I have a 2.5" 19-4 that has 2 boxes through it in its life. It is the weapon on my CCW. I like the idea of a stout 125 grain h.p. For a carry load but that would dictate that I would have to shoot them extensively because I tend to shoot what I carry. It seems like good form to me. I have heard that these loads tend to crack m19 forcing cones. I have heard that they cause flame cutting as well but I am less concerned with that because it seems self limiting. I like the idea of a light bullet that won't over penetrate and is able to be driven to maximum practical snubbie velocities with a minimum charge of powder to mitigate muzzle flash. I have also found that I can beat 38+p velocities with 357 even with the snubbie.

There isn't a question in your post, but I'll assume you're asking about the veracity of .357 K-frame cracked forcing cone claims, and what lighter grain .357 round would be good for carry.

Since both of these questions have been discussed here extensively and repeatedly, I'll skip the details, strongly suggest a search for ample reading, and simply offer where I've landed on the issues:

After much inquiry, I'm thoroughly unconvinced of any forcing cone issues in a properly built, properly maintained .357-rated K-frame using modern defense ammunition, and have discarded any concern. I put quality .357 through my rated K-frames, I clean them after, and I don't worry.

This is especially the case for carry pieces, which are going to get used and worn, inside and out, anyway.

Flame-cutting is inevitable and, as you note, self-limiting in a correctly functioning revolver. I've never had damaged forcing cone.


To my research and use, the best lighter grain .357 defense ammo are:

- Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain hollow point
- Remington Golden Saber 125 grain hollow point
- CorBon DPX 125 grain hollow point
- Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain hollow point
- Hornady Critical Defense 125 grain hollow point

You Tube has some subscribers posting videos of bullet performance in ordinance gel. Don't know how consistent they are in regard to more official protocols (FBI, etc), but they are interesting to watch, nonetheless. I haven't seen any on the legendary Federal 125 grain SJHP, but the Speer Gold Dot, for example, was an impressive performer. The only high velocity round from the old days that I've watched on video, the Federal 9mm 9BPLE, seems to fragment, but otherwise cause a good wound channel, temporary cavity, etc, in addition to having an excellent street performance record. The only K-frame magnums I've ever seen that had unpleasant shooting characteristics, were thoroughly worn out 66s, once issued by the BorderPatrol, which issued hot 38 Special (probably .38 HD and the 110 grain +P+ Treasury load) and later 110 grain 357 duty loads (as well as the 145 grain Silver Tip if you wanted to buy your own), and required them to be expended, at least quarterly, in a 72-round qualification course. The again, I saw an issued Model 19 carried for 20-plus years that still ran perfectly. Modern bullet designs by companies such as Speer and Federal are engineered to perform in ways and conditions that engineers 25 years ago could only dream of.

They DO NOT tend to crack forcing cones. It's just a possibility between the individual gun, the ammo and the owner. There have been guys,who shoot nothing but 125 and never had problems. I believe there was even a guy who tried to destroy his revolver using 125 and it didn't work.

What us your understanding of "I tend to shoot what I carry"? Are you talking about 500 - 1000 rounds each time or are you talking about a box of ammo? For instance, the way I shoot it would be cost prohibited to shoot what I carry. Taking 500 rounds of Speer Gold Dots to the range each week would seriously hurt my wallet and there is no need for that. Besides you don't need exectly the same ammo. Practicing with range ammo will be just as good as long as the point of impact is the same

While this is a common topic, one thing I never see discussed here is whether modern ammo, with powder developments over the last few decades, still causes the increased wear that the 125-grain ammo of the 70s and 80s exhibited. Any comments?

As to the OP post, I've shot a lot of 125s in my 19s and they still look great, but it's not in the thousands of rounds. And, I load mine with W296, and while I get impressive velocities, they may not be maximum loads.

It sounds as though you have decided what is best for you and your gun. Cracked forcing cones have been reported (and pictured here). Cleanliness of the area (preventing buildup of lead and other residue, potentially increasing pressures) is highly recommended. Good luck.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I hunk the muzzle blast and muzzle flash are the concerns that drive people to 38+P more than wear on the revolver. Especially in a snubbie, where the velocity gain in proportion to the blast and flash is even less attractive than in the longer barrels.

I entered cracked forcing cone into the forum search and it didn't come up with anything useful. Would someone be so kind as to post links of forcing cone discussions so I may read them?
By shooting what I carry I mean 100 rounds a week or so.

Thank you all for your rapid responses, it makes sense that a dirty forcing cone would be more likely to suffer damage as there would be much more force imparted on it by a bullet that was unable to smoothly traverse it.

Try the Search Site/Google function, there are 853 posts using the term words.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I believe that a lot of the issue was the super hot 70s ammo as everyone was testing the limits of 125s and velocity ......... today's factory ammo isn't as hot..

For me with my 3" 66 or 65 with self defence ammo.......... shot placement is primary...... a quick second shot ranks, second...... raw .357 power ranks 4th or 5th.

If I thought I just couldn't leave the house;more likely the cabin, without full bore .357 power........ I'd opt for my 4" 686

Doc,

All I can tell you is that I carried the same Model 19 night and day for nearly 20 years and never had a problem. It had untold thousands of rounds of .38 Special through it and thousands of rounds of various .357 Mag ammo through it. It was a duty gun and I wanted to be proficient with it with the ammo I carried. I fired a few of the 125 grainers through it, but did not like them. I preferred the 158 grain ammo and so most of it was that load. I also tried a box of 140 grain loads and they weren't bad, but still preferred the heavier bullets. I never had a single problem with anything about that revolver. I wish I could have purchased it when they retired the revolvers.

I was a firearms instructor in the annual academy and was the District Rangemaster for quarterly qualifications during those years. I observed hundreds of Model 19's fire many thousands of rounds. I required the officers in my district to qualify once a year with Mag ammo. Would have required it more often but we didn't get a large issue of that. I can say that I am not aware of any of the service revolvers issued by my department that ever had a cracked forcing cone. It's possible, but I'm fairly certain if that had happened, I would have been made aware of it. Some of those revolvers were not taken very good care of, others were well cared for and some of them were fired much more than the minimum requirements. Others were not. I am aware that there have been documented incidents of cracked forcing cones. I was aware of a few that were shot loose because the officer who carried it thought he had to shoot maxium plus reloads in it all the time. Still no cracked forcing cones. No doubt it happens, but I think not terribly often, and I think the ammo used to cause that was probably a factor. Not many Model 19 owners will fire as many total rounds as I did during that periods. There are no guarantees, but I have absolutely no worries about the Model 19's that I own and shoot. Take this for what ever it might be worth!!!

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So long ... Ken