Not a big N-frame guy....... just a 4" 28 and...... because of blind luck and you guys a 6.5" Reg Magnum.

But had a possible "Epiphany".......I was in a LGS late last week ...... he had 3 model 28s...... two 4" and a 6"..... nice but as I said not my cup of tea...... but he also had a 4" Model 27....... true shooter grade.....90%. A gun you wouldn't mind carrying and shooting ............(didn't check "dash", Serial# or S or N)

Well earlier today it hit me........ I seem to recall from threads here the 4 inch 27 is uncommon to fairly scarce......... everyone wants a 3 1/2" and long for a 5"...........

27s also seem to be starting at "silly money" these days......... what "ballpark" is a shooter grade 4" 27 in???????

so while I'm doing my own research....... how about some feed back from the N-frame guys..........

Thanks..

I bought a gun like the one you describe about 6 months ago. S pre-fix.Came with Pachs,$500 plus my FFL fee. You are absolutely correct in that they are very scarce. I see MANY more of the 3 1/2" and 5" guns! Only way I would consider one a collectible is if it's at least a 98% gun. If you really aren't an N-frame guy,ask yourself if it's something you NEED. If you already have a higher condition Model 28,what's the point?
F.T.

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South Carolina-God's country

All good questions...... this was just the same kind of buzzing in the back of my brain that made me follow up on a " 6" S&W .357 magnum"........ that with some research and digging turned out to be my RM.

This was kind of the ugly duckling of his S&W's ...but it's been nagging at me!

What's the story on your RM? Must've missed it if was posted about previously. Love to hear it.

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Posted a couple of times over the last 10 years..............................

On the way home from work ...... stopped in a small LGS.... looked around/BS'ed with the owner..... nothing of interest.....................

as I turned to the door ..... he said "got a nice S&W .357 on consignment here".......... only out of politeness....... I took a look.. +6 inch barrel, Pachmyer grips and as a bonus it came w/ an Uncle Mikes shoulder holster..... $325.....

Now the rest of the story................................

Back story: wife told husband to get it out of the house ....before the baby was born..... even though it was his fathers ( and more likely than not his grandfathers)

......looked it over ....."nice" I said and headed home........................

.... gun kept bugging me ..... inside the crain ...."Reg Mag xxxx"

dug out my SCS&W............... "holly bat-**** Batman".................kept looking RM in nice condition were selling for $3,000/4000+

I was at the shop a 10:02AM the next day......."You know I don't have a 6" .357 and at .$325 too good to pass up!"

The rest is history..........................

Yes I felt a bit guilty....... but it was on consignment.... I paid the asking price ...... so everyone got what they wanted/asked for out of the sale..........

LOL Now let me tell you about the "Pre-39" or the 3 inch 66......

Well, Bam-Bam, you know that I'm a little like you, I don't have a lot of N frames, but if the price is right, a scarce specimen like you describe is a great investment. I would snap it up, even if just to play with a little. Ask yourself how many of these have you seen? That's sort of like me buying the 28-2 that I have been writing about on another thread. I got a call, and really had no interest in the gun, but the price was right, and I have ended up having a blast (so to speak) with it.

Just my two cents.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I'm not an expert but IIRC, the 4" 27-2's were toward the end of the -2 run. Without checking SCSW, maybe the last couple years of it so their numbers are fewer but I don't know if they classify as scarce, but I may be wrong.
Any other 4" 27's prior to the -2 would likely fit that category or maybe even rare.

I believe jack the toad is correct in that the 4" guns were later
and probably all are N series guns. But very desirable barrel
length and if you can "get it right", might be worth grabbing
for a 4" shooter gun. If you can get it for 5-6 bills you should
be able to always recoup your investment down the line.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

A 'hand cannon' if ever there was one. I do love the classic bluing on the older 27's, but otherwise, personally, offers little that get's my motor going. Given the choice, I would wait until a gorgeous vintage Model 19 comes along. I'm talking a 1959-65 vintage 19 at 92% or better.

Model 19 P&R'ed bases covered...................................2 1/2 and 4 inch

My first handgun was a 6" model 19 and it's still the one I'll keep forever. That said, about a year ago I picked up a 6" Model 27...it sure is a fun piece to shoot. No worry about what load you shoot, recoil is softer....trust me, you won't regret it if you go for it...

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

As noted above, a 4" model 27-2 or 3 (the most common variant) is scarce, and any earlier would be a rare one. I'd guess a minimum of $650-700 for a 90% shooter, and higher if it is nicer.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The back story to the mod 27 4" gun! This was posted here many years ago(pre Gorilla) by a west coast member of the SWCA. I believe the L frame guns were the biggest contributing factor to the demise of the 4" mod 27.
jcelect

A couple of years back I researched the M27 barrel lengths re: number of “years offered” in S&W documents (Annual catalogs, All Model Circulars, Price lists). For Postwar manufacturing, the Model 27 and Pre-M27 was offered in the following barrel lengths for the following number of years.

6” barrel = 1946-1994 48 yrs
8.375” barrel = 1949-1991 46yrs
3.5” barrel = 1946-1979 34yrs
5” barrel = 1946-1979 34yrs
6.5” barrel = 1946-1968 23yrs
4” barrel = 1980-1991 12yrs
Notes:
1 – Prior to cataloging the 4”, special orders accounted for all the 4” production.
2 – Model 27 sales (in general) were very sluggish after the Model 19 was introduced.
3 – Model 27 4” guns were cataloged the first time in 1980, the same year the L frame was introduced.
4 – Duty usage of the 4” M27 was probably slow as compared to the (lower cost) M28 Highway Patrolman after 1954.
5 – All Nickel 4” models noted to date have been around 1980 production of the M27-2, all with TT/TH/TS/WO/RR
6 – The years cataloged may not correlate to actual production numbers, but it speaks to the general availability and orderability.
7 – The above is for standard production guns, it does not cover any commemorative or re-issue special editions. Both the 3.5” and 5” were reintroduced at least once.
9 – In 1969 S&W changed to the N serial prefix as a requirement of the 1968 Gun Control Act.

Talked to the LGS owner.........it's a 4 inch

27-2...not pinned but recessed,target hammer and trigger,red ramp.... so that would place it about 1980/81.

I remember some blueing wear on both sides of the muzzle; owner noted a small "pitted spot" on the cylinder.....

my recollection is it really needed wiped down to get a good look.... dusty and dull...............need to pull the Maga grips.....

Think I can get it "Out the door" at under $600..... so that puts the gun at about $540-550........sat aside on a 72 hour hold........

Never really thought about what a tough road the S&W "Flagship" Model 27 had vs. the Models 19 and 28 and L-frame.........

Sounds like a no-brainer to me... That's a great gun, in a rare configuration, I'd grab it. The 28s are nice guns, I've got a 6" 28-2 that is unfired outside of the factory, but the 27s are real beauties.

I've got a few 27s, including a blues 4" 27-2. It's the only 4" 27 I've ever come across, and it's one of my favorite Smiths. Mine is an unfired, complete package. It's got the outer shipping box from S&W, and inside the shipping box it's the gun in a plain blue cardboard two piece box, as well as the presentation case that is still in the plastic shrink wrap. I was lucky to come across this package several years ago, and I over paid for it back then, but knew it would only go up in price. Glad to see the 27s go up in value so much, for $600, I don't think you can go wrong...

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NRA Life Member

Please let us know what you decide on this poor orphan.

Here's some inspiration: my factory 4 inch pre-27 that shipped
on April 22, 1957. All original including grips. It's a shooter,
and is very accurate.

Attached Images

	S&W pre-27 4 inch barrel Variation 002.jpg (78.4 KB, 102 views)
	S&W pre-27 4 inch barrel Variation 003.jpg (84.9 KB, 105 views)

Use to be a gun shop in Salinas called Trigger Hill. They bought a large estate of Smiths that I in turn bought a couple of, one of which was a 4" 27. This was a transitional gun with a pinned barrel, but without the recessed cylinder. I remember the last years of the 27, they standardized the barrels from 3 1/2" & 6 1/2" to 4" & 6".

The one I had was a Monday morning model as it shot to two different, side by side points of impact. The barrel was loose and shifted side to side between shots. You could push the barrel pin out with your finger and unscrew the barrel with just hand pressure.

Not wanting a take-down model 27, I replaced the undersized pin with a larger piece of drill stock. When this didn't fix the wobbly barrel, I applied some green Loctite, centered up the barrel and replaced the pin. That fixed it and it shot well. When I liquidated part of my 50+ collection of Smith revolvers, it was one that got sold.

Joe,
Do you trust those west coast members for accuracy???
And love the "pre gorilla" line, sounds sort of apocalyptic don't it??

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.............SmithNut

Folks around here get smokin' deals. I bought this one in 2010 for $550 from a dentist walking into the regular Orlando show. He had it in a crumpled paper bag, I thought it was a sammich. I certainly would pay that today. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

There was a flurry of 4" 27-2s for sale about 10 yrs. ago(or so it seemed to me). I managed to buy 4 nickel 27-2s(including one transition gun...R no P). I traded one nickel for a blue 4" dash 2(I offered the transition gun but the guy didn't like it). Later, I snagged one more blue dash 2 4" but have rarely seen any since.

I do have a 4" Reg Mag BUT it's a KCPD gun which has been badly abused by a belt sander.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Buy it. Blue 27-2 4" are hardly offered every now and then.

Recessed but not pinned is a fairly scarce variant.

I've preached for years that all you guys should be hunting the P&R Mod 27-2s in 4 inch. One day, people will realize that it is the SCARCEST variant of the P&R 27s that was ever cataloged.
I'm too tired to type it again, so read it here in a CLOSED auction.
This gun went CHEAP!-
Smith & Wesson Scarce P&R FOUR Inch Mod 27-2 w All : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I think the west coaster that wrote that piece knows a little about S&Ws! Do you remember the date of that post? 19 Dec 2004 Everyone that I have passed that info alone to can't believe it, until they research it a little! I knew it would happen, if we talk about "the Gorilla" he will come! And, he tells the truth! It took me many years to find a 4" 27-2 in a correct presentation case!
jcelect

The 4 inch Model 27-2's seemed to appear all at once all of a sudden and then were all gone. Most of them I saw for sale were nickel finish in a wood presentation case. I bought mine, P&R, new in 1998.

Yes, it's been awhile...

Here's some of the research notes resulting in the number of years by barrel length. Some missing years shown in red, but I think the extrapolation/assumptions are straight forward...

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.............SmithNut

Well skipped lunch today.......for a road trip to take a second, closer look.

It's a 27-2...... 4"........serial # N886xxx Recessed, but not a pinned barrel ( if I could have only one it would be R'ed).... so I'd place it at late 80 to 81 as the -3 was introduced in 1982.

Lock up IMO is as tight as new.....

NO pitting (loss of metal) but a "very little bit" of muzzle wear.....

but some "thinning/molting" ** of the blueing along the edges of the cylinder flutes..... maybe from over cleaning?? or being in a wet holster??

A little bit of flame cutting .....but not bad..... .357s cases dropped in so no .38 special powder ring buildup!

TH and TT ... caseharding looks good....nice single action break......DA feels weird to me with the target trigger.......

No rust under the Pachmyers (dealer added a set of factory Magna's to the deal)......... but

On the grip frame; right side a R inside a circle ( IIRC = factory repair?) and a 5 inside a "heart" (????)

I'd classify it as a 35 year old .....well cared for duty gun. Was in the case at $695......... I got him down to........$ (looking for some more unbiased feedback first) He's holding it till Saturday........

Sorry for no pictures from the shop .....besides I'm stuck with my "house rule" (I've written about before) ..... "teenagers and internet pictures"!!! But if I get it I'll bring it to the NE Ohio Bunch "Bunching" on Oct 1st.

What's a good/fair price....... the bluing thing bothers me....... yet it would make a great shooter..........

Thanks for the input and information..................



** most noticeable in direct sunlight.....kind of a matted model 28 blue look to it......I've seen it before on older "used" guns ...but never had it on any of my guns...... so unsure of the cause........distracting but no effect of function ...............

Busy Weekend>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well nobody's biting on the what's a good price question.

Got it for $600 out the door....... that's $560 before taxes an background check.

Also went to the Pitt /Penn State game ....... 42 to 39 Pitt...... first match up in over 15 years........82,000 in the stands at Heinz field.....great game and very loud!!!! (I'm a Pitt Law Grad, Wife her MBA and our oldest is a Freshman)

Today's our 24 wedding anniversary...................

But still.......................

spent last evening cleaning up the 27.....it was dusty/dirty......... it's looking to be a good solid +90% gun; perfect for carrying and shooting in Penn's Woods.....thinking about a set of Executioner's Stag grips to replace the Pachmyar's ..................

Will be bringing it to the NE Ohio Bunching on Oct 1st .............. for it's photo op!

Congrats on what sounds like a very good deal. Could that matte look possibly be a light film of rust? The reason I ask is, I purchased a 27-3 about 4 years ago and, like yours, when in natural light, it had a dull, matte look to the finish. It took a lot of cleaning but shinned up real nice. Enjoy.

Could be: I think it spent a lot of time in a holster (maybe stored?)......I spent some time last night with some oil and a light buffing cloth and it's "almost" gone when viewed in artificial light.......or less than direct full sunlight.....strangely it was only along the edges of the cylinder flutes.

IMO it's a very nice shooter grade, but not a safe Queen, 27 that I won't mind actually carrying in Penn's Woods...... my stash of stuff has a Bianchi 111 cross draw for a 4" N-frame.

You got a real good deal on that 27.

$600 out the door?

You did terrific.

A brand new key lock Smith and Wesson starts at $850.

This is a better made and better looking gun.

I hope for all of us on these boards to get a great deal like this next time out.

The gun in that auction also does not have the RR/WO combo that is on nearly every 4". I've seen a few come up on the auction sites without it but they are much more common with them. My 27-2 4" is nickel with the plain sights. It also has a smooth combat trigger but I'm almost certain that it was added later.

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Andy

Hey Bam-Bam 1 Oct is getting closer, don't forget to bring the 4"er! I believe you will find that serial number was shipped after Jan 82. The -3 N frame guns were introduced in 1983! Your serial number is real close to the early serial numbers of the 29-3 Silhouette guns.
See you at the Northeast bunch, jcelect

I will be bringing it as one of my "Gunshop saves"

The SCS&W puts it within 14,000 ......based on your earlier post I didn't think annual N-frame production was all that high ....... in the 80s...... figured production was focused on the "NEW L-frame".

Have this pair of 4"ers to compare, both are dash 2's


The blued 27-2 above Serial N 762052 Shipped June, 1982
The nickel one is Serial N 941017 Shipped Feb 1984 with a recessed cylinder but barrel is not pinned,


S&W Rule #1 is there are no rules with S&W and IIRC one of our members claimed to have a 27-3 that had a recessed cylinder but I never saw the gun.

By 1982 and 84....shouldn't they both be wearing grips w/ speedloader cutouts?????


I know, I know ..... never say never...... and......... there are no rules!!!!

Here's a 27-2 bought last year in May for $1,235 incl shipping on gunbroker. Beautiful revolver. I have a 66-5 66 .357Mag Hi Viz Sights 3.5" in my sights next.

Attached Images

272SW.JPG (47.5 KB, 35 views)

Sweeeeet........mine IMHO is a shooter grade/ex-duty gun..... which kind of bridges the gap between yours and Model 28s..........

I'm really liking the 4" N'frame guns more than the 3 1/2"....size wise....my 3" 66 is a much better concealed carry gun........the 4" L and N frames , again in my opinion, serve better as open carry/duty guns.

BAM-BAM:

Glad to hear this -- this is what I was hoping ... now to find that 66-5 ... the 27-2, 4" I have is pretty accurate. At 100 yds I was able to hit a 16" x 19" w/10 of the 25 rounds(have to practice more) I threw at it. See attached-

Attached Images

IMG_20160717_184249372.jpg (33.2 KB, 18 views)

The 4" 27-2 are nice, but for most people they are not on the "gotta have" list because you can get a 4" Highway Patrolman fairly easily. They are practically the same guns, even if the HP is less refined. The HP's less refined nature makes them all the more endearing to some of us.

So even if the 4"ers are the rarest 27s, they may never obtain ridiculous value just because of their lower production numbers. I mean, how many people are there that just have to have one in every barrel length? 90% of these people are probably reading this thread right now.

A pic to share:
Here is my 4" 27-2. Typical 3-T and in minty condition. Surrounded by a pair of her working class brothers:

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

I agree here. I mean, I love me some bright polished steel and checked top strap on the pre & 27s, (I have 2 a 3.5" pre and a 5" nickel -2, plus an RM coming) but there is just something very attractive about the matte finish of the HPs that I have a deep appreciation for. I own 2 of the 4" versions and they are a treat to handle and shoot.

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