Please find attached, a dream of mine for a long time. I served as a Border Patrol Agent for over 23 years and for 18 of those years, I carried the same S&W model 19 .357 early 4 screw model. When I entered the Patrol, you were usually issued a S&W heavy barrel .38 or the Colt Border Patrol Model .357 (which they only produced for a few short years). The senior agents carried the Model 19's and the only way a short timer got one, was to be on the seniority list, so when an agent promoted out to another agency, he left his model 19 behind and the next agent on the list could trade in his pistol for the 19. My turn finally came & I got mine. Later, when they started issuing model 66's, I decided to keep what I had. IMHO, no finer LEO sidearm could compare to the 19 although others might have their own opinion. I came upon this early 19 & bought it, thinking it would be nice to have one since the Patrol made me turn mine in when I retired. Then, I decided to have it engraved. I contacted John Pease when I saw a sample of his work on this site & saw his web site of his many projects. If anyone ever entertains the idea of having a piece engraved, I highly recommend John who you can contact at johnpeaseengraving.com. I hope you appreciate the fine work that he does as much as I do.

Well, for some reason, my photo attachments did not come through. Don't know what I did wrong.

I don't know either but I hope you figure it out. I am anxious to see your engraved Combat Magnum.

OK, let's try it again. Well, all I get is error & download of file failed. Guess will try again in the morning as I do want to share the beautiful work on this revolver.

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That is a beautiful gun! Congrats!

that is a beautiful revolver absolutely beautiful

Larry,

I strongly share your opinion of the Model 19. I carried the same one for many years in an NMSP uniform. My first issue was an old Model 28, but I lusted for the Model 19's that were being issued as replacements. As a rookie, I did not qualify for one of those. About a year later, I had become acquainted with the department amorer, and requested a Model 19 if possible as soon as he could manage the deal. It didn't take long! I carried that same revolver for the duration and wish I could own it now. When the transition was made to semi autos, in due time the inventory of revolvers was offered up for bids as a whole. I have no idea where they went. I found a pretty nice Model 19-5 at a gun show later and bought it ... still have it. Lots and lots of memories tied up in that particular Model for me too. Old timers were allowed to continue to carry their revolvers after the transition to semi's was made and most did just that.

I really appreciate the work I see that has been done on your Model 19. That is a fitting tribute to what I also consider to be arguably the finest LEO handgun ever carried. It's beautiful and something to be very proud of. Thanks for sharing this with us.

__________________
So long ... Ken

A friend of mine came up with the perfect adjective for the Model 19: "Delightful."

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Pudge, The 19 was & is, a dependable sidearm that never gave me a problem in all the years of contact from Texas sand & dirt, not to mention the banging it took in making some arrests. I became a K-9 handler after I transferred to the Northern border and carried a Glock in order to carry rounds that were not injurious to the dog's hearing. I missed the double action of the Smith as you knew exactly when to squeeze the little extra after coming on target. I do see a renewed interest in the wheel gun these days, which I appreciate. It is the price of these new revolvers that give me pause, but that's true of everything these days. I am still trying to resolve the problem of downloading more photos but it is a mystery to me why it won't download more as it took the first one.

Are those Kuracs or presentation S&W stocks?

Larry,

It could be that the pictures are too large to be accepted here. You might try to downsize them. Somewhere there are instructions about this that tell you the maxium size allowed. We'd like to see more pictures for sure!

I spent a good many years in the 70's working in the Alamogordo area of southern NM. Like most of the area north of the river in West Texas and southern NM, there were many thousands of square miles of basically uninhabited desert lands. Radio contact was very sketchy over much of it. Generally, if you needed a helping hand, it was down on the end of your unoccupied arm!! Because of the proximity to the border, there was a large presence of Border Patrolmen in the area, and there were also 24 hour a day stationary checkpoints/roadblocks on US 54 north of El Paso, on US 70 between Alamo and Las Cruces, and in other places. We worked closely with the Border Patrolmen there. I spent a good bit of time at those checkpoints when things were slow since I could stand and watch as trunks and other places were opened to check for unauthorized passengers. If other contraband was found, I came by the knowledge of it legally so it was a win/win situation for all of us. Plus, we all had the benefit of having some good help around if things got exciting. As you probably know, my agency operated single occupancy howl cars as a matter of course and we covered very large areas of patrol, and there was generally only one officer covering a patrol or sometimes more. I got really well acquainted with several Border Patrolmen, and they were always glad to send someone my way if I really needed some backup out there by myself. It was really comforting to know they were ready, available, and willing! Some of my best friends wore the same uniform you did! And yes, there was plenty of sand, dust, and dirt as well as plenty warm temps in West Texas and southern NM!!! Like you said, that was never a problem for the Model 19. I quickly changed the grips on mine to a set of Pachmayers because of the damage to the wood grips caused by door facings, seat belt buckles, and rolling around on the pavement. Mine had plenty of evidence of hard use when it was turned in ... no abuse, at least not intentionally, of course, but it was also well maintained and it was a tack driver when you did your part with that great trigger!

I was a firearms instructor in the NMSP annual academy for many years as well as district rangemaster for quarterly qualifications. There is just no telling how many rounds that old Model 19 fired over those many years, but it was still plenty tight and accurate when it was retired from service. Man, I wish I still had possession of it!! I wouldn't change a thing about it's looks if I did ...

You might check the forum FAQs or rules to find out more about the correct size for the pictures. Thanks again for your posting here. You have stirred many, many good memories, some of which involve seeing some familiar faces of several Border Patrolmen I don't think about as often as I probably should. There were a few situations we were involved in that likely would have turned out differently if we had not had each other's help!

__________________
So long ... Ken

I don't share the same thoughts. For many decades the rumor mill has been the m19 rattles itself apart if you shoot it a lot. It's not built strong enough for the 357 Magnum round. I been hearing this since the 70's.

"The rumor mill".....Nuff' said.

Loose screws?

Hi Larry:

Congrats on commemorating your career by having your favorite sidearm engraved. I am sure this will be a family air loom for a long time! I agree with your assessment of John Pease's talents - an exceptional artist and one of the top engravers. John just finished the forth piece he did for me and it passes all my expectations. (I hope to post photos soon)

Bob

They are Keith Brown grips

Bill,

I've heard that "rumor" almost all my life, it seems. I will say that my guess is that of the thousands of rounds fired through my duty carry Model 19, about 3/4ths of them were .38 Specials. But that leaves a few thousands of .357 Mags over that were also fired through it. It was always carried with the Mag rounds, and thankfully, not many of those were fired during serious social encounters. But I did not and would not carry a round that I had not fired enough of to be thoroughly familiar with the results. My life depended on that. And as I said, my 19 never shot loose nor did it ever require a trip to the armorer for repairs or tuning up.

I have fired the 60 round PPC qualification course many, many times with Mag ammo to demonstrate to myself as well as to recruits passing through the Academy that you could clean that target by our scoring rules as well as with .38 Wadcutter ammo. Those recruits were also required to fire a few courses with mag ammo to demonstrate the very noticeable difference between the two types of ammo and to let them know the difference in how it felt, how it recoiled, and how much louder the sound was. I campaigned long and hard that we should qualify with what we carried. Financial matters of State being what they were meant that "practice" ammo purchased at bid was the least expensive available. You know what that was!

I was thrilled when jacketed Mag ammo began to be issued. That old 158 grain lubaloy bullet that was the standard issue duty load in the beginning leaded barrels horribly, which was another reason not a lot of it was fired at any time. The lead was too soft for the velocity achieved and leading was the result. I've seen enough lead pushed out of the barrels at the end of the days shooting exercises to cast several bullets if it had all been gathered up and melted down!

I know there have been instances where the forcing cones have cracked on some K Framed .357's. No question about that. But every instance I am aware of involved the use of 125 grain jacketed ammo that was loaded to pretty steamy velocities. I've never been a fan of light bullets for duty loads at any time, and this knowledge further strengthened my my choice of 140, or better yet, 158 grain Magnum bullets. And I can assure you that there has been a great deal of change in the ammo that is available in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum ammo since the late 60's. I still have several rounds of Super Vel ammo from the 70's. Talk about a change in ammo for these guns!

I will say this: Having fired many thousands of rounds of both kinds of ammo through many K Framed revolvers, and having been present while untold thousands of rounds were fired through them during many years of Academy firearms training and quarterly qualifications over even more years, I have never personally seen or known of any Model 19 with a cracked forcing cone. I agree that the L Frames were a definite improvement over the K Frames for Magnum ammunition. But I have never had reason to be worried about carrying a Model 19 and depending my life on it to do it's job. If there is a weak link in that chain, it would be ME! I have noted the possibility and have always made it a point to carefully inspect my revolvers for any sign of any crack or loose screws or any other thing that might reduce it's reliability if overlooked. Maybe I was lucky, but again I state that my duty weapon never required attention other than being kept clean, properly lubricated, and fired regularly to keep myself in good practice to use it for it's intended purpose.

I have also seen revolvers that were destroyed because of less than good judgement or proper attention paid by those who reloaded ammo for them. I have personally never understood why reloaders try to get about a hundred feet per second more velocity than the book says is safe for a maximum load. I have seen those rounds fired, and they are hard on good guns! It is for that reason that the only rounds I would or will ever fire knowingly are factory loaded rounds or ammo that I have reloaded myself, which have been many in times past.

Thankfully, I managed never to double load one with powder or fail to load powder in a round. I have seen low quality wadcutter rounds stick in the barrel of a revolver that was not far from my face while standing beside a recruit and hearing the "pop" instead of a "bang" and manage to stop a second round from being fired behind it (if the cylinder wasn't locked up preventing that all by itself).

Anything mechanical can have problems. But it's my considered opinion that the large majority of issues with firearms are caused by the operator in some way, even if it is only because of HUGE numbers of rounds being fired as in the case of those who use those firearms in competitions. We came close to wearing out some of those revolvers that were used in the training academy for years, and some of them were given attention between times by the armorer. A few were taken off line at some point. But by and large, there were few problems considering the numbers of rounds fired. Sadly, many of those recruits only fired what they were required to fire after graduation. For some reason or other, they also seemed to struggle to meet the minimum requirements for quarterly qualifications!

__________________
So long ... Ken

Pudge,
Yeah, unlike today, the B.P. & local & state Police always worked hand in hand. If we stopped a drunk, we made sure that DPS/local Police were notified. Usually, as a rule, we rode 2 men to a unit but occasionally, we did work solo. Worked my share of check points and working 12-8 wasn't bad but standing on I-35 in the middle of the day with temps at 100 or above was miserable. Check point work was mostly tedious work, punctuated by moments of terror at times. The Northern Border was a different story. Always work solo which could be a problem because of radio dead spots due to mountains and that once was one of the those pucker times for me. Most of the time, my 4 legged partner was my back up and he was very good at what he did. Unfortunately, in today's world, the present political atmosphere, local agencies are not encouraged to assist those who enforce Immigration laws. It is a crazy world today and I don't think I could work under existing conditions. I loved law enforcement work and am fortunate to have worked in the time period I did. Like you, had many good friends from O/A's and you always could depend on back up from them if you needed it.
We love N.M. and were in Las Cruces area earlier this year. Love that country. I'll keep working at the photos but I just don't understand why it took one photo but none of the rest. I was just not cut out for this techy world.

Ok thanks for the explanation.

You and I have a lot in common with experiences as well as thoughts about how things were and are! I'm pretty sure I could not work under the conditions that exist today. There were few of us as it was and I can't imagine not working together as you mention. Yes, those check points could be long and boring and awful hot or cold. The pavement temps in southern NM would soak right through the soles of your boots and cause you to get off the road as quickly as possible!! No doubt it was a different world up north!! We didn't have walkie talkies or lapel mounted mics and we sure didn't have cell phones either in those days. You were definitely on your own many times. I worked a lot up on the mountain in the Cloudcroft area where radio contact was very sketchy. Dispatchers would usually call if they hadn't heard from me in a while, but till I got back out of the canyon I was in, I couldn't hear them either! A good dog would have been a comfort at time too ... and the Las Cruces area is indeed a nice one IMO.

Sorry about the picture troubles. I'm pretty much computer illiterate myself, beyond the ability to type pretty well. Got lots of practice with that typing out reports back in the day! Maybe someone else here can help?

__________________
So long ... Ken

OK, I have solved the problem ... somewhat. I don't understand why, but as I said, the techy world has passed me by. The photos I've attached are from John Pease the engraver, and for some reason, are acceptable for downloading. Anyway, you can see the talent this man has.

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Larry, that is a great piece of art and a fine tribute to your service. I also served and remember the days on the border and elsewhere where we worked hand-in-hand with the local agencies. I remember answering burglar alarms in the county because the Sheriff's Dept. didn't have a deputy readily available. Sometimes we did ride alongs. We had a great camaraderie.

I bought a couple of model 66's to use on duty because I wanted something I could pass down. My kids own them now with the provenance. My father had a model 19-3 that was privately owned by a PA in DRT. I now own it. It is in pretty good shape (just minor bluing wear) and is mechanically very sound and tight. You've made me think about maybe doing something similar, but then the kids or grandkids would have to fight over it in a few years.

kthom- I remember taking a Police Survival Seminar many years ago, and the instructor was a NM State Police Officer. He asked if there were any Border Patrolmen in the class. After I raised my hand, he said, "Well you and I are pretty much in the same boat. Your backup was just born and in 21 years he'll be an officer and can come to your assistance!"

Wow.

Some of you guys should really think about writing a book...or books. The stories you could relate....

Just wanted to say "thanks" from a 53yr old "pup"!

Larry,

My first issued handgun in the patrol was a used Ruger Security Six. When it shot loose, I asked for a different handgun. They wanted to issue me one of those Colts. The trigger pull on those was very loooong and heavy. I got a chief's letter to carry my personally owned model 28-2 which had been brush hard chromed. My wife gifted me the 28-2 and I carried it as a Deputy Sheriff before the patrol. As you know there was a rule that no agent could carry a chrome or nickel plated handgun (too flashy). The chief relented on the brushed hard chrome finish since it looked close enough to a stainless steel model 66. I carried that model 28-2 until I got my model 66's. I (now regretfully) traded the 28-2 off to another officer for a High Standard Victor. Do remember when we went from loops to speed loaders? Remember "Over 50 years of proud tradition, unhindered by progress!"?

John is an exceptional artist & craftsman & I am very pleased with his work. Looking forward to seeing your photos.

Again, brings back good memories, mostly of the good people I had the privilege of working around and with. Some jugheads too, and thankfully, I can kind of grin about them today as well! That quote from the NM State Policeman brings two or three to mind that could have certainly spoken those words. They were certainly true for us back then. However, I must say that those 21 year olds who are now wearing the uniforms evidently must not have grown up when we did or they didn't pay much attention to their raising. Things are much different today, and mostly it involves the willingness and grit and common sense to get the job done well. Not all of them, of course, and for that I am very thankful!

__________________
So long ... Ken

LOL! Truer words were never spoken!!! But that tradition was VERY proud .... I am thankful for the opportunity that I had to be a part of it! BTW, I learned to load quickly and efficiently from the loops and never carried anything else, although I had some speed loaders handy in the howl car just in case. Once I got something programmed in my brain, I was loathe to try to reprogram myself if what was already well implanted was working for me. That's the main reason why I still carry revolvers instead of semi autos, although I own some fine ones.

__________________
So long ... Ken

Mike, I do remember the Ruger's being issued to new agents and most were underwhelmed by it's performance. I do have a better appreciation for the new Ruger's being made today, though. Where were you stationed? I spent 16 years in Laredo Sector, at a back up Station in Cotulla. Raised our family there. Then 7 years in Washington state. Our oldest son followed in his Dad's footsteps into the Patrol and just recently retired as PAIC of Wilcox, AZ. He had three careers in the Patrol. He became a BORTAC officer and served twice in Bolivia, busting up cocaine labs, worked undercover in the Midwest busting smuggling cases & finished up in the supervision position. Hard to adjust to the quiet life after that.

Yes, like Pudge, I do remember the loops and trying not to get nervous under time, trying to reload at qualification. The speed loaders did help immensely later. Those of us in back up stations usually carried a round or two, of snake shot as you did come across a rattler once in a while following a trail. You did have to remember to remove the round in your loops when you went to sector, lest the Chief see you with the rounds, or your PAIC would be getting a call from the Chief as to why you were carrying them. I do miss those days!!

Seventeen years ago I was issued a Beretta 96D with 36 misfires that was not replaced until I got to my Sector. Came in too late to be issued a revolver, but by then they were either being issued Ruger GP-100's or S&W 686's. I was able to score from the main SFI at my old Sector 300 rounds of last issued load authorized by the BP, the Remington .357 Magnum 110 grain JHP. As a retired FOS once told me, great people stopper, but lousy at shooting a charging animal.

Gentlemen, I have and am very much enjoying this thread and very much appreciate your thoughts on the Model 19 as well as hearing about your service. Best, Joe.

Larry,

I got so involved with our discussion of times past and enjoying the memories that surfaced of those times, I completely forgot to say how much I enjoy seeing these pictures. The work this man did is excellent, and I know you are proud of it. You should be. What a great tribute to a fine revolver, a great and very worthwhile career, and hopefully something that can be treasured by future generations of your ancestors as a tribute to the man responsible for commissioning and getting this fine piece of work created. I, for one, really appreciate all that this represents, and I am especially proud to be able to relate to that. Congratulations!!

__________________
So long ... Ken

Well, it was my pleasure in sharing experiences with those who served in the time period I did. Hard to believe it is now considered the Old Patrol. A lot of water under the bridge. I came in a lot older at 32 compared to 21 year old's fresh from the military. The Patrol was run like a boot camp and they ran you everywhere in formation and when we went to the showers, my tongue was hanging out. I compounded my problems from the get go as I was in transition from shooting with my left hand to shooting right handed but I was able to make the transition and now am able to shoot with both hands.. Then you were immersed in confusing Immigration law and had to have a working knowledge of speaking & reading Spanish and had to pass a review boards on your ability. I was sweating bullets until I passed probation as I had quit a secure job, sold our home in the Midwest and moved my family to Texas, but it was a dream of mine since I was a kid to experience living in the west and still found parts of the old west in south Texas. I have never regretted a moment. It was a heck of a ride.
My fear in today's climate of reducing enforcement of Immigration laws and
thus would effect the Patrol, which has a proud history, steeped in tradition, would be a sad day to say the least.
It was my pleasure to share my model 19 with those who appreciate fine sidearms. Although I don't post much, I do enjoy this site.

You're killing me! Now I gotta shop for a 19!

I completed the USBP Academy at Los Fresnos, TX (111th session). Assigned to DRT for 6 years. Transferred to JAB for 6 years and finished as an Aircraft Pilot at DRT in 1998. I think I got out when the gettin' was good (and so I was told by some who remained).

Well, I wasn't too far ahead of you as I was in the 100th. You were in a good sector. My son's 1st duty station was Brackettville. He lived in Fort Clark Springs which was a neat place if you are a history buff. Robert E. Lee was Provost Marshal there for a while.I hung it up in 94 and things started unraveling after that. I am so glad I worked in a period where you weren't handicapped in trying to do your job. The days of being innovating in in catching the bad guys have since disappeared and if you don't work within the constraints placed on the agents, you are leaving yourself open for big problems. So sad. Honor First!