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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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Old 09-26-2014, 11:55 AM
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Default Smith&Wesson through the roof these days.

Seems like everything Smith&Wesson pre lock era is going through the roof on prices.Guns,stocks,boxes,tools and papers.Is this going to level out and possibly bottom out?Or is this going to continue to climb to an all new level of expensives collectables?
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:56 AM
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I can only hope so!!
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:12 PM
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It will level off at some point, and maybe even go down.

But yes, prices are getting a little nuts.

I am glad I got what I got, when I got it.

May not be getting anymore at this point.
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:47 PM
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The S&W market will fluctuate just like every market. Im in the stock market everyday. My 2 cents, the S&Ws are a fun hobby. You shoot them, clean and appreciate. Buy what you like and sell. Dont be afraid to sell and buy right. Just pass the stuff along. Im just south of 70, I have been giving my two sons the guns they like. They are neat to own, but they are a commodity that can be liquidated for a purchase or a little buffer for upcoming expenses . Yes, they are going up, Mod 10, 36,31, and 28s. Go buy a 41-1 short. Fun to shoot. My 2 cents. Mike 2796
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:02 PM
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(1) Revolvers - remember tulip bulbs?

(2) Value from your dollar today - used, especially police surplus, 3rd generation automatics.
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:14 PM
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They have been undervalued a long time. The classic series which doesn't even compare is 800-1000.
JR
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:27 PM
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Who's driving g the price up? Those that put them in the safe pull them out once a year with their white gloves on pet it and put it back. Not those that buy them to shoot but still take care of.
JR
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:09 PM
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WOW, sounds like somebody has his panties in a wad because some folks like to collect pristine examples of guns and keep them that way for future folks to enjoy.
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:36 PM
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Honestly,and it's just my opinion,and I could be wrong.Why can't Smith go back to making basic blued revolvers with wood stocks? Doesn't even have to be P&R,just basic old style shooters from 25 yrs ago.Cant tell me there is not a market for this to be worth their while doing it.
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:41 PM
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(2) Value from your dollar today - used, especially police surplus, 3rd generation automatics.
Shhhhhh! Ya gotta stop telling people that. Too many folks know the secret already.
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:59 PM
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Hello Mr. Redfield, I feel that the "panties..." comment is a bit strong.
The S&WCA fraternity is composed of a myriad of people that appreciate the mechanical arts. I appreciate the S&Ws that are un -fired that live in the safe and also those Mod-10s on the seat of a C-10 Chevy at the farm.
I have both. Both of these extremes bring a great deal of joy to the owners. Best, and good hunting, Mike 2796
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Old 09-26-2014, 05:04 PM
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I look at Gun Broker and sometimes I gasp at the reserve prices they ask for stuff. Then I take a breath and look again and see that no one is buying at that price. The same thing at gun shows. If you are looking for investment guns in these places, then you are going to be disappointed. The same can be said of the big auction houses. Unless you are a die hard collector and you are buying a piece to fill in a collection, not withstanding the price, there are no values at these places. You can still find an odd buy at the local gun shop once in a blue moon but you have to put in the leg work. We, (I), buy guns because I have a morbid fascination with them. When it comes time to invest to make money, I look to other avenues.
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Old 09-26-2014, 05:09 PM
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IMO it has to do with the fact that the older ones - pre MIM/Lock - are better and in spite of the propaganda otherwise, people have come to realize that fact.

So, the new ones are expensive and the older better ones have caught up in price.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 09-26-2014, 05:34 PM
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I have been in the S&W family for a little over one year. When I started out, I wanted the best examples I could find (w/box and papers if possible). I found about six in that category. Then I made the mistake of shooting a friend's 4" M29. I am one of those people that have sold fine Smiths on Gunbroker and had people buy my guns at prices generally around $300 to $400 more than I paid for the gun.

My FFL lists the guns at a "buy it now price" that I think is crazy high. Every time he gets a call from someone that has been looking for just that gun, and they pay a premium for the gun.

Seasoned S&W people say it is not a matter of paying too much, as it is a matter of buying too soon.

My current collection stands at 15 "N" framed guns. Most are M29-2s. I purchased a nice M57-1 this week (thread is listed in the 1960 to 1980 section). My current guns are still nice, but they travel to the range with me ever chance they get.
I appreciate those who buy "collector grade" revolvers and put them away. I thought I was one of them too. I quickly found out I wasn't.
I enjoy each and every one of mine now.

They are not making these old guns anymore. The demand seems to be steady.
These older guns are like Corvettes. Would you rather have a '63 split window coupe or and '85 Vette. Both are Vettes, but one will always hold it's value. Ain't free enterprise GREAT?

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Old 09-26-2014, 07:06 PM
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Going up steadily, but still far behind Colt...
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:01 PM
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I just get upset when you drive the prices up then complain about it. Nobody is going to enjoy it sitting g in your safe. You can use a gun and not abuse it. My 19 I bought in 82 and carried 10 years shot 50,000 rounds though it and still looks great. Don't complain about the prices. I will pay what it takes for me to get a fine gun and enjoy it without abusing it.
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:29 PM
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Bevis.................he said "panties"
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:41 PM
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The ones that really seem to go through the roof pricewise are the 95%+ examples. I am still finding decent prices on shooter level examples, especially among the K-frames which are my favorites. I think that sites like Gunbroker are allowing those with lots of disposable income to easily get what they want. I watched a nice Model 27-1 last week that went for $2400, gun only. I put in a $1200 bid not expecting to win but it surpassed my expectations by far. 98% and up guns are just not in my budget, which does not really disappoint me. I like guns with some been there, done that.
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:44 PM
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Anything the public at large regards as an investment will be subject to asset inflation.

The Federal Reserve has printed trillions of dollars in currency since 2008 and those dollars must go somewhere.....
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
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The ones that really seem to go through the roof pricewise are the 95%+ examples. I am still finding decent prices on shooter level examples, especially among the K-frames which are my favorites. I think that sites like Gunbroker are allowing those with lots of disposable income to easily get what they want. I watched a nice Model 27-1 last week that went for $2400, gun only. I put in a $1200 bid not expecting to win but it surpassed my expectations by far. 98% and up guns are just not in my budget, which does not really disappoint me. I like guns with some been there, done that.

That 27-1 far surpassed "nice" in my opinion. Not to mention the -1 aspect. A 6 1/2" 27-2 in like condition would have surpassed $1,200 I think - But hey, what do I know.


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Old 09-26-2014, 09:24 PM
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I'm betting that most collectors that have pristine safe queens that they only bring out to fondle and show off, also have a safe full of shooters too.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:49 PM
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I like my pre lock stainless S&W that I carry and shoot. Also like my model 41 and model 18 that I have a lot of fun with. My collectble and rare revolvers and my safe queens are slowly getting sold or traded.
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:15 AM
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I browsed my LGS the other day. I found out every pre model K38's was priced from $795 to $950. The latter models are priced $495/$595. But every pre model k series revolver I look at online in my area are all priced the same way. The pre loc n frames are priced up to $750 to $1,500 online.

My thoughts are the pre model s&w revolvers will increase price wise. The early ones will bring much more. With the colt python prices going out of sight from $2,500 to $3,900 lately I think some of the more rare older pre model s&w revolvers will be soon to follow price wise. I don't see it leveling off at all. I give it till March of 2015 to judge it to see where the prices will go. I think in six months it should be a good indication. I firmly think the prices may go so high the sales may become stagnant. I don't think it will level off. But anyone who wants one will pay the going rate. It's still the demand vs price.

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Old 09-27-2014, 09:09 AM
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I have mixed feelings about certain S&W's bringing the prices they are now. I guess it's a good thing that some of the items I have had for a while may be worth more now than what I paid for them but there are lots more that I'd like to own. Not so much as an investment but because I just like having them and current prices prohibit it.
I'm more of a collector than investor when it comes to our beloved Smith & Wesson.
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
I feel that the "panties..." comment is a bit strong.
Well Mike, I felt that

Quote:
Who's driving g the price up? Those that put them in the safe pull them out once a year with their white gloves on pet it and put it back. Not those that buy them to shoot but still take care of.
was a little demeaning as well. I have both shooters and safe queens and enjoy both but I don't point fingers at folks who enjoy either passion.
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Old 09-27-2014, 11:31 PM
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I have my little 60's never fired early models stay in the safe. My model 15,64,66 and newer model 60-357 get used often. The 15 and 66 are 0lder models but I want to shoot them. Doesn't allow me much fun for my money if I don't enjoy them. Like I say I'll save a couple but enjoy the rest. Of course my collection isn't vast. Same way with my Rugers, lots of fine revolvers there too
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
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Why can't Smith go back to making basic blued revolvers with wood stocks? Doesn't even have to be P&R,just basic old style shooters from 25 yrs ago.Cant tell me there is not a market for this to be worth their while doing it.
I don't think it would be a big enough market. Sure, there are plenty of us older shooters who appreciate a well made revolver from yesterday, but not enough to make it worth their while. I know a bunch of younger (25-40) shooters who have no use for the guns I like. They are in the "black and plastic" crowd, and the guns I like are dinosaurs to them. That's who the gun companies are targeting, just look at all the companies that are putting out plastic pistols now compared to 10 or 15 years ago. The production cost has got to be quite a bit lower than a finely machined steel revolver or auto.

We have to remember that most gun companies are like Hollywood movie companies. Who really cares about quality when you can make lots of money selling **** ?

Now, I know there are younger shooters that like older guns, but not too many.

And I also know that most of today's plastic pistols aren't really "****" , but when I see one next to a nice Model 27 or a BHP, that's how I see them.

Rant over!
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:22 AM
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I think I've changed some of the plastic crowd (my kids friends) thinking toward revolvers after letting them put a few hot loads down range from my 27-2's. Don't think they had ever handled a revolver let alone shot them. Always get a lot of woe's and holy ---- out of them.
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:59 AM
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That's my experience too.

When they see how accurate and powerful a revolver is, they can't wipe the silly grin off their faces.
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
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Who's driving g the price up? Those that put them in the safe pull them out once a year with their white gloves on pet it and put it back. Not those that buy them to shoot but still take care of.
JR
I'd say you've got that a bit backwards.... those that buy to put them in a safe only to look at, aren't buying "shooter" grade guns, they are at another level and price range and usually not the ones in direct competition for what you and I want.

Shooters are the ones buying... and not just any shooter, it's "Baby Boomers"... a lot of 'em, now at the stage of life and financial standing where they can now afford to buy the guns that they've wanted but couldn't in their younger days, while raising a family and sending kids though school.

And I have to plead guilty to the above... the nest is empty and it's my turn now.

I'm close to retirement age now and I've buying like a drunken sailor for the last 5 years, before I head into retirement, while I still have the higher pre-retirement income that comes with still having a job.

The upturn in prices is not a recent trend either, they've been steadily on the rise for years... I joined this forum in 2002 and posts lamenting about the rising prices of S&W's were a regular topic back then.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertJ. View Post
I don't think it would be a big enough market. Sure, there are plenty of us older shooters who appreciate a well made revolver from yesterday, but not enough to make it worth their while. I know a bunch of younger (25-40) shooters who have no use for the guns I like. They are in the "black and plastic" crowd, and the guns I like are dinosaurs to them. That's who the gun companies are targeting, just look at all the companies that are putting out plastic pistols now compared to 10 or 15 years ago. The production cost has got to be quite a bit lower than a finely machined steel revolver or auto.

We have to remember that most gun companies are like Hollywood movie companies. Who really cares about quality when you can make lots of money selling **** ?

Now, I know there are younger shooters that like older guns, but not too many.

And I also know that most of today's plastic pistols aren't really "****" , but when I see one next to a nice Model 27 or a BHP, that's how I see them.

Rant over!
Your post made me a little sad, because what you said is the reality of the current gun market.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:38 AM
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Some want a particular S&W. My preferred carry gun is the non-magnum M649. Around here one don't just walk into a gun store and pick out the M649 you want. Usually it's months of checking around. When a nice one shows up you drop the needed cash on the counter because it will not be lingering in the display case for long.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:41 AM
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i think a lot of the younger folks are getting into them. they're realizing the quality of these fine guns. polymers are great, but dime a dozen. even the common smiths like m10's are getting high.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:16 AM
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If a decades-old revolver is in pristine condition, you can thank someone who carefully kept it that way! I don't know about white gloves, but some folks are really into protecting and preserving the past. It may not be something I do, but I appreciate that somebody does it.

I think the "been there, done that" factor is way overrated. What most of them have been there and done is ride around in a holster and get their stocks banged on car doors.
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:24 PM
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I've been looking for a cherry M 58, blued. I don't even care if there's a box, Gunbroker winning bid prices are through the roof. Yeah, I know they're not making them any more. I may as well jump in before I really can't afford one.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:32 PM
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I don't know when these crazy prices will stop but every form of collectible goes through peaks and valleys even collector cars. I think there will be a fall off and price correction and it may be dramatic at some point. No one can predict the future on items not made anymore but at some point it peaks and often it falls after the peak.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:43 PM
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I've got my pretty collectable, though will enjoy it as a shooter as well.

Other than that I have no problem owning new guns that I can use hard and carry frequently with no remorse over some scratches or finish wear.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:49 PM
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Just Sayin. Don't complain about prices if you contribute to driving them up. I know shooters looking for 65 3 inch to carry and can't get one because everyone they see say collectors want these And it will cost you such and such.
JR
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:13 AM
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Just a prediction. Start watching the price of Ruger DA .357 Mags. I know that sounds silly, but just look back. Colts are gone and S&Ws are entering that area. With the Mod-28 approaching the status and price of Mod-27s,
what USA mfg. DA is left to shoot, Ruger? Just my opinion. And yes I have a few in the desk. All nice shape and very well made. Dont jump on me for jumping the S&W ship. Im not. Im still buying and looking, put the old affordable shooter S&W is disappearing. I have a feeling there are more Ruger die hearts out there than there are S&W fans.
Please jump on ththis post. Best, Mike 2796
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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The only new S&W revolver I have bought in many years was a 642 NON LOCK. At that time the dealer had 3 in stock 1 non lock and 2 with the lock.

My guns are all shooters, granted I do my best to keep the wear & tear to a minimum but my guns have turn lines, might show some honest holster wear, some have aftermarket grips (original ones in the boxes the gun came in). Heck some have even went afield and converted deer into venison. My purchased early wooden boxed 70s model 29 8, 3/8 got 1 to its credit my 4’’ 29 has a few. Not to mention I used them both in club events (bowling pin matches)

I have purchased a few non lock Smiths and 1 very nice Colt Dick Special at a LGS and here on the forum and to tell the truth I do not see anything new out there that catches my eye. I wish S&W would take note there are many like me out there!

I note many others in my area seem to be that way as it’s getting harder to find a GOOD used Smith Rev. at a decent price while the locker models languish in the dealers display cases.

Of course many more people are interested in the myriad of bottom feeders out there. The ration of display space in most gun shops I go in is about 75% new and used auto and 25% for all revolvers and that includes Single actions (mostly Rugers I might add)
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyimo View Post
I don't know when these crazy prices will stop but every form of collectible goes through peaks and valleys even collector cars. I think there will be a fall off and price correction and it may be dramatic at some point. No one can predict the future on items not made anymore but at some point it peaks and often it falls after the peak.
This happens when people who have money over pay for something because they do not care about price and they want it. It hurts the average Joe because those $400 guns they used to afford are now $800+. It may come down a little but pretty much this is going to be the norm. GunBroker is not helping our situation either. Maybe for now on people should sell their guns to someone they know so it will stay as a collectible and not some piece of merchandise. I'm not against people buying things and turning around and selling them to make a profit, all I'm saying is us gun owners should choose wisely if we want to keep this hobby affordable.

James
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:00 PM
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Cool A quarter-century of collecting

For me, my "collecting" has always been determined by what I liked AND what I could afford. I started buying firearms in 1982, and after getting the fundamental shooters I wanted, I finally got around to getting some "show pieces" by 1987. For the first 15 years of my "collecting" days, the vast majority were purchased on lay-away. Then as my income allowed, I began to splurge and put some on the plastic every once in a while (basically, make my own layaway plan), or, bought them outright. I ALWAYS MAINTAINED A FLUID COLLECTION, pretty much nothing I owned was not up for trade (or sale to a friend) if something I liked better came along. But I read up on Smith's & Colt's on a regular basis, and even used to travel around with a 1st edition SC of S&W.

Now as the prices for most pieces I'd really like are in excess of $1K or $2K, I just leave them alone. I'm content with what I have, and still keep an eye out for a good deal when they come my way.

Sad to say but the internet, the large number of new collectors (some of who hoard, which is their prerogative if they have the cash-flow), the higher national population and lower number of old guns (by neglect or being kidnapped away in a safe somewhere - admittedly a couple are in mine), the good old days are gone unless you have thousands and thousands of dollars to pursue your collecting interests (that is, if they include P&R N-frames, Pythons, etc.).

Luckily, I have some nice examples of I, J, K, L, & N frame Smith's, and a nice sampling of Colt's. But it took nearly three decades to do it.

Guess the message I'm trying to share is do your homework, buy what you can afford of what you know you like, and just don't worry about the stuff that's out of reach. I'll never own a Walker Colt (or a SAA at this point), but that's okay. Many of you youngsters may find as you get older it doesn't matter as much anyway.

As a last note I'd also like to share one quick point, if our country & economy ever really hit rock bottom again like in the 1930's, or worse, a Python or Registered Magnum won't be worth much more than a .357 Ruger

My .02 anyway. Happy hunting fellas!
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:08 PM
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The same old adage holds true; It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

From what I have seen on GunBroker, it is not so much the pristine guns, 100%, that are selling. It seems the price is well above blue book for the nice quality, 80 to 95%, shooter grade firearms. This is evident with the S&W revolvers. We are talking about auction prices.

You even see police trade-ins flying out the door of some internet gun stores at 80 to 90% quality prices for 60 to 80% quality handguns. Here we are talking about fixed used gun retail prices.

It has me questioning the blue book.
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:41 PM
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Lamar, question the Blue Book, use it for production numbers and a quick reference. Just my opinion. Good hunting, Mike 2796
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lamarw View Post
The same old adage holds true; It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

From what I have seen on GunBroker, it is not so much the pristine guns, 100%, that are selling. It seems the price is well above blue book for the nice quality, 80 to 95%, shooter grade firearms. This is evident with the S&W revolvers. We are talking about auction prices.

You even see police trade-ins flying out the door of some internet gun stores at 80 to 90% quality prices for 60 to 80% quality handguns. Here we are talking about fixed used gun retail prices.

It has me questioning the blue book.
I have been questioning that for a long time. IMHO sometimes it appears to be right on but way too many times its way off.

As a car guy I know about the Kelly Blue Book and other car references like that and it appears our gun blue book is going that way.

The dealers ONLY use it when it’s in their favor. They will say you’re------ is worth this much to me as per "The Book" They tend to laugh at you and have many reasons why the price you got from ""The Book" is way off.

Our Blue Book appears to be at its worse when collector value brings up the price. My many times in LGS both as a customer and just listing to a transaction bears this out ITS ALWAYS IN THE DEALERS FAVOR.

I now only use our Blue Book and other sources as a guide, you really got to do your homework when pricing a gun for sale (either open sale or as a trade in) or when you ready to spend some money on a purchase.

This forum is one of the best guides on S&W and sometimes even on other companies prices. USE IT!
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:43 PM
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Never mind.
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:56 PM
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Ok here we go.

$1000 = decent buy
Under $1,000 = good buy
Under $750 = very good buy
Under $650 = excellent buy, so buy it quick.
Under $500 = even a blind squirrel can find a nut under a walnut tree.

My rules to go by unless it's in nickel.

Ever go to a blackpowder gun show?

They make the pythons look cheap.

In 50 to 100 years where will the s&w prices be?

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Old 09-29-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laketime View Post
Seems like everything Smith&Wesson pre lock era is going through the roof on prices.Guns,stocks,boxes,tools and papers.Is this going to level out and possibly bottom out?Or is this going to continue to climb to an all new level of expensives collectables?
Good questions!!

Here are a couple more:

The supply is what--------fixed, declining, increasing?

The demand is what---------fixed, declining, increasing?

I guess I have nothing more to say.


Ralph Tremaine
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  #49  
Old 09-29-2014, 01:43 PM
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Default Bad Time To Invest?

I started to collect "K" frames the past 2 years and have really grown to enjoy the hunt in the usual places online being that in our town of 100K with the nearest city being Portland Oregon the opportunity is poor. Most folks with any PC knowledge, such as myself can manage to download photos and list a firearm. Our local gun shows are a joke and folks I have spoken to say much the same about the larger shows elsewhere in our state. I digress.

My point being that I have done the majority of my purchasing on GB as I find they offer the largest selection but from my limited experience I can say that prices have hit the wall unless GB sellers expect to sell to strictly upper crust collectors in the future the average person has been close to being priced out of the casual collecting. I collect shooters in as good as condition as possible without showing any abuse to the gun. My only criteria is a decent set of matching grips, the box and others being a bonus if affordable. I especially like M18's 17's and have picked up a few nice examples. I also purchased the beloved M617-6 10 RD. as I am not annoyed by the I.L. or mim parts that seem to cause such a uproar.

I recently move on to collecting "J" frames and this is where I have gotten jammed up, I would imagine due to the production and the fact that if it has CC potential the price goes up dramatically. I was checking the M34-1 2" .22 L/R on GB and there are a total of 4 being offered at a starting price of $900
to $1200. I should note they are in pristine condition with the entire package being offered. None the less that is where I fall back and start looking at a new M63 for $650 or so. As I am not a fan of the pocket rocket .38's and 357's I was still thinking a Ruger (my first) LCR or the S&W 43C which I read conflicting opinions on. I somehow had the idea of carrying a pocket .22 L/R being a nice option where I walk in the woods during the winter months as it can be secluded. As for having my first choice being the M34-1 2" as I prefer a older double/single action I think that I my have to wait until the dust settles.

The more often I see the exorbitant prices on the older blued Smith's re-listing due to zero bids the more encouraged I am about the prices going down.

I really enjoy the older blued revolvers in the 60's-70's range even with a little handling/character to them. If anyone has advice as to other sources for procuring them please let me know. Maybe a trip to Oklahoma is in the cards.
Best Regards
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:51 PM
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Mr. Tremaine, you are a man of few words, you have condensed about a 40 page paper into a few lines. Bravo, and I salute. Mike 2796
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