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01-20-2015, 01:25 PM
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Model 13-1, 3 inch, orignal everything, unfired question
I have a Model 13-1, 3", early 1977, round butt, unfired, in 99.9% condition, possibly a full 100% depending on how picky you are. It's unfired, original grips (not serialized), original box, paperwork, original unused cleaning kit, the whole package.... it's essentially a 38yr new old stock if you want to look at it that way. Also has as second set of grips by Craig Spegel.
My question is, will firing it hurt it's resale value? I ask because I realllllly want to shoot it but I don't want to hurt it's value (not that it's going to help me retire early or anything).
I traded for it, and I don't really know what I could get for it. I've seen later 3" 13- models going for around $800 well used. I have yet to see something compareable to what I've got though.
I went through with the trade thinking it would be my first safe queen, but I'm not one to hold onto things just to have them. I like to use what I own, and if I'm not using it it drives me nuts.
Just looking for opinions on if the value would be compromised or not. I can post pics as well.
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01-20-2015, 01:30 PM
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Pictures....
I know some people will say just shoot it, some will say I'd never shoot it, I'm really just looking at if it would hurt the resale though.
Thanks
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01-20-2015, 01:35 PM
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Shooting it will lower its value to a collector this is 100% fact IMHO. From a collector vs a shooter is where you will get your top $$$ if you are looking to sell it.
It is a valuable gun. It is pinned and recessed and in mint condition. You need to carefully consider shooting it IMHO. I love shooting my 13-3 but it had already been fired and was not in the same condition when I acquired it.
Last edited by WVSig; 01-20-2015 at 01:38 PM.
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01-20-2015, 01:41 PM
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I can't speak for you, of course, but for me, if I were to purchase this from you, it would be fired and carried, both carefully and with intentions to keep it in as good a shape as possible while still using it. That is my favorite pattern of revolver. I have a Model 10-5 also in three inch, and it is one of my favorite guns. I foolishly sold a Model 65 three inch once upon a time, and I regret doing so. Certainly your revolver should command a bit of a premium price since it would be like buying a new gun. The question is to determine it's realistic "new" value at today's prices and money value compared to when it was first purchased. Looks like it will qualify as like new in the box, and possibly unfired (other than at the factory). Since you are not the first owner, not sure if you can confirm that without any question, but it's condition should bear out that fact. You have a very nice example here and it deserves the very best of care, but for me it would become a very nice example of a fired and used weapon. I wish I had it ... might not be able to afford it, but I sure would like to have it!!
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01-20-2015, 01:53 PM
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Thanks for the quick replies. It's kind of what I figured, but appreciate the shooter vs collector perspective.
My thought is that I need to find a 2nd one to shoot and keep this one tucked away for as long as possible, but they are hard to come by. It's well cared for, stored in a bore store out of the box, humidity controlled and all that (although I live at altitude and we don't have issues with humidity).
When I got it the first thing I thought of was going right to the range, then common sense set in and I started thinking it through (hate it when that happens).
I'm the third owner I believe, first owner is the unknown, 2nd owner who I got it from kept it in a safe since the early 90's purchased it from owner #1 and said neither of them had fired it. It's pristine on the inside, there's zero indication it was ever fired other than maybe the factory. I've run a few patches down the barrel and chambers and not a speck comes up so I believe the previous owners are true to their word.
Another pic...
Last edited by rev424; 01-20-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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01-20-2015, 01:58 PM
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I picked one up recently. 13-3 paid $575 OTD. Not pinned or recessed no box no goodies. First and only one I have seen in years.
Last edited by WVSig; 01-20-2015 at 02:10 PM.
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01-20-2015, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSig
I picked one up recently. 13-3 paid $575 OTD. Not pinned or recessedno box no goodies. First and only one I have seen in years.
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That's awesome and a great deal too. Congrats.
I see them on gunbroker from time to time but they disappear quickly.
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01-20-2015, 02:12 PM
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If you are as concerned about value as you sound, then you should sell the revolver and buy something you will not feel guilty about shooting. I have owned enough safe queens, and though they were beautiful to look at, they served no other purpose than as modern art. Most importantly, if I were to die sooner than later, not a single firearm is coming with me, thus I choose to enjoy what I have while I can.
I traded into a shooter grade 13 a while back, and after swapping in a factory bobbed hammer, and cleaning the poor neglected little feller up, it has become a very nice carry gun.
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01-20-2015, 02:43 PM
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Does the front of the cylinder show every other chamber fired? Or has it been cleaned that well. Run a swab around the hammer well, to see if there is any powder residue there. I didn't even realize there were 3"RB 13-1s. I didn't know they made them until the -3s.
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01-20-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc5aw
If you are as concerned about value as you sound, then you should sell the revolver and buy something you will not feel guilty about shooting. I have owned enough safe queens, and though they were beautiful to look at, they served no other purpose than as modern art. Most importantly, if I were to die sooner than later, not a single firearm is coming with me, thus I choose to enjoy what I have while I can.
I traded into a shooter grade 13 a while back, and after swapping in a factory bobbed hammer, and cleaning the poor neglected little feller up, it has become a very nice carry gun.
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Solid advice right here, and it would be my advice as well.
You bought it new, never fired it. It's what, ~40 years old now? I would not fire it, at this point. I'd sell it to a collector and get another one in nice condition that has been fired.
If it has not been fired in all this time, it is a collector's piece in my opinion.
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01-20-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbraswell
Does the front of the cylinder show every other chamber fired? Or has it been cleaned that well. Run a swab around the hammer well, to see if there is any powder residue there. I didn't even realize there were 3"RB 13-1s. I didn't know they made them until the -3s.
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There was a small amount of residue around the hammer well, I'm assuming from factory test firing since it was so little. The front of the cylinder shows no signs though.
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01-20-2015, 03:20 PM
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Appreciate the feedback.
I guess this brings up the question of value. I haven't seen another 13-1 3" myself, only 13-2 or up that have been well used, with no box/paperwork/etc. I've seen those go for about $800. That makes me believe value for mine would be around $1K or just over. Any thoughts?
another pic... (can't figure out how to put more pics in one reply using an ipad, sorry folks)
Last edited by rev424; 01-20-2015 at 03:23 PM.
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01-20-2015, 03:25 PM
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Shoot it, shoot it and shoot it some more. This gun is begging to be shot! Being a collector myself I've had a few pistols that were not fired or fired very little and I've fired them all with no regrets.I personally think that why not enjoy them while you have them. Guns are designed to be used. To have a 30-40 year old gun that has not been used is a travesty. Just my opinion. You should always do what you want with your guns since they are yours.
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01-20-2015, 03:36 PM
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It is worth what you can get some one to pay you for it. Local markets vary and timing has a lot to do with price when it comes to the sale of a collectible. It is all about finding the right buyer or buyers.
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01-20-2015, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rev424
Appreciate the feedback.
I guess this brings up the question of value. I haven't seen another 13-1 3" myself, only 13-2 or up that have been well used, with no box/paperwork/etc. I've seen those go for about $800. That makes me believe value for mine would be around $1K or just over. Any thoughts?
another pic... (can't figure out how to put more pics in one reply using an ipad, sorry folks)
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Contact David Carroll directly and inquire as to whether he would consign it for you.
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01-20-2015, 04:16 PM
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If you want to try your hand at owning a safe queen, this would be a great gun to do it with. It will not go down in value. If and when you grow tired of looking at it and not shooting it, you can sell it, pocket some $, and go buy a shooter grade.
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01-20-2015, 05:31 PM
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A few years back, I set about attempting to locate a nice 3" M13.
Very little luck, but I DID find a 3" M65 and have enjoyed shooting the daylights out of it.
Just a thought.....
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01-20-2015, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSig
I picked one up recently. 13-3 paid $575 OTD. Not pinned or recessed no box no goodies. First and only one I have seen in years.
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That type of luck requires that you buy a round for all patrons at the bar, maybe two. These as any other 3" S&W revolvers are really on fire these days. you would almost think like most other things tangible or otherwise, recessions, real estate, you get it, these out of production Smiths would be cyclical but I for one would not bet against them flattening out or ever loosing value. That is what make them so unique in my eyes and also allows me to continue my addiction unabated. A lost cause.
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01-20-2015, 06:23 PM
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I just saw a 13-3, 3", in decent condition, starting at $750, BIN of $900. They are hot indeed.
I have another 3" S&W (586 L-comp) that I shoot the ever living projectiles out of, which has helped silence the voices in my head telling me to go shoot the m13... for now. If it wasn't for all the original extras, I'd have already shot it, it's just the complete package which makes it a slightly different matter and hence my conundrum in trying to balance today's want vs. tomorrow's need.
Thanks for the thoughts and advice, great forum, much appreciated.
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01-20-2015, 06:38 PM
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My thoughts are its only unfired once. You have that nice 586 , so you have no need to shoot the M-13. I`d buy a shooter grade and sell that fine puppy to someone who really likes safe queens, for a tidy sum.
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01-20-2015, 07:43 PM
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You probably can't get as much for it as some would like to think they can sell such guns for, but if that -1 variation is really rare, I think that'd attract collectors.
You can advertise it at $1,000-1200 and see what happens. Some buyers just have a LOT of money... If it sells, buy a M-65,which is a better carry gun due to the stainless construction. And the stainless barrel throat is believed to wear less from a comparable amount of firing; more erosion resistant. Or, so an article in, "Shooting Times" said years ago. More resistant to cracking from hot 125 grain .357 loads, too, but don't use them, anyway. Winchester's 145 grain Silvertip will crack 1200 FPS from a three-inch gun or be close. I have it on good authority (local cop accounts) that this is a very effective round. You don't need 125 grain full power .357 ammo in a K-frame .357. It abuses the gun too much and isn't required for effective terminal effects.
Don't sell the Spegle grips until you try them on the replacement gun. Those are jewels that you should keep. The smooth finish on the grips are easier on your hand in a gun this size than are checkered ones.
Bear in mind that you can carefully polish out small scuffs or scratches on a stainless gun. A worn blue job is a worn blue job! I am not a fan of nickeled guns.
You'll get different views on this. I can only offer what I've said. But you have a nice gun, whether you shelve it, sell it, or shoot it.
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01-20-2015, 07:46 PM
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Shoot it! As long as you take care of it, it's value will still appreciate. It's like not having fun with your wife to keep her pristine for her next husband - go play with it!
Last edited by CH4; 01-21-2015 at 12:12 PM.
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01-20-2015, 07:49 PM
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I believe you could sell that for $1000, don't shoot it!
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01-20-2015, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corp
A few years back, I set about attempting to locate a nice 3" M13.
Very little luck, but I DID find a 3" M65 and have enjoyed shooting the daylights out of it.
Just a thought.....
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Ooh...NICE gun!
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01-20-2015, 08:46 PM
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As others accurately stated, firing it will lower its value. The true 99.9% NIB collector may give 50-100% more than for a 98% gun. On top of that, yours is the first 13-1 3" I have ever seen...non-pinned but recessed 13-2s and 13-3s and -4s are common by comparison.
"I like to use what I own, and if I'm not using it it drives me nuts."
I guess the question then becomes which would drive you the most nuts...having a fairly rare NIB gun you can't shoot, or selling it and never being able to replace it? If I didn't need the money I think the regret would sink in about 10 milliseconds after the buyer forked over the payment. Good luck in your decision.
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01-20-2015, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
I guess the question then becomes which would drive you the most nuts...having a fairly rare NIB gun you can't shoot, or selling it and never being able to replace it? If I didn't need the money I think the regret would sink in about 10 milliseconds after the buyer forked over the payment. Good luck in your decision.
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Perfectly Stated!
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01-20-2015, 09:09 PM
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That is one I wouldn't shoot. But, it is your call. Leaving it unfired, will bring more $$$ for sure.
Last edited by 629shooter; 01-20-2015 at 09:10 PM.
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01-20-2015, 09:19 PM
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First, see my signature line below for my general opinion. Second, I have faced a similar situation with an unfired 19-2 snub. My solution was to buy a shooter grade 19-4 and carry it daily. The dash two is still in the safe and will stay there. I have exercised a few other unfired revolvers, but that one goes to the kids in the same shape I got it. Maybe you, too, can find a way to pay for a later model and have the best of both worlds - almost.
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Last edited by Peak53; 01-20-2015 at 09:21 PM.
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01-20-2015, 09:45 PM
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I wouldn't shoot it. If you can't live with that decision, sell it. How many other 100% 13-1, 3" revolvers will you come across? There are plenty of other Forum members, including myself, that won't struggle with this decision. As others have said, there are other 3" 13's that you can shoot all you want.
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01-20-2015, 09:56 PM
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Lots of great thoughts, thank you.
I think retaining as much value out of it and handing it off to a collector for as much of a premium as I can get is priority, so it'll remain unfired. I don't really need the money, but I have things it can go toward, like more ammo for the guns I do shoot. I love shooting 357 and like experiencing it through different platforms, so I can look for a shooter and go that route and let this one go.
Agreed on keeping the spegel's, he isn't taking orders right now and these are mint from 20yrs ago.
@Dr. Lou... haha, that was a good one
Last edited by handejector; 01-21-2015 at 11:05 AM.
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01-20-2015, 09:56 PM
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There are many things in life we can't control. But one of them is to enjoy the things we have now. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. You acquired a nice piece of history and should enjoy it. Even the guys who have collector cars still take them out for Sunday drives. 50 years from now who's gonna know the difference. What would you rather have, a show piece, or memories of shooting it with family and friends. It's only a gun. Enjoy it.
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01-21-2015, 12:48 AM
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Very Nice! I just picked up a nice 13-3 3in Nickel for $425.00 out the door. It will go to my grand children. I will enjoy it first. I would not shoot one in that condition.
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01-21-2015, 01:43 AM
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I have a 13-3 in very nice condition. It gets carried occasionally, and shot regularly. A very sweet gun.
I don't know what I would do in your situation.
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01-21-2015, 06:49 AM
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3" K-frames are very desirable as carry guns. I have a 3" Model 13-4 that is my primary carry revolver. If you sell it, odds are that is exactly what the next owner is gonna do with it. Its just a question of who shoots it first, you or the next guy?
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01-21-2015, 09:22 AM
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My advice is to NOT shoot it. Keep it or sell it but do not shoot it.
Either way, find another used one, or a similar 3" Model 65, and put those excellent Spegels on that. Shoot and carry that! It is an ideal carry piece.
If you are near South Carolina come over and I will let you shoot mine. I already have Spegels on it to boot.
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01-21-2015, 11:03 AM
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Sell it to a collector. Buy a shooter.
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01-21-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
Sell it to a collector. Buy a shooter.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...or 2, or 3.
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01-21-2015, 01:18 PM
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My thought's....shoot it and let the heirs worry about how much they going to get for the old man's gun.
Gary
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01-21-2015, 10:04 PM
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The 3" K frame may be close to the perfect carry gun (the Ruger Speed Six is right up there).
I prefer stainless for carry as I have nuclear fallout quality sweat.
If I had a mint 13 3", I'd sock it away and know it will be worth more by every passing day.
And, I'd buy a slightly used and dinged up 65 and wear it out. I actually have a contingency plan for that. Another 3" 65 in the safe.
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01-21-2015, 10:44 PM
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Stretching my memory a bit here, but wasn't the 13-1 3" the FBI issue for a while, and then most of them were turned in for their next iteration of weapon and then so many of the 13-1s were destroyed?
I have the 4" 13-1 square butt from 1977, P&R, with some holster wear but it is a fine shooter, sweet trigger.
It would be great to get a Jenks letter to see where yours started out.
IMHO, if you are a gun / revolver / S&W aficionado then keep it boxed and don't shoot it. Its value won't go down. If you feel the need to shoot something, worn but good revolvers are not that expensive. Sit on it for a while, then think on it again and see if it still holds the attraction.
I bet you have gotten offers already.
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01-21-2015, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martya
Stretching my memory a bit here, but wasn't the 13-1 3" the FBI issue for a while, and then most of them were turned in for their next iteration of weapon and then so many of the 13-1s were destroyed?
I have the 4" 13-1 square butt from 1977, P&R, with some holster wear but it is a fine shooter, sweet trigger.
It would be great to get a Jenks letter to see where yours started out.
IMHO, if you are a gun / revolver / S&W aficionado then keep it boxed and don't shoot it. Its value won't go down. If you feel the need to shoot something, worn but good revolvers are not that expensive. Sit on it for a while, then think on it again and see if it still holds the attraction.
I bet you have gotten offers already.
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For the short time I've been shooting (only a few years), I've instantly gravitated to S&W revolvers and have had a couple, and since this trade early this past summer, I'm really likeing the bull barrelled revolvers, the aesthetics are just so nicely balanced and the K/L frames fit my hand nicely. I appreciate them for their functionalty and art form. I'm fairly set on the plan to sit on this for as long as I can and try to find another 13 or 65 to shoot.
My research has led me to understand the same as you mention, that the 3" 13-1's were in fact the last FBI issued revolver (maybe some 13-2, 13-3's, that I'm not sure though) prior to going to semi-auto's, and they're hard to find because of that... either severly worn from use, turned back in, or hidden away in safes like this one was. The historical significance is another reason I'm slowing gaining an attachment to it. It's not just an old NIB revolver due to that fact.
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01-21-2015, 11:41 PM
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Let me know if you would be interested in selling the Spegel Grips.
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01-24-2015, 01:58 PM
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Have you shot it yet.... LOL
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01-24-2015, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rev424
For the short time I've been shooting (only a few years), I've instantly gravitated to S&W revolvers and have had a couple, and since this trade early this past summer, I'm really likeing the bull barrelled revolvers, the aesthetics are just so nicely balanced and the K/L frames fit my hand nicely. I appreciate them for their functionalty and art form. I'm fairly set on the plan to sit on this for as long as I can and try to find another 13 or 65 to shoot.
My research has led me to understand the same as you mention, that the 3" 13-1's were in fact the last FBI issued revolver (maybe some 13-2, 13-3's, that I'm not sure though) prior to going to semi-auto's, and they're hard to find because of that... either severly worn from use, turned back in, or hidden away in safes like this one was. The historical significance is another reason I'm slowing gaining an attachment to it. It's not just an old NIB revolver due to that fact.
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That's a honey!
There are some thoughtful posts in the thread.
I'm on the don't shoot it side, which I rarely am, because of the condition of the gun and the fact that you have the entire package. As someone else said it'll only be that way once. Right now what you have is a preserved time capsule of what S&W was shipping at the time. From a historical perspective that adds value.
As far as the FBI connection, it might be worth a call to Mr. Jinks and possibly a letter. It's hard to believe that the entire package could have made it out of the agency complete, but anything is possible.
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01-24-2015, 09:31 PM
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I haven't shot it yet. I got it out of my system putting a few hundred rounds down range with my 586 yesterday instead.
I'm thinking of sending in the request for a Jinks letter, I have the request form in hand, although the cost seems kind of high I'll probably bite regardless. I'm not as familiar with the process, but to get even something in writing about it's origin would be nice and most likely help with an eventual resale down the road. I imagine this wasn't ever distributed to the agency, but rather just purchased by a civilian through the proper channels. I admit it would be pretty cool if it was originally an FBI unfired firearm, I'm sure that would further increase it's value, but I'm not betting on it.
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