The predecessor to the Model 65 -- the heavy barreled Model 64-1 special ordered for .357 -- were all barrels marked .357, or were some marked .38 despite being .357 chambered?

I ask because a popular gun auction site has a 64-1 listed as one of the .357 special orders, but the pictured barrel clearly says .38; all examples I've seen were stamped .357.

I believe if it shipped with a cylinder bored for the magnum cartridge, the barrel would say .357 Magnum CTG. There were Model 64-1 revolvers chambered for the .38 Special, and those had the correct barrel marking for that cartridge.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I'm with Jpack but that's just conjecture.

The only mention in Standard Catalog is that the 64-1s in .357 were made for the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. Unfortunately, no pictures.

I've bought online but I wouldn't dream of bidding on an item like that. Even at a gun show, the potential for counterfeit is high.

About a year ago, I researched and wrote an article for publication regarding the Model 64, in its several variants. Here is an excerpt from that piece:

In 1972, the company produced the first Model 64-1 version under a special order by the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. These were chambered for the .357 Magnum, with longer charge holes in the cylinder to accommodate the longer cartridge. This led to production of the Model 65, which was the stainless version of the carbon steel Model 13. The Model 13 had a similar history, due to a special order by the New York State Police (not the NYPD) for new .357 Magnum revolvers. The earliest examples were marked as the Model 10-6.

However, there were many Model 64-1 revolvers with standard chambers for the .38 Special and the heavy 4″ barrel. Some people have the impression that any Model 64-1 is able to shoot the .357 Magnum cartridge. This simply is not true. The caliber designation for each revolver is roll-stamped on the side of the barrel. If it says .38 S&W Special CTG, it is not chambered for the magnum cartridge. .38 Special ammunition can be used in a gun chambered for the .357 Magnum, but not the other way around.

In 1973, S&W produced 750 copies of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol Commemorative edition, marked Model 64-1. It had a 4″ heavy barrel and was chambered for the .357 Magnum cartridge. So far as I can determine, these were the last Model 64 revolvers chambered for the magnum cartridge. All subsequent .357 Magnum stainless service revolvers in the Military & Police line were marked Model 65-1 (and later variants beginning with the dash 2 in 1977).

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

[QUOTE=JP@AK;138811965]About a year ago, I researched and wrote an article for publication regarding the Model 64, in its several variants. Here is an excerpt from that piece:

Jack,
Hopefully you can answer a question for me. I believe I have one of the OHP guns. Do you have the serial number range of the first group of the OHP guns? Also, was the second set made (commemorative) the gun that had the OHP crest on the side plate?


Thanks,
Hank

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Hank
SWCA 2945

firemanhank
I'm not sure where my notes are for that article. I've moved my office since then. [Incorrect statement deleted.]
Also, I am not sure about the crest, but the commemorative (made in 1973) might have had it. If so, the SCSW (p. 225) is incorrect on that point (it says, "no known markings"). I'm quite certain the original production run did not have any special marks.
Perhaps someone here on the Forum has one and can confirm for you.

Edited to remove incorrect info. Sorry, guys.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Jack,
Did you mean the 2D series? If so, that put the gun in the 1977-1983 time frame. Thats a few years past the date of manufacture of the OHP guns. My revolver's serial is D673350. The SCSW list D prefix guns as being models 10,12,14, and 45 (not a 64 or 65). My gun is clearly a 64-1 in .357. If you find your notes and can help me, I would be very appreciative.
Thanks,
Hank

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Hank
SWCA 2945

Way back when I was younger some guys would buy a Model 67 .38 special because it was a few $$$ cheaper, and then take it to a gunsmith and have a ream job on the cylinder so they could shoot .357 magnums in them. You never quite know what history a used gun may have.

Yes. Sorry. For some reason, I was looking at the K listings. Dumb. Of course the serial number would not be in that series as those were all revolvers with adjustable sights.

D673350 would be a little bit high (1974) but it is possible for one of the commemorative revolvers. The earlier Model 64s did have the D prefix. I have one in the D775xxx range (1975).

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

FWIW, D673227 is a 64-1 with the appropriate .357 barrel marking, and no other special markings.

RWJ

Hap, Here is the Jinks Letter I received in regard to my .357 64-1. It gives the applicable serial numbers for the run. I don't know if the OK HWP guns are included in this series. Mine is pinned and recessed, with the appropriate caliber marking. I've only been able to document 5 in existance from Forum members. Being a prototype run, I would bet that all guns chambered for the .357 were correctly marked.

You are in the correct serial number range. I'm taking it is pinned and recessed. I have only been able to document a handful of these from Forum members. I'm guessing many went to LE Departments and were destroyed on turn in.

Edit: Just got home from work and checked my notes. I did have you recorded from previous posts.

What provenance does the seller provide documenting his claim?
Time to ask questions before you bid.

If all he can say is that it chambers 357, that's pretty weak.
Without documentation, it was probably reamed out after it left the factory.

Excellent questions. I have no intention of buying; this particular seller and his offerings have been discussed on the forum before.

Great post, KLYDE! Info added to my files. Thanks.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Jack,
Roy's letter stated that the run started at approximately D672000 and ran for approximately 1200 units. I'd feel comfortable giving a few extra examples than holding firm to the 1200 number. Fireman Hanks gun is the highest S/N I have recorded at 673350.(I previously had this gun owned by another member....so I'm guessing Hank either just acquired it or changed his screen name.) D673350 would make approximately 1350 examples. I'm comfortable with any S/N that is relatively close as being authentic. I believe the P&R feature is the main clue versus just being able to chamber a .357 cartridge. Just for your info my S/n is D673203 which is close to RWJ's. I only documented 1 gun in the 672xxx range owned by Kframebluvr and I believe he stated it was a duty gun that was destroyed upon turn in.

Good stuff. A happy and safe Thanksgiving to all.

I would wonder if the cylinder was recessed first; that seems to be a common characteristic for 64-1's in .357; followed closely by the serial # range. I would also think that the barrel extension into the frame would have to have been shortened, but that would take a really close exam.

Can we confirm that the 357 factory chambered 64-1 guns do in fact have the longer magnum cylinder length? And shorter respective barrel protrusion at the forcing cone...

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

Certainly KLYDE's does; the longer magnum cylinder length was to accommodate the counterboring, and the barrel face shortened accordingly for proper fit and gap in the frame window, which was the same size in .38 and .357 K-frames.

I'd wager it quite safe to presume S&W built all K-frame .357s that way -- to include .357 10-6s and 64-1s -- prior to the '82 counterbore deletion.

The listed 64-1 in question -- billed as an authentic Oklahoma PD pre-65 -- does not have a recessed cylinder, and the barrel is marked .38. Caveat emptor.

So, is it safe to assume mine is an OHP gun or the commemorative gun or a overrun of the 64-1 chambered in .357?? My gun is both pinned and recessed. I love the gun as the Model 65 (the 64's younger brother) is one of my favorites. I just want to know if it was OHP 1st run, 2nd run (commemorative), or plain jane. I have also sen these guns with OHP emblem on the side plate.
Thanks! Great info so far.
Hank

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Hank
SWCA 2945

My interpretation of the Jinks letter is that the 64-1 prototype, while originally offered to LE, was in production at the time of the decision to officially make it the model 65. Once the decision was made to make it an official model the remainder of the 64-1 stamped guns were completed and the 65 was introduced. Most likely mine, yours and the rest I have documented are plain jane offerings that were sold to the public. A good possibility that some may have gone to LE.

Per my letter, mine was shipped to Bob Smith Sporting Goods located in Boston MA. They were a big LE distributor. Whether it went to LE or where it went after that is unknown. Your serial number is after mine and near the end of the run. Most likely marketed for regular sale.

I believe a Forum member who resides in Fla has posted a OHP commemorative model with the stamped side plate. I PM'd him for information but he ignored my PM and never responded. I believe the commemoratives were a whole different animal then the prototype guns.

Thanks for clearing this up. The info is top notch.
Happy thanksgiving.
Hank

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Hank
SWCA 2945