Hello, new to the forum. I have always been a firearms enthusiast in general, and joined the NRA at age 14; been a member ever since. In my early 20's I became interested in Ithaca guns and have been focused on them for the most part ever since. While I do tend to favor S&W revolvers over other brands, I only know some of the very basics and that is why I am looking for a second opinion on this gun. I have what appears to be an authentic USAF 15-2. From what I gather 2000 K-2 revolvers where sent to the air force in 1965. If I have looked it up correctly the serial number indicates a late 1964 manufacturing date making it plausible that it was part of the '65 shipment. The USAF stamp appears to be well done, and is consistent in location and style as others I have seen posted on this site. The finish appears to be original with minimal if any holster wear. There is some light speckling on the right side as well as a portion of the cylinder. Looks like it may have sat in a drawer for an extended period of time. Judging from the pictures what is your opinion of its authenticity (I do not want to be the guy passing off a fake)? What would be a fair value? Thanks for the help!

Welcome to the forum! Can't say if it is original but I believe it might be. Wanting to sell it? I may be interested if not to crazy. Kyle

Welcome! It has the proper configuration (Magna stocks, Target hammer and trigger), and the U.S.A.F. stamping is consistent with an original gun. The best and only way to confirm this is with a factory letter. These are uncommon, if not rare in the collecting world. Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

http://smith-wessonforum.com/downloa...?do=file&id=17
Here's a link to a S&W Historical letter request form.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks for the info, but the link does not work. Possibly because I am a new user.

It looks authentic, and in very nice shape.
Ballpark value, provided it is a genuine USAF contract gun, $1500.
Try this link to the S&W Factory website for a history letter:

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

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John

I carried one for years, and that one certainly looks legit. I hope it letters.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

The markings on your gun look legitimate but only a factory letter will confirm it as an Air Force gun. This one has a serial number about 2000 higher than yours and shipped to the USAF on 2/26/1965.

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John. SWCA #1586

Thanks for the input, this gun appears to look promising. I will send off for a letter one day this week. How long does it usually take for a reply?

That also looks like the real deal to me and these are very sought after revolvers by former Air Force service personal from that era. I feel the price mentioned above is what you could get easily if the revolver letters.

It looks like the ones I used to check out of the armory back in the 80s, except there isn't much holster wear on your fine example. All the ones we got issued were blue worn and dinged up quite a bit more than this one. Put me in line for purchase if it letters, or even if it doesn't........ I get all nostalgic when I see a USAF stamped M15.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

I've been waiting for two letters since Dec. I read that it's been taking about 4 months.

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Watch & Pray

Ok, a little bit of lead time on the letter. Sounds as though the letter is a good investment though. Once the letter comes back the gun will most likely be offered for sale.

I filled out paperwork, and mailed the check and pictures off today. Can't wait to see how it letters out!

My opinion on your future sale is to list the gun on Gunbroker.

I have one that is boxed.

Take your stocks off very carefully and see if they number to the gun.

I would venture a guess that that would bring over 2k on Gunbroker.

Let the market set the value. I would not stick it up for sale with a set price.

I have been offered a number way above what I mentioned yours may go for, but mine is boxed with all original stuff, including the serialized outer wrap and the foil type paper they used with these.

If that gun is for sale for the 1500 someone mentioned, I will buy it right now without a letter.


If you want all the money out of that, letter it, then AUCTION it.

Lemme know if the stocks number to the gun. My guess is they do. That gun doesn't SEEM to have seen a lot of use from the pics you provided.

You don't come across these things in that shape.

DON'T GIVE IT AWAY!

Personally, if you can afford to......... Keep it. It will continue to rise in value substantially over the coming years.

PS- Last one I saw for sale was David Carroll and it was 2800 with no box. It was summer of 2012 that he had it on his website. Looks like yours is just as nice. Clean that off good and then WAX it and watch how much better it looks. Makes a world of difference over oil.

PPS- the USAF is blued. The phonies are stamped AFTER they are blued and you can spot that difference. Your gun does not look re blued either to me. It's legit. Your letter will confirm.

Do you mind telling us how you came by it?

Thats a VERY nice one..... most were used quite a bit and have some significant wear..... another tell tale sign is to dry fire the gun with some snap caps... every original that I have ever fired has a trigger that feels like butta! (good butta, thats tasty, not the clog your arteries up type ) I dunno if thats because I have never fired one that seemed that new, and they were all broken in well, or if they had a little somethin-somethin done at the factory before shipment. I know all the ones I ever qualified with were much sweeter than anything i ever found for sale!!! Good luck!!!!

If that weapon could only tell stories. When I went through the academy back in the stone age that was the weapon we were issued for firearms training. Nice grab.

Somehow the Ms. Game and Fish Dept. got some of these as surplus years ago. I'm guessing they came from Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi. I was doing the security detail at a gun auction in Brooklyn, Ms. when 10-12 of them came through. One bidder bought all of them for $125.00 each. All were configured as yours but they were in very rough shape as they had been used in the field in all kinds of weather for several years. I have also seen the remains of several that had been crushed.

Get the letter.

How I came across it. An older co - worker of mine bought the gun from the estate of an acquaintance of his some time back. My co worker is more into guns used for deer hunting, sporting clays and the like. He is ready for another sporting clay gun and asked if I would be interested in looking into the value of this piece as I am kind of know as "the gun guy" in the shop. While I primarily focus on Ithaca Guns but welcome a new challenge and enjoy learning about something new. I was raised around investment grade guns particularly various WWII guns; so while I do not know everything about everything I did have an idea as to where to begin. These are the steps I have taken up to this point.
-When I first looked over the gun I was rather suspicious. First off I expected to see the standard parkerized finish that most military guns had received since the early days of WWII certainly not that wonderful S&W high polish blue with case hardened hammer and trigger. Second off the gun is in a very high condition especially as in regards to the finish; not very typical of a gun that had been used by the military. Lastly I had never previously noticed target configured pistols as general issue.
-I did however notice the the gun appeared rather untouched. Screws where in good shape, stocks not chipped out, roll stamping is nice and sharp, no evidence of a re blue.
-The USAF stamp looked to be done before bluing and not touched up, a sign of authenticity.
-So out came the blue book. This gun in this condition $400-$500. Add 300% for USAF marked. Hmm, might be on to something hear, but remember investment grade guns are the ones people want to fake.
-The next stop was Google. Found out that all USAF marked S&W revolvers from the 50's & 60's started out life with a commercial finish and where re-finished with a parkerizing as needed. Large numbers of them where some form of the Combat Masterpiece.
-Also found that 2000 15-2 guns with 4 inch barrels where shipped in '65 to the Air Force.
-Okay time to check the serial number. The list I found indicated a late 64 production. At this point things where starting to sound plausible to me.
-Now I tell my self one must remember when dealing with investment grade guns you need to cover all of your bases. Books, and other references are great resources. So are second opinions; better to be a new guy then to make a bad investment / pass off a fake.
-I have found forums to be a great resource for a number of things everything from Juke boxes, pinball machines, trucks, Ithaca Guns, and yes of course S&W. I found 2 or 3 other examples on this forum of this configuration. The features and stamps where consistent with this example.
-From there I joined and posted this gun in order to get more and more experienced opinions. I am glad I did. You folks have been friendly and helpful. Thank you for reminding me of one of the most basic rules to gun collecting GET DOCUMENTATION!!. I guess I really should of known that by now or at least you would think so.
-I mailed off the form for a factory letter as well as the check yesterday. I will be waiting for the letter patiently (well impatiently truth be told) and am hoping to get a response by fall.
- I will update everyone when the letter comes back but I expect that the letter will most likely confirm that this weapon is the "real deal".
-After the letter comes in the gun will very likely be sold on gun broker, in part so that every one that has expressed interest will have a chance to buy it.
I can't say enough how much fun I have had on this journey, and thank you so much for your kind words and input.

By the way, mine is a Model 15-2 from 1964, K 559288, not too far off from yours, and it's a documented USAF contract gun.

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John

Very nice. I complement your picture taking skills. A lot better than a red pool table!

I totally get why the KTX38 (aka Model 56) as a USAF contract special made only for the USAF brings a hefty premium but honestly do not understand why a standard $500 Model 15-2 with a USAF roll stamp is suddenly worth $1500 .

USAF M&P Airweights had special grip medallions but in so far as I can see the USAF stamped 15-2 is a standard catalog item sent from S&W to various air bases placed in lockers and occasionally issued for guard duty or target practice until some were auctioned off as Govt surplus.

Please dont shoot the messenger not trying to instigate a revolt just dont understand the 150% premium for a standard cataloged item with an extra rollstamp when identical guns stamped WPBPD or BSO bring no premium or are worth less than non marked ones.

Engine49guy, it's mostly due to the rarity of seeing one on the market. Few and far between, especially in great condition.

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John

Honestly I understand they are not commonly encountered but my point is the USAF is just an added rollstamp on a standard cataloged item just like a WPBPD , BSO or FHP rollstamp which add no premium whatsoever.

Plus there is a metric gazillion former USAF SPs who would love to have one of the genuine articles.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

It depends on what you are in to. For military collectors this is a cool thing. Rare hard to find stamp and yes the value is in the stamp and not so much the gun itself. Lots of folks like me just love low serial numbers. I have an Ithaca model 37 with sn 794. For me the only thing better would be to find one with a lower number. Even though gun sn #1 and gun sn #2014 would be basically the same gun with a different serial number #1 would be worth a lot more $$$$.

Don't forget the former USAF OSI Agents who also want one. Albeit, there are fewer of us, but those of us who carried one would like one also.

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Keep Shootin' and check 6

...and I am one of them!

I watched them dump about 400 of these into the gulf of mexico about 60 miles offshore out the back of HH-53 back in the early 80's? Who would have thought they would be worth anything.

I purchased a S&W in the mid sixties but mine is not an Air Force weapon. The front sight on this Weapon is longer than mine. Plus I have put new rubber handles on my weapon. Mine has bluing on it.

WOW. I have heard horror stories of de-milling guns a number of times, and it still shocks me every time.

Looks the ones I used to carry. I don't recall any of them looked as good as yours. That's first class! Many were horribly abused and neglected, often to the point of unserviceability. .

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

It's what the market says....not those who may or may not want to buy this. Look how many potential buyers popped up on this thread in just a few days.

Plus....it's an Air Force handgun. That means it was never used!

(OK, just couldn't resist a little inter-service dig! )

You don't happen to remember coordinates do you?

"WOW. I have heard horror stories of de-milling guns a number of times, and it still shocks me every time."

I'm guilty of doing that. When I was at the USAF Gunsmith Shop at Lackland AFB, I de-milled (actually, inerted) a dozen beautiful-condition Model 15s for use by ceremonial honor guards, etc. It involved plugging the barrel with weld and welding up the guts. There are many of these revolvers still in storage (at Anniston Army Depot, if they haven't been destroyed already), but it's not likely they will ever be released for civilian sale.

When I separated from the USAF at the end of March, 1965, I stopped at the Hornady factory in Nebraska. During my tour thru the factory I was told that the bullets being made at the moment were for an air force contract for 38 caliber bullets - something like a run of 50,000. I had not known the Air Police was using 38 revolvers, since all the handguns being used where I had been stationed (Duluth AFB) were 45 ACP Colts.

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Jim Sebring

And as we all know, a metric gazillion is much larger than a standard or U.S. gazillion. Same as with the metric blivet.

I do hope you'll let us know what the letter on that sweet 15-2 says.

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Oh well, what the hell.

The M16-A2 conversion process would bring a tear to your eye too! Taking a beautiful EARLY Armalite, 4-digit s/n, M16, & "upgrading" it to 3 rnd burst,,,and hand "Xing out" the "Fire" and cold stamping B, U, R, S, T beneath it. Destroyed some incredible guns.

The Cop Armory always have a couple of M15's for K-9 blank training...beat down, broken off rear sights, stored in old ammo can,,,only cleaned prior to an ORI. Each base usually has a couple, so I've seen about 6 in-service. I really don't remember seeing any of them with the U.S.A.F. on the left side of the frame, and it would have stuck in my memory. They were probably later contract guns. The M9 Beretta was already in the racks.

prior to an ORI............

Boy it's been a while since I've heard that

As requested pictures with the stocks off. Yes the serial number does match. Thanks.

My guess is that this gun brings 2500 on Gunbroker.

Do a penny start with a reserve. 7 day auction. This works MUCH better than a HIGH first bid requirement.

Guess the guy in the SWCA up above REALLY won't be able to understand things NOW. Maybe the SWCA will school him on some things.
500+150 per cent. haha. Send me a truckload at THAT price.

Remember, clean it off good of all oil. Then WAX it with Ren wax or Flitz WAX, not polish.
( The pic you see of the other pristine one up above is waxed)

Then take pics in natural outside light. Stocks on and Stocks off. Get all angles and forcing cone/ top strap.

That will bring great money. I don't think you will have to run that one more than once to bring the money.

I still figure 2500..... 2k at least. I have sold worse for far more on there. It could go as high as someone with deep pockets will go.

That will be a fun one to watch!

Good luck, and I hope your friend gets far far more than he ever would have realized for it!

Well, the check for the letter has posted, so I at least know they have received the request form. Can't wait!

While waiting for the letter to come in I decided to take the above out on July 4th (no better way to celebrate independence day then going to the range). The gun has been fired before, and I do not believe two cylinders worth of firing will hurt anything. I fired one cylinder in single action, and one cylinder in double action.



This is what I found.
-Balance and heft where perfect.
-Very little recoil.
-The wide target style trigger are very nice.
-The trigger itself was smooth and broke nicely.
-Very accurate gun with great sight picture.
-I need to work on my double action trigger pull skills.

I am going to start keeping my eyes open, I am considering acquiring a run of the mill example of a Combat Masterpiece or Combat Magnum to target shoot with.

The letter came in with Tuesday's mail. As expected the letter confirmed that the piece is genuine. I have the revolver currently listed in the classifieds section of this forum. Thanks for your help.

GET IT LETTERED!
The letter I got for mine said it brings a 300% premium over standard model 15s, and that was in 2002. I consider mine a treasure.

As someone else said, DON'T SELL IT unless you are merely a collector, in which case auction.
Although, I believe some of the people who responded to your post would make better likely owners than "just anybody" on Gunbroker.

I've posted pix of mine on the forum but I have no idea how to find them.

You do have a gem there! good luck with it.

Semper Fi!

Keep in mind that this was the basic USAF sidearm for at least 25 years. MANY more were made than stated in your first post. I've seen that figure before and it is misleading. It must have referred to just one shipment.

Well I am in a bit of a standstill. Some folks say you can't find USAF marked guns anywhere, others say they are everywhere. Some folks say value is north of 2,000 others say south of 1,000. I am interested in selling the piece at a realistic and fair price, but am some what unsure of what fair is at this point. I have it listed in the classifieds with an optimistic asking price with the thought "you got to have room to come down, you can never go up". To date no interest has been shown. Any thoughts?