Donna doctored today. His office had a "Guns" (???) magazine with a a mostly green cover. There was a kind of rambling article on the .41 mag. cartridge. As I recall, a couple well known personalities who have passed on now, were big fans of this cartridge & were involved w/Rem. making the shells & S&W providing a revolver. S&W was even supposed to have sent 2 new guns for one of these gurus to take along on an Alaskan elk (???) hunt & delivered two to him in time for that. I failed to see or remember the time period depicted. Since the principals have passed, I suspect this was prior to 1980. I also failed to remember the model # for the S&W gun......M-57??? N frame was mentioned........

Question........are there S&W N frame guns (-2??) out there for this cartridge??? If so, that gives me another -2 gun to hunt for.

Fill me in on the high points here......?????

By the way, local auction provided me with another M-27 in superb condition. It is in a presentation box that has a green bottom interior w/gun lying opposite way from the blue ones I have........??? and it is a 2 latch box, probably for a 8 3/8 barrel rather than this guns 6.5.

PJH

I think a 57 and 58 are what you seek.

Got my 657 6in in 1983 never looked back

Attached Images

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The model 57 and 58 were S&W's first offerings in the .41 Magnum. They were offered in Blue and Nickel.

The 57 is similar to the 27 and the 29. A beautiful gun with a high end finish, multiple barrel lengths and all the fancy accoutrements. The model 58 was a no nonsense Police gun only offered in a 4" length. This gun has a Cult Following like the model 28.

Later came the 657, which is very similar to the model 57, except it is in stainless. Barrel lengths vary from 3.5" to 8 3/8" and even 8.5" versions. The 657 came with partial and full under lugs on the barrels. So some 657s have the same profile as a 57, some look like a bigger 686, so it just depends...

Also offered was the model 357, which is a .41 Magum Night Guard. A cool gun, and yes it is ironic that the Model 357, is not chambered for .357.

People who are into .41 Magnum swear by then, and think it is more versatile than any other cartridge out there.

Short version: Introduced in 1964 as an N frame service revolver for cops the Model 58 was a total flop in sales. Too powerful for most cops, too big in the grip for many, heavy, etc. Went under in 1978. I have one with a serial suggesting a 1972 date but letters as shipped in 1977. That's how slow the sales were. Inventory stacked up for 5 years.




The 57 was the deluxe sporting version with more options in barrel length and finish. The 41 is OK but why? Anything it can do the 44 Magnum does 15% better.





The 57 ended in 1982 and returned as the 57-1 the next year sans pinned barrel and recessed chambers. Lost a lot of panache according to many (like me). Still made in various configurations. I'm not sure why the 41 has so many fans or has lasted so long. But then, listen to me...I own two of them.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

there's an awesome 50 year anniversary thread on this subforum for the model 57. all you seek and more is therein contained, including pics that'll make your mouth water!

Be advised, the dash numbers for the model 57 DO NOT follow the same engineering change as the rest of the N frame guns. That being said, there are 57-2 and 657 -2 guns out there.

The 8 3/8" Mahogany case is the only one made with 2 latches. The type D case used from 1979-1985 has the gun pointing to the right which is opposite to the rest of the Mahogany cases. The green covering has been done by someone after the original covering disintegrated. This is a type D that I have recovered with blue cloth.

jcelect SWCA#LM723

What an awesome round. I'm a 44 mag guy all my life I like the m58 & m57 in 41mag.

Thanks, Gents!!!!!........ Glad to know that I may find a display boxed 57-2.......and, the box my latest 27 came in is identical to the one pictured above except the compartment lid is a black plastic looking affair which has all the earmarks of having a cloth covering removed. There is a S&W box rebuilder at many of the OGCA shows, I will get him to correct this one.......cant ever be original, so it may as well be corrected. What gun is correct for this box??? Will be another for me to get.........!!!

PJH

I have a 57 and 58 both in Nickle. My only nickle guns. The 57 came for sale near to me at a good price and when I decided to add a 58 I figured I might as well go nickle there too. I love these guns with the Cor-Bon 170grain HP's, you are definitely not undergunned and a lot less recoil than a .44.

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Jim
Many K and N Frames

PJH:

If you want to have your case compartment lid recovered, or the entire inside of the case redone/restored, the person that gave you the case information is who you want to contact. Many members of this board trust him for this very specialized service. The pictures of the results that I've seen have been terrific. I'd suggest you contact him rather than give it to an unknown quantity at a gun show - of course, being that you are both from Ohio it may be him at the show - LOL.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

Bob, Yup..........he is OGCA member, I see him at shows, although not every one....... Previous ones he did for me were picked up there. I dinked just a bit with the retainer on the S&W knob on the lid, I can see how the retainer works, but went no further. I will get it redone correctly.......now what gun goes in that box???

I got the magazine from the Dr. office......."Guns Magazine", Nov 2015. So.........this article is kinda fresh!!!! There are two illustrations, one is some off brand (???) in mat SS w/scope. A hunters guns, not for me. The S&W pictured sure isnt a -2 version........or at least I cant make out a pin at the upper front of the receiver.

Also says 41 mag was developed in 1963, & lists the first serial as S277750. Same as a M-29, but doesnt give it a model #. Gun/cartridge was promoted by Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith & Skeeter Skelton. Article is written by John Taffen,........unkown to me.....article starts on page 82, finishes on page 81.

PJH

terry

The pinned barrel on the Model 57 was discontinued (along with the cylinder counter-bore) with the 57-1 engineering change (1982).

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

Don't drink the .41 Magnum Kool Aid! It's a cult, much worse than you're "normal" S&W fanatic!

Here comes Koolaid!

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Hey PJ
Your 57-2 would have been built after 1988 and there were no presentation cases shipped with any gun at that time. The presentation cases in use at that time, the type E, were sold as an after market items.

This is a type E which was introduced in 1985. The type D liners you have were shipped with many 25-5s & 629s, but any -2 N frame(except the 57-2) might have been shipped with a type D case!

Side note about the model 57!
When then mod 57 was introduced in 1964 the factory used a special type liner.

The covering is a velour type cloth. This type liner was used on the mod 57 only and for a short period of time. Many people find these cases and think they were recovered.
jcelect SWCA#LM723

jcelect......... I sent you an email in regard to sending the box in question to you for correcting.........not received an answer. Will shop for a 57 (-2??) & correct box at Nov. OGCA to start with. I may have your card here.......in among 2000 others!!!!

PJH

Agreed.....I drank it!

An 8-3/8" 57 or older 657 is very high on the "buy on sight" list for me. By all accounts it really shines out of a longer barrel. Though if I stumbled on a 3" one for the right price I wouldn't toss it out! For whatever reason I don't care for 4" revolvers much.

That isnt correct. My first year 1964 Model 57 is in the S2390XX range. The Model 29 was introduced in the mid 1950's, 1956 if memory serves me.

Oh I don't want to turn this thread into a 41 vs 44 caliber argument, just be weary of the some of the 41 Kool-aid drinkers, they are a stubborn bunch, and ignore basic physics principals.

"Anything it can do the 44 Magnum does 15% better. "... I bet this is pretty close, here's why: The difference in area of .429 & .410 is 9.5%... Since Force = PSI x Area, and the pressure of the two cartridges is not the same either, according to Saami specs: maximum pressure 41mag = 35kpsi; 44mag=36kpsi. So, add another 3%. And throw in potential increase from a greater powder capacity in the 44mag case...and there you go.

Oh,... but I hear the 41 shoots so much flatter... must be the difference in BC for reducing the diameter .019". And would be logical for comparing bullets of the same weight and design in the different calibers at the same velocities; however the 44 pushes the same bullet weights faster, negating small advantages in BC.

Don't get me wrong, I really love my M58.... Can't touch a 44mag fixed sight for anything less than stupid money...and other than the internet auction sites, I haven't seen one for sale anyway.

Oh, yeah???? Well so's your old man!!!!

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Even older, even crankier....

Question: Do bears....?

The high points are these:
The .41 Magnum is flat-shooting, has about 20% less recoil, is a demon on game, steel chickens and rams, and has been known to be used in self-defense.
If you get into reloading you can really get everything out of this cartridge that can be gotten. And you'll save money over time, too.
And having a .41 just sets you apart and makes you one of the cool guys who know something about handguns and cartridges. Own a .41 Magnum and reload your ammo, and you will NEVER have to prove yourself in any other way!

Check out these threads:
S-S-S-C-C-C-ORE! Mod. 57 4"

Loading the .41 Magnum

still have a 57 no- 4", and a 57-5 "Mountain Gun"... old Elmer Kieth was said to have carried a brace of 57s when dangerous game hunting. good enough for Elmer, good enough for me. i'm lucky that a friend is in the reloading buss. and does me right on swc, and even some wicked hollows. he loads the hornady xtp 210 gr. to a slightly spicy 1300 fps. some of his hard cast hunting stuff is a bit more macho at 1425 on the chrono. knocked a pig down at 75 feet, with a shot right behind a shoulder. never found the bullit, but it made tidy work of that poor, defensless, delicious piggy. if he was closer, it would have cleaned and cooked him too... i'm still looking for the night guard unicorn in .41.

My 41 mag story....

Spring of 1973 I was riding a patrol unit in the SE side of
town in a major Texas city.
There was an "Oldhead" copper (I was 20) that rode the beat next to
mine. A quite guy at roll-call, rode by himself, liked
by the brass.. solid lawman.
The Dirty Harry craze was in full swing and we had to order
our 29's by departmental letterhead. As I was turning in my letter
he asked if I was gonna spend that kind of dough ($289.00 IIRC)
on the 44mag.

Then I answered I was. He simply said..."Save your money and
get one of these."
Not being very gun-wise I asked what he was packin and
he said a 41 magnum. Told him never heard of it and I will go
with the 44mag..model 29.

Fast forward three weeks.
Hijackin drops in a neighborhood Mom & Pop grocery in my
beat. I arrive and enter.
Met with gunfire instantly.
I return fire with one round and the hijacker retreats about
halfway down the food aisle. I'm crouched behind a checkout
counter(where the bagger would be) with a civilian clerk
directly in front of me still behind the cash register.

He snaps off two more rounds as I hear a very loud gunshot.
The Oldhead as showed and entered the front door.
The hijacker was very tall plus had an afro the size of
a garbage can lid. Old copper could see his head above the
shelving lined him up and fired.
Three cans of creamed corn (Green Giant) then four boxes
of saltine crackers on the flipside....then the shooter.
He was down.

I worked Mexican Cantinas on Navigation Street and Telephone Road
as my extra jobs. Save my rubles and bought a model 58 a few
month later.
Have not been without a 41 mag since.

SCSW states first serial number as S236941, but goes on to state that a correspondent reported one with an S227750 serial number.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

Some say the .41 mag. has greater down range ballistics than the .44mag, all things being equal.

For most people and most uses, any ballistic difference is modest and probably not significant. The load that LE agencies should have used, the 210 grain lead SWC, is pleasant if a bit dirty to shoot. Some used the 210 grain JSP (these were the only 2 factory loads for quite a while after the caliber showed up), which was a hunting load. It was hot, unpleasant and difficult to shoot well, and pretty much assured failure for most trying to qualify. 30 odd years ago, I took my ex-wife shooting, and she wanted to try my M58 with that load. She was small woman, and I had to duck down behind her and brace her with my hands on her lats.

More modern ammo eventually showed up, but I carried my M58 with that SWC for a couple years, and sometimes afterward (later years, with the 175 grain Silvertip). I had complete confidence in the platform. I still keep the revolver loaded and accessible.

Sales of the M58 must have been awful - I bought my M58 new in '79, I think, and the serial # dates to the mid 60s (S327XXX).

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NHI, 10-8.

Not quite sure of where your pulling your information from, but the .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum do operate at the same pressure.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ssure_CfPR.pdf

The biggest mistake that the majority make when comparing different calibers is comparing the same bullet weight. This is fundamentally the wrong way to make a comparison as the smaller caliber will never be able to shoot the same weight bullet as fast as the larger caliber. Instead to get a more accurate comparison you need to match bullets that have the same sectional density as close as possible. In this case that would be a 210gr bullet for the .41 and the 240gr bullet for the .44. When both are used with full up loads both will send their respective bullets down range at the same velocity.

As for the BC argument I believe that it is of little consequence as most folks won't be shooting at distances to take advantage of it.

I have 2 57's and a 58 all nickel of course. A cast 210-220 gr bullet and 7.0 of Unique is pleasant and accurate. As has been mentioned, the original ammo was loaded too hot for police work and the lead round leaded badly. If it would have been properly loaded, more officers might have carried it.

I had a high-polish model 657 which I allowed a good friend to buy from me. I have regretted that sale ever since. I have an original Model 58 M&P .41 Magnum which was last manufactured in 1977. Of course it has the 4" barrel. It has very slight holster wear on each side of the very end of the barrel. Otherwise there is no damage or scratches whatsoever. The trigger guard was slimmed down on the right side to allow faster access to the trigger. I had it for many years before I even noticed that. I've owned .41 Magnums of one sort or another since the mid 1970's and it's a very effective and very accurate caliber. My arthritis no longer allows me to shoot magnums and I have been wanting to sell this for quite some time. I only saw one on GB and it was $1,600-plus. The Blue Book doesn't have this 98%+ revolver listed for anywhere near the value considering the rarity. GA had zero listings for the Model 58. Smith is now listing a "Classics" version with a 6" barrel for an MSRP of $1,009.00. This is their only .41 magnum listed on their website as of 10/15/15.

Over the years I have had great success with the Winchester Silvertip 210 Grain. Very accurate and I don't recall even one failure to fire.

...most correct..but I believe if you check it is the 220 .41 that is the same as the 240 .44.

1964-2014...The .41 Magnum



As to the story about the first two .41s flying to Alaska, those guns were given to Elmer Keith as he was leaving on a polar bear hunt. He used the guns to harvest several caribou that were given to the locals. Those guns were on display till earlier this year at the Elmer Keith Museum at the Cabela's in Boise, Idaho. All of Elmer's guns were sold off by the family this past spring and that pair went for over $20K.

If you want a true collector grade gun look for a 1964-67 57 (no-). The bluing is much finer than the later models and they have the coveted Coke grips...

Bob

I snagged this for $299.00 at the local pawn shop a few years ago. After some cleaning and adding some new stocks, I think I got my money's worth.

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Pat Henson

I know that area of town. Still about the same.

I have a box of Silvertips I have had since I got my first 57. There are 6 in a speedloader ready to go in case of emergency.

WHERE can I obtain a reasonably-priced replacement rear sight assembly with mounting screw for a blue .41 mag Model 57 6" barrel revolver, serial# N125253? This beautiful gun slipped out of a holster onto a rock, which bent the micrometer mechanism and broke the white-outlined blade. The elevation screw receiver notch is rounded (not square) on the fore end.

Put an add in the classified, GunBroker, Ebay and you may want to check with MidwayUSA, GUNPARTSCORP and Brownells.

Bob

Thanks for your reply, Bob. I've already tried Brownells. The one assembly I tried ordering from them did not fit & I had to send it back. On eBay, the few that might fit are unreasonably pricey. I will certainly take a look at MidwayUSA & GUNPARTSCORP.

I think if the internet was at the arrival of the s&w 41 Magnum from its infancy the story, popularity and sales of the 41 magnum would of been much different today. I still think the 41 Magnum is more popular than most of us think it is today.
My first two s&w Magnum revolvers were the m57/m58 in nickel. I feel anyone who has a s&w m27, m28, m29 how can you not own a m57/m58.
It's a crime not to own a 41 Magnum.

I been a die hard 44 mag owner for many decades. I still like the 41 Magnum too.

From the hunters who hunt with both the 41Magnum and the 44Magnum they both have the same killing power, dead is dead. There's really no beef between the two magnums. But one got to Hollywood. The other stayed home.

Currently don't have a 41 but for giggles thinking of dealing for a nice 657 MG.

It never fails. Mention the .41 magnum and the posts cascade in. I'm a big fan of the 57/58 for no other reason than I like them. My M58-1 is a killer. JUST KIDDING.

If you have the m27/28 357 & the m29 you have to own the redheaded step child the 41mag too.

Your'e thinking of Bill Jordan & Elmer Keith.

Jordan wanted something along the lines of a .44 Special SWC at around 900 FPS.

He liked the .41 magnum police load but had envisioned a lighter .41 frame (about L-frame size, which I still think could be chambered in a 6-round .41 magnum or 10mm.)

Jordan later wrote that he'd been naive to think S&W would design & produce a new frame size around a new cartridge.

Now, if S&W would build a 6-shot .41 magnum on the L-frame, I might join the lunatic fringe (aka .41 magnum fans.)

An LGS used to convert Pythons to .41 magnum, which is pretty much the same size as the L-frame.

jt...you mean like this...

Bowen 41 Special | Single-Actions

If the 581/586/686 had come out in .41 Special in 1964 it may have been a whole different story... Colt really blew it as the .41 Special would have been the perfect large bore caliber for the Trooper/Python... The Ruger GP100 is also the perfect vehicle...

Bob