to a gunsmith, unless you want to learn detail disassembly by yourself. The gun has apparently never been properly cleaned and reassembled since it was first taken apart by the fellow who swapped the round-headed screws, thus it may have had a lot of crud in it, or at least some. If you didn't remove the mainspring, you didn't remove much else. In attempting to clean the innards, you may have flushed some crud to the left side of the lockwork, and reattaching the sideplate may have caused one of several parts to bind. The FIRST step in diagnosing your present problem is to clean the gun AFTER removal of most or all of the parts. If you don't intend to do this, a qualified gunsmith should be employed to do so. Any other route is unlikely to solve your problem, and even if it does, will probably still leave you with a dirty gun.

P.S. Wear eye protection against the rebound slide spring, and use a plastic bag or extreme care to avoid losing the spring behind the bolt.

Thats a good point as to you sending it out to ANY 'smith or shop, even the factory, to get it fixed" and you will not learn a thing..yes, good info above as to the "books" and I'd bet there may be something on YOUTUBE, heck everything else is on there........depending on "how" you removed the side plate, about the ONLY two things you could take out ( or in the case of ONE, it falls out), is the hammer block and the "hand" ( pawl) if you did pull it out or off enough for the spring to come "unhooked".....again, if some folks "pop" off the side plate, the hammer/trigger will shift after the bounce to remove the plate. I'm 'guessing , you pried the plate off, not wise thing to do.......
wish you were nearby, I'd walk you through "the how to", done it hundreds of times over the years, sometimes even at gun shows, when things are slow or I'm bored,,,MANY gunsmiths ( and shops ) will NOT show you "how", some think its "trade secrets" or whatever, but they just don't want to show how easy it really is to do, gotta justify what they charge you know...many shops we've seen will charge a "bench" charge' to check it out, tell you what it needs ,how long and how much...I KNOW some guys who fix things up in a matter of minutes, will wipe it off, hang it up or place on the pick up shelf, and tell the counter man to call you in a few days, or a week or so, again, make it seem like it was really BAD, or hard to do....guess I'm kinda like the guy on TV tells how all the magicians do some of their tricks..........
get the books, find a video, if nothing have a friend take off the side plate of their K frame, so you can "see & compare",,,years ago the NRA put out some gunsmith gun repair, takedown books, I recall by a guy named Woods, and they were/are a "step by step" with LOTS of pictures........

good luck, if you get really stuck send me an e-mail, and I will call you back !!

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dan
NRA Benefactor,PMA

Wolfiesden:

I applaud you for your efforts to learn how to service/diagnose/repair your S&W Model 15. Experience can be a harsh, but excellent teacher. Besides the references already provided (Numrich's schematics, "S&W Shop Manual", etc.), I would suggest another resource - Jerry Miculek is a gunsmith as well as being a master shooter. He makes a series of DVDs dealing with trigger jobs and disassembly of the S&W K/L/N frame revolvers that you may find useful. As some of the other members have advised, detailed photos may be helpful.

Best of luck,

Dave

The side plate was very stubborn to remove. I took a 1/4" wood dowel and used my belt sander to flatten one end to make a screwdriver like blade that would not harm the bluing. I used that to ease the rear end of the side plate up and out.

And yes, the "ONE" piece did fall out now that you mention it. Sorry, I forgot to mention that in the first post. Its location was a best guess on my part during reassembly. Would that be the culprit you think?

You should NOT pry the side plate off . All you need to do is tap the grip frame with a screw driver handle or a mallet and it will pop right off.
Why don't you go on to you tube and do a search. You will find all you need to know right there. It is not hard stuff and once you see how it`s done you will be able to have a lot of fun with all those exquisite little parts that want to be polished and honed to mechanical perfection.

The reason I didn't bang it around was that I was afraid of dislodging delicate trigger pieces as the plate came off. Clearly they were perfectly safe with the plate in place or the recoil would sham them up every round. But I was afraid that some of the pieces could begin to move as the plate begins to lift.

And using a pointed wood dowel would prevent any damage to the steel plate. Obviously the wood was softer and weaker and would break and give long before and damage to the pistol.

I am not one to bang on something without knowing what the result would be.

It seemed logical at the time.

That is my goal. Find out what it is I did wrong. Find out if I can correct it (maybe, maybe not). If I can correct it, do so. If not, I still need to know what I did wrong because I don't want to do it again. And simply saying I am never going to disassemble it to clean and maintain is foolish.

I liken this to taking apart dad's stereo when I was a kid. I, of course, broke it. But he insisted I fix it. Fix what I broke. So I learned and studied. It took 2 years to learn enough to fix it. Of course he had long since bought another one but it was the point. That lead to 15 years of being a broadcast engineer. Will this lead to gunsmithing career? Who knows, doubt it but I want to know I can do it if I need to.

I change the oil in my cars. I hand wash them in the driveway. I change their plugs. I rotate their tires. Dammit if I am going to own a firearm, I am going to know how to maintain it as well. As I said, I thought I had enough knowledge. I thought if I could change the oil on a car, I could change the oil on a motorcycle.

I made a mistake. I admitted I did so. And I really appreciate those of you offering useful information to help me identify what it was and if possible correct it.

The book that was reccomended is a must and the DVD's are great. I also find that just looking to see how parts interact goes a long way.

I don't think you broke anything. It's just a matter of getting it together right. My first thought was the hammer block is not correctly placed on the pin on rebound slide. That might cause your symptoms. The hammer block needs to run in the slot on the side plate and be placed on the rebound slide pin. You need to do this without forcing the side plate on. I usually put slight pressure on the side plate while cocking the hammer and the hammer block finds it's way into the slot. It's all much easier to do than describe. Just take your time and don't use too much force on anything.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

That is my thinking too. Its not broke. Its simply not assembled correctly. That was never really a fear.

From the various descriptions here and on youtube, I suspect its the hammer block (the piece that fell out) as I made a guess as to its correct placement. I will pop the plate off tonight (the proper way using tapping). Photograph it as it is now and then see if it was not properly placed.

No, I didn't force anything during reassembly. That I know better!

As I said, there was no binding during or after reassembly nor during shooting. So I suspect it may not be on the pin you describe but is in such a place as not to bind against anything.

Again, thank you for extremely useful info!

I bet you get it back together with little problems. It sounds like you are on the right track. Please let us know how it goes or if you have any more questions.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

One good video is the Jerry Miculek trigger job video. He describes the complete disassembly procedure as he tears it down to do a trigger job.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Ok, here we go...

Thanks for the tapping tip with the screwdriver! Total freaking win! Way easier than the stupid dowel thing to get the side plate off.

So, here it is as first opened up:


A bit closer:


As you can see, I did get the hammer lock on properly on the pin. So it wasn't that.

So, here is what happened. I decided to grab this dawg by the tail and swing. I looked at some videos. Some of the referenced links yall gave and decided I wasn't going to let this thing beat me. Its not that complicated a mechanism. Finely crafted. Well designed. Yep. Not complicated.

So I totally took it apart. Cleaned all the parts and re-treated them with Frog Lube.

All except the cylinder index. Pictured here (Not sure thats the real name, bet its not, but its what I am going to call it for now until I can find out the real name):


I wasn't sure how to get the spring out without screwing it up. So I left it.

I analyzed each part, what it did and how it interacted with all the other parts. I couldn't find anything wrong with any of them. I reassembled it several times and it all looked like it was functioning properly. Until I turned it over. Thats when I noticed the cylinder index key was not operating the way "I" thought it should.

This little bugger right here:


Here is how it was operating:

1. Pull the trigger
2. As the trigger is pulled the cylinder index key would lower into the frame
3. The cylinder dawg would extend to rotate the cylinder.
4. The dawg would retract
5. The hammer would go to full cock
6. The sear would engage
7. The hammer would fall
8. The cylinder index would pop back out of the frame

That seems wrong. The index should come up to stop the cylinder prior to the sear engaging. Or so I thought. Seems logical anyway. If the cylinder doesn't key, that would explain the off center pin hits and some that barely made it to the primer.

So I tore it apart again. The part that I never removed seemed free, clean and moveable. After several disassemblies and reassamblies I figured out what was going on. It seems the spring for the thing has a slight bend in it. Of course I didn't know it wasn't supposed to have a bend so it "looked" ok.

Now bear in mind I never got it apart to this level before. So the only thing I can think of is maybe when I had it apart the first time the spring rotated somehow and was now making the index bind on something and not snap back into place to lock the cylinder at the proper place.

So I grabbed a dental pick and schooched the spring out if the hole in the frame. Wasn't an easy task but I didn't see any videos showing its proper removal so, again, I just flew by my pants. And it seemed to work.

Sure enough it had a slight bend to it. So I (feeling it was replaceable should I screw the pooch here), slid it over a couple torx screwdrivers I have and bent it back straight. Slowly, bit by bit. I figured the torx screwdrivers would make the spring hold shape so it wouldn't compress or go oval and simply bend where I wanted it to with minimal risk. Again, seat of the pants, and it appears to have paid off. It darn sure looks straight.

Well, after a bit of tinkering with the spring to straighten it, I reassembled the whole thing. A dry run of the trigger with the side plate off sure looked promising. A few extra dabs of liquid Frog lube on the bearing surfaces and on with the re-assembly.

Now it appears to operate as I think it should:
Here is how it was operating:

1. Pull the trigger
2. As the trigger is pulled the cylinder index key would lower into the frame
3. The cylinder dawg would extend to rotate the cylinder.
4. Prior to the cylinder turning a complete step the index key now pops up
5. The cylinder now stops when the key hits the index slots in the cylinder.
6. The hammer would go to full cock
7. The sear would engage
8. The hammer would fall

Now it seems more logical. And it appears to do it every time 100%. At least the several dozen times I pulled the trigger or cocked the hammer. The cylinder locks in place each time positively prior to hammer fall. Which is what "I" think it really should do.

I think I will dig up those better parts diagrams and get real names for these parts and the spring. Get a new one ordered I think.

So I guess the proof will be at the range. See if it indexes properly each time. But I will be paying very very close attention to it each shot for a while.

I guess some of you are laughing your tails off. But I did figure out what was wrong. At least I think so. Feel free to let me know if I went off track here. And if yall have any more good tips on tinkering with this 15-3, do tell. I am all ears!


So here is the casing evidence:


Notice all the off center strikes on the first row of spent casings.

Scary. Glad I stopped after a couple cylinder loads. This could have ended very poorly if one was just a little off from the barrel but close enough to actually fire.

So thanks for everyone pitching in here and giving me a hand and the incentive to figure this thing out rather than just having a gunsmith do it. Thanks to that I am considerably more attuned to the mechanicals of this thing. Can I repair everything? Certainly not. But at least I have enough knowledge to take the trigger assembly apart and proper clean and inspect it.

I still intend to seek out that book. Midway is out of stock on it but I can backorder it so I will do so next time I place an order.

Do not attempt to disassemble an Enfield Mk VI, or any other English break top revolver. The same goes for the Remington model 51 pistol, etc, etc. The Smith & Wesson hand ejector is a piece of cake. I go into a major studying mode BEFORE I try to take down any gun. Before is the key word here. Best of luck with your 15.

Cool. I'm glad you got it and posted back to let us know. Your going to love that revolver.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

You got that figured out rather well. I do not know how one can have off center hammer nose strikes as you had without it being an issue with the cylinder stop/cylinder stop notch interface problem. I seriously doubt your initial sideplate removal caused the cylinder stop spring to malfunction, as you did not remove anything that could have created the problem. Now you can have a lot of shooting pleasure with a fine gun.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Good for you Wolfie, now you need to tackle honing and polishing those parts. Just don`t do what I did. A few weeks ago I disassembled a Colt 1903 hammerless and was completely stumped at how to reassemble it, but Thanks to forum member Bob Smalser`s fine tutorial I got it, but I never would have without his invaluable help.
Remember "A Man Needs To Know His Limitations"
Good Shooting, Jack

The only thing I can think of is the spring might have been bent for decades. I was in there cleaning the hell out of it best I could without disassembling it and that meant using #9 and a toothbrush to aggressively scrub it clean. Then I used a trimmed acid brush to apply frog lube before heating it with a hair dryer to set the frog lube.

My guess is that I must have rotated the bent spring with one of the brushes. The spring was then pushing the key slightly sideways instead of straight up thus causing it to bind on the side of the trigger or the frame and not pop back up to index the cylinder.

Which is EXACTLY why I didn't hit it with a hammer to open the side plate, used gentile pressure to pop it open and didn't disassemble any of the action on the first cleaning go around.

It may have already had a trigger job done in the past. Dad was a competition shooter in the USAF. He already has the target grips on it. With the hammer cocked, this trigger is REAL light and smooth as a buffed baby's butt. Even in DA mode its smooth though a strong pull. I may look at a replacement trigger spring for a lighter DA pull.

I think I am going to measure the SA and DA modes using this:
DIY Trigger Pull Gauge - YouTube

This is not going to be an IDPA gun She will be a range shooter and something to keep in my nightstand with some critical defense rounds in her.

Wolfie, you done GOOD and great pictures by the way, and YES< if the the "cylinder stop" has a bent spring or any gunk , in the area, or TOO thick of a lube, it can and will "hang up" as you so well noted just what happens , when you work the action , pull the trigger slowly,you look CLOSE and the 'stop ' goes down,, into the wind slot, and a slight back and forth as it "rides" over the trigger
'nose'......you did not say in your comments but I will add, to access the "cylinder stop' better, you need to pull the trigger back , and out of the way, the dental pick is perfect for slipping the 'stop' out , off the cylinder stop pin, and careful NOT to "bend" the cylinder stop spring.
You did fine, later on , and with time, and confidence you will do better....
ONE note, I "see" in your picture you have the strain screw ( in front of the grip frame) backed out, and the mainspring is fairly "straight", not good, as this will affect the lock up , and the way the action works, needs to have the proper pressure.............
Good job Sir..................

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dan
NRA Benefactor,PMA

I would certainly give you 100% for initiative. Enjoy!

Thank you Dan. Really appreciate it. It feels good when you can figure out a problem and then figure out the solution yourself. Its kinda a pride thing, man and his machine.

And thank you for the graceful hints on proper names.

The main spring you see in the photo is as it was when I received the pistol. I never adjusted it as I didn't know what the proper adjustment was. After the last reassembly last night, I looked up some videos on adjusting it to get it in range. It now has a slight bow to it which seems to be what everyone recommends.

It appears it controls the pin strike force. As you can see in the ammo shot, the primer hits are not light, even with the main spring less tensioned than it probably should be. On the first range trip, I will be monitoring the primer hit depressions.

Been watching this thread from the peanut gallery, & don't think anyone is laughing at this point. Least of all, me.

Congrats on the analytical thinking / problem solving, your die hard perseverance, & for the great write up!

That said, I will join the others who have recommended "The Smith & Wesson Revolver, A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen". I never personally had the guts to pull the plate on any of my S&W's, before reading it. It is a great reference, even for a natural born technician - such as your self. ;=]

For the record, I make my living, self employed (21 years) as a electro-mechanical equipment field service tech. I am a big believer in "well written" service manuals, & when ever possible, keep them on hand for all models of equipment serviced.

Nice little pistola, BTW. I need a VG condition Mod 15, or Mod 67 badly - want to sell it?.

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Regards - GCF

Well, I figured my total lack of correct terms, whipping out a hardened dental pick and jumping in and taking it apart without complete instructions would have provided great delight to some.

I operate on the assumption that I was not the first to encounter this issue and I won't be the last. The next guy (or gal) now has the most vital thing at their disposal. Information. Its pointless to keep what I learned hidden. Maybe someone else can benefit from my failure and ultimate solution. Isn't that kinda the heart and soul of a forum like this? To share?

Its on backorder at midway already

Nope. It was dad's. I really love this thing and so does my 9yr old granddaughter. My Sig p226 9mm is a bit much for her and this has the weight and recoil she can be comfortable with. If she still likes it when she gets older, I will pass it on to her. I wouldn't dare take that away from her for any amount of money.

Thought I would pop in with a range report. I had a chance to fire it at the range this past weekend. Absolute dream. Again

It appears that the cylinder stop was indeed the culprit and straightening the spring made it all happy again. I ran a few rounds through slowly checking for proper cylinder indexing between trigger pulls. It was 100% TDC every time. SA, DA, didn't matter. I carefully checked the spent casings and every primer hit was spot on center. Ran about 40 rounds through with zero misfires.

So again, thank you everyone for chipping in with useful information and recommendations.

Good job. You do, you learn. I would forgo the Frog Lube for a very light coat of light machine oil (like Ballistol) on all moving surfaces. It's really amazing, when you see a brand new Smith come from the factory, to most tinkerers eyes, the gun looks dry. It's not. Very little oil goes a very long way in a revolver. Oil gets sluggish and collects dirt. More so with grease.

Congratulations! You actually reverse engineered the mechanism function. That is one way to figure out a problem. You had more guts than I did way back when I popped open a side plate the first time. I watched a video a couple times before I proceeded. NOW I open up every (used) S&W I acquire to make sure it is clean and lubed, and have progressed to a little minor stoning to smooth thing up a little. I previously taught myself how to do trigger jobs on 1911's, and now grind frames to fit beavertail safeties, etc.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Actually, those are the reasons I changed it over to Frog Lube. It does not attract dust and grime. I typically use the paste on the frames/receivers and bore. The liquid I apply to moving parts like bolt and actions.

I was extremely skeptical of it at first and did a hell of a lot of reading and looking before I jumped in. I have still not converted all my firearms but some I have. The first and the test case was my Savage Model 93 in 17HMR. A couple range trips showed me it was easy to clean and the action smooth as a baby's butt after removing the heavy grease Savage applied to the trigger and safety. 17hmr is not a dirty round, nowhere like a 22 so it really wasn't a true hard core test. But the kicker that sold me was a single range trip.

We went out for a whole day. We shot thousands of rounds through a multitude of rifles and handguns, mostly at the same 3 stations. There was a headwind coming over the berm and down the range right into our faces. Berm impacts constantly driving a fine white-gray dust into the air and back toward us.

That evening we started to pack up and thats when a friend noticed something completely oblivious to everyone else. Every gun, EVERY gun there had a fine white dust on it. Every one EXCEPT my Savage 93. It was virtually spotless. It was one of the first guns to come out as its one of my granddaughters' favorites and had never been returned to its case all day. You could draw your finger along a barrel and leave a mark in the dust on all the other guns there. But the Savage with frog lube was virtually spotless and looked like it has just been taken out of its case.

Then, upon closer inspection, you could see the same white dust on the scope glass where no frog lube was. The rifle was spotless but the glass had the same white dust. That told me it received the same dust clouds as everything else but it simply didn't stick to the frog lube. When I held up the two mags, I could see a fine white dust on one but not the other. The one with it was one I had purchased after converting the rifle to frog lube and had not been treated, it was a silver one, the factory one was blue and had been treated along with the rifle.

That sold me right there.

I have since converted my Sig 226, SW 15-3, and my Rem 700/223. They all remain virtually spotless and require little more than a wipe down with a microfiber towel and a pair of bore cloth pads. Even shooting old military surplus corrosive ammo through the 223, the bore is clean on the second pad. The third one comes off the jag spotless. Stuff simply doesn't stick to frog lube.

Thanks for the info on Frog Lube. I may have to try that when I get around to it.

Not trying to convert anyone to frog lube, just my guns

Do your research, test it yourself, make your own mind up.

I have come to the realization that the kids hate Hoppies and love Frog lube. The smell and the feel. In fact, after cleaning with frog lube, you will notice your skin feels softer than it was before you cleaned your gun. But hey, thats not the reason to use it is it? Oh, and try it on the rollers on any sliding doors you got

Question? Do you have stock in Frog Lube? You are a good salesman.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Nope. Just a user. Bought the basic kit that has 4oz of the liquid, 4oz of the cream, a brush and a microfiber towel. Got it off ebay so I didn't even buy it direct.

I also find it hides finger prints as well too...


Apparently if you do leave fingerprints, the FL will break them down just like any other oil or petroleum based product.