I recently purchased a model 14 at a gun show, and I just noticed these marks. They are right up near where the barrel is pinned.






It's marked 14-4, s/n indicates it shipped in 1977.

TIA

I've been all through the Standard Directory of Proof Marks and I'm just not seeing them.

They look like ordnance marks to me. Perhaps this gun was shipped to the military. We know that both the Army and the Air Force bought some Model 14 revolvers. I don't know specifically about Model 14-4s, however.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Could it have something to do with single action/double action since this is a double action 14?

I don't think so. In my collection are two verified factory SAO Model 14-3 revolvers. I also have a substantial collection of regular DA Model 14s of various dash numbers, up to and including 14-4s. None of them have markings like this.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I just found this thread that shows similar marks and says they are Belgian.

Scored Nice586 8 3/8ths - Belgian Proof Marks

Yes. The flaming bomb part looks the same. So this is probably correct. Thanks for letting us know.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I'm still curious to see if anyone has more information, and I'm wondering if this changes the value of this revolver. Thanks

I did a Google image search for "military firearm flaming bomb proof mark C inside". It appears to be Belgian. But the mark inside the "bomb" is an L apparently.
8mm Mosin Nagant Restoration Project - Page 2

Awesome, thanks. I wonder what the other mark is? Harder to describe that one.

I have a S&W 686 that I purchased at a Rod and Gun Club in Germany back in the 1980's, it also has additional proof marks similiar to one of your marks. I was told that any foreign weapons sent to Germany (for re-sale) had to be inspected and that's were applied the proof marks. I don't really know if this adds any value to the weapon. Will try and post some pictures later this week. Hope this helps.

Great, thanks.

I think the other mark is a Y with a star. Might be representative of a year? I saw a chart for Spanish proof marks that said Y represented 1979. Don't know if it's consistent throughout Europe. Can anyone verify that?

The "flaming orb" is the Belgian proof for a foreign gun imported there.
(Star) Y is the inspector's I.D., Leon Chesnoy or Francois Delsaux depending on the year.

Thanks, Jim.

Any idea as to whether this increases the value over a model 14 sold in the US?

My first guess would be foreign proof marks, likely European as they tend to stamp them all over the visible parts of the gun.

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No life story has happy end.

Proof marks would be a detriment to a collector, but I'll bet it still shoots straight.

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Eccentric old coot

i would say as well proof house marks. I have a 586 from 1984 with german proof house, Nitro proof, and a year stamp. I dont understand why people say it lowers the collectible value, i think mine is the coolest, its journey'd around the world and back to the states. mine has 3 stamps on the frame as well as nitro proofs on the barrel and cylinder.

I don't know about later, but when I was stationed in Germany 1978-1980 guns that were sold through the rod and gun clubs weren't required to be proofed by the Germans. During that time I bought two M29's, a M25, a M63, a Remington 3200 and a Remington 700 Classic, and none had any proof marks other than factory ones. One thing that was done that was curious was on the 3200 Skeet gun. The barrel was originally marked "for 2 3/4" or shorter shells", and the "or shorter" had been struck out. Guns sold to German citizens did have to go through the proof house and got marked. I had a German shooting friend who had quite a tussle with the proof house over a Remington 40X target rifle because it had a tight chamber, and they wanted to ream it to standard. He eventually won the argument, but I don't know how.

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Tom
1560

Ok, thanks. It would be good to know that it's worth more than the $450 I paid for it. I'm not much of a collector. This gun, like most of my other ones, will be stationed in the house somewhere, ready to be used just in case.

I'm a shotgun guy more than a Smith & Wesson collector. Learning to read proof marks is critical for shotgun collecting especially if you plan on shooting the gun. Most country stamps will give you bore diameter, chamber length and choke dimensions. They give you maximum service pressure and if it was proofed for nitro or blackpowder. It is very useful information.

It is a Belgian proof stamp for an imported firearm on your 14.

I wouldn't deduct much off the value for proof stamps. I think it is kind of interesting when a firearm has traveled some. Who here wouldn't pay a premium for a WWII German vintage proof stamp on a Smith & Wesson.

A re-import stamp that is required by the ATF is a bit of a killer. Some importers are pretty good at hiding them but that electro pencil stamp down the frame or barrel can be really distracting and ugly.


Here are a couple of links that are worth bookmarking

http://www.shotguns.se/html/proof___marks.html

and more specific for Belgian proof stamps

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Here is pic of the proof stamps on a shotgun I hunt with. I know many wouldn't shoot an old Damascus barreled shotgun but this one the bores measure as they did 100 and ten years ago. The gun was originally proofed with a pretty stout nitro powder load and it likely never has seen a blackpowder cartridge. Proof stamps tell a story worth learning to read.

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Bill Bates

Thanks Bill. I appreciate it. So now I know that it was proofed in Belgium by Francois Delsaux. This gun is going to be a shooter. I can't afford to be a collector right now since I'm not working. LOL It's just nice to know that it's still worth at least what I paid for it.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Debbie

Did anyone suggest that the L mark in the oval probably means Liege, for where the proof house is?

Such marks are usually German or Belgian if on modern guns. Some other Euro countries allow gun ownership, inc. Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and the Czech Republic. But one sees their marks less often, except on Italian guns imported here.
Of course, we see more CZ guns now that used to be the case...and we see a lot of the fine Sako rifles. (Finnish)

A dealer will probably tell you that the foreign marks lower the value. But he may try to sell the gun for more, because they're there, so that makes it "rare". It's all about marketing. A dealer will usually cheat you as much as he can, esp. if a pawnbroker.

You are correct to stash the gun where it may be needed. A home invader will fall to it as quickly as if it didn't have added proof marks. And, yes, you can shoot Plus P ammo in it. But it'll loosen the gun sooner if you do that a whole lot. Use standard ammo for most practice and don't worry about it.

I've seen German and French gun magazines and both featured S&W products. They do get around.

I recently purchased a Model 31-1 manufactured in 1986. Marked on the bottom of the barrel on the flat above the ejector rod is the importer name WISCHO along with the Liege proofmark (a cursive L inside a flaming bomb, same as on Snapdragon's Model 14) and an A with a star above it which is an inspector's stamp. There is another stamp in the same area that I just figured out is a cursive, underscored Y which is the date code for 1986. The Liege proofmark is also on the rear of the cylinder and on the bottom of the frame just forward of the trigger guard. It was in the original box but there were no added labels or stickers indicating a foreign retailer for example. The seller told me that it came back from Germany with a US serviceman that had purchased it there but I think his story is partially suspect since the marks are Belgian and not W. German.

Interesting. Maybe the seller is not so good with geography.

I shot this model 14 for the first time today, and it is a great shooter. I also had a gunsmith acquaintance look at it, and he said I "did good".