Please allow me to rant...

S&W MOD.13-1 (MFG.1977) 357 magUNFIRED IN BOX. : Revolvers at GunBroker.com Shows the original auction and it is listed as and description of...

New Old Stock Condition
UNFIRED
99% ORIGINAL CONDITION
99% ORIGINAL METAL BLUE
LIKE NEW CASE COLORED TRIGGER AND HAMMER

Now let me clue you guys in on a few things. This pistol was literally 40 minutes away from me. However it is a state away which prevented me from going to pick it up in person. Still...40 minutes away...the seller still charged me $40 for shipping through the post office. Alright, I sent the money order of the amount plus $40 shipping. After getting the money order I had to wait 7 days for him to finally ship the 13. My FFL copied me in the email to him giving him their FFL and when I called to see if it had shipped he said he just had got my FFL, which I know for facts is a lie. This kinda threw me off and put me a little on guard but I shrugged it off.

FINALLY today I got the 13! I was super excited to get it but nervous at the same time. Mainly about the grips and if they were numbered to the gun. I got it and the first thing I noticed is the wax paper was doubled up but there was no original paperwork. In the auction if you look at the original picture it shows what looks like paperwork in the box. I assumed that was it's original paperwork. Silly me for assuming.


Ah, not that big of a deal. So I give the revolver a quick 1 over as I wanted to know about the grips. The "do they or don't they" question had been plaguing me for a week. I quickly take the like new grips off and there it is, the original numbers. I'm immediately at ease and continue my inspection. I carefully put them back on and look at the forcing cone. The revolver's forcing cone literally looked like it had never been fired. The chambers of the cylinder shined like a new chrome job. You could see the machine marks on the forcing cone between it and the top strap. It was that new and unfired. At this point I settled into the "I'm happy" mode...

So then I give it it's last over. First I look at the sideplate screws. It was clear they had never been touched. But then...Oh no...I look at the S&W emblem and see sometime. I immediately know what it is but I don't want to believe it. There was a rather large blemish and upon further look it showed a spot of bluing loss and pitting. I look further on the right side and notice the muzzle has wear on the side of it. Then I look at the trigger and see drag marks on it, I wouldn't call that "like new".

So I call the seller and express all of my dis satisfactions and he doesn't even deny it, he just says to send it back and he will refund me the money minus all the shipping.

So all in all I'm out $65 because he wasn't honest. The only thing good about this revolver was the left hand side and the fact that IMO it WAS unfired. Would you guys have returned it for $759?

Not as advertised, send it back unless you and he can come to an agreement. If not so note in feedback! Be sure and make GB aware.

I am in no way taking sides on this one, but that is the problem with not buying in person. What might not bother me, may be a huge deal to you. Sorry it did not work out for you, but at least you get most of your $ back.

It's after the fact so my thought won't help, but if it was only 40 minutes away (and since gas is cheaper right now) I would driven over there and inspected it in person. If it met your satisfaction, then pay him and have him ship it to your FFL. If it turned out as it did, then you could have not bought it, and you'd only be out the gas...which would have been less than $65 (assuming you don't drive a tank.)

The amount of work I would have missed would have had my dollar loss amount much much worse. Not only that but that's assuming no one else bought the revolver before I got there. This wasn't an auction, it was only a buy it now I believe.

But yes, I totally understand what you are saying and that definitely could have saved some time and heart ache that is for sure!

This is just a thought, and I'm sure there are all sorts of legal reasons why this won't work (which is the case for most of my thoughts) but wouldn't it be great if the law allowed states that honor each other's carry permits to also allow non-resident CHL holders to make purchases in their respective states?

If it's intended to be a shooter/carry piece, I'd try to negotiate some compen$ation, and keep it.

I would keep it, shoot it, enjoy it. The "Blemish" on the plate and rub mark on the right side muzzle would detract from 100% how much ?
Buying "On Line" is a "Dice Roll".

I personally would not try to buy an as new gun on line. Would buy brand new, or as nice a shooter as possible.There are too many fine lines when it comes to condition. You have a lot into the gun for it not to be right. I bought a Sig 2022 on G.B. at a fair (good) price. Upon receiving it, found it to be double action only. Was not mentioned in the ad. Probably an oversight. Seller offered me 2 free new factory magazines, or send it back. I took the magazines. Maybe your seller will do something to make you happy. (happier) Let us know how you make out. Bob

Too bad. I've bought lots of things on line - including guns - but I always pass when the pics don't show all sides of the item.

I have made more than a few GB purchases over the years. Most work out well but some do not. I have been the recipient of a misrepresented gun that had internal damage but, my seller suggested that I did the damage and refused to take the gun back. GB will not intervene on your behalf so, I was stuck with the gun which had been patched up to function. Long story cut short is that I had the factory repair it making my cost exceed the value of the gun. The old saying the if you walk in the pasture long enough, you are bound to step in something applies to buying used on line.

This thread has once again made me happy that I have LGSs and pawn shops that seem to ALWAYS have something I want. And they ALWAYS keep me broke. Therefore I never buy online. However, I would buy from a forum member who has an ad here.

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I'm gonna grow fins.

Just a few observations I don't think anyone has mentioned...

- The ad says $40 shipping. If you buy, you pay!

- There's an "ask seller a question" button for a reason. There's never a reason to fear the stock sn won't match the gun. I've never had a seller refuse to look for me.

I'm not trying to poke you in the eye, but you can't complain about information that's available to you before you bid/buy.

Some Sage in my past taught me you never learn from good outcomes. Bad ones offer experience. None of us ever want that experience, but few of us avoid it completely as we mature.

As you're able, shake this one off and move along.

Bob

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

I asked seller about both the grips and reduced shipping. Not a single reply. But once I hit BIN he replied with how to pay very quickly.

Bummer. Last time I bought private party on line was when eBay still let you list firearms...

I was nervous then and I'm even more skeptical now. Sorry it didn't work out. If I can't get a face to face or have someone I know look at it for me, I'll pass.

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- Jeff

All I can see here is you gaining more experience.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

I have bought a lot of guns from auction sites and otherwise online. I have been disappointed a few times, and had sellers misrepresent things, but I have also been pleasantly surprised and even found really good deals..I don't see this situation as one in which you were scammed, as much as a difference in opinion about condition. Shipping guns is expensive and distance doesn't seem to matter much.

All in all, I would see the $65.00 loss as a part of the risk of online transactions in used stuff and compared to being stuck with an $800 gun you didn't like (as would be trtue with a lot of sellers), was almost a bargain.. At least he refunded the purchase price without a hassle.

When condition matters , and matters big time, Never ever buy without putting your eyes and hands on it and carefully inspecting it.
Online transactions are like buying a box of chocolates ....you just never know what you're going to get.
At least you got most of your money back.....
Online buying...it's a gamble and the deck is stacked in the seller's favor. Is it worth the risk ?
Gary

SELLER HAS IT BACK UP FOR SALE WITH NO CHANGE TO DESCRIPTION

I'm not going to recommend what level feedback to leave him, that's up to you. For a lot of buyers, a couple negative feedbacks is the kiss of death when dealing with a seller. But, I would post a feedback describing your transaction with him, and the exact condition of the gun. Leave out embellishments. Just the facts, so other buyers have a fair idea of what they are buying. You know, just to keep him honest...

Like others have said, good feedback, lots of quality pictures, and a phone conversation, or in my opinion, the seller is not serious, at best, and is wasting my time.

Larry

I buy on the line probibly more than I should. I have had disappointments as well. I have also come out really well. Sorry it did not work out for you on this one. At least the seller let you return it. I will mention that I do try and follow / watch auctions of forum members. I will also usually inquire from the seller if they are a member of the forum. I feel sellers on auction sites that belong to the forum are for the most part aiming for a higher standard of honesty in regards to condition. Best of luck in your future auctions. And don't outbid me!!! Unless I'm flat broke due to too may people who did not outbid me!!! If I am in this typical state of finical distress then please outbid me!!!! :-)

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S&WCA #3012

I'm waiting to get my payment back first before I leave feedback...

What do you suggest he do to his ad? The blemish beside the rollmark is pictured. It does not appear to be a misleading ad. He says it's 99% condition.

Mmm.. I also think the ad shows all sides of the gun, and the description includes the shipping price warning.

IDK, you checked it and agree that it is unfired. The bluing is original, the grips match.. I don't think it's a misleading ad because of some very minor wear (on a 39 year old firearm).

Satisfaction = experience - expectations

I believe your expectations were too high.

The seller agreed to take back the gun after being handled by a stranger, no questions asked. For all he knows you may even have shot it.

I'd say it would be fair to think twice before giving negative feedback.

Just my 2 cents.


Sent from my 6039A using Tapatalk

If a seller won't answer or acknowledge my questions, I move along.

Yes, no way I'd buy a gun if the seller fails to respond to a question. Often, they take a long time to respond.

I've bought and sold a few guns on gunbroker, and regretted a few, and, honestly, the mistakes have always been on my side when I was too excited about the gun to think critically about what I was buying. But I've never gotten really hosed on a buy either, just ended up spending more than I should have.

But I've gotten screwed on FTF transactions, too. I bought a gun once on a local gun board, met to buy and because I didn't have good lighting ended up buying a gun that had been cold blued, and pretty badly. The smell should have given it away, but it was late, dark parking lot, and because of the member's good reputation on the forum I didn't take time to really review the gun as I should have. The ad wasn't misleading except that it did not mention the cold blue at all, so I had no one to blame but myself.

I could have kept the gun as I was looking for just a shooter anyway, but I had heartburn about it so could not enjoy the gun as it was. I cleaned it (most of the cold blue wipped off with mineral spirits), shot it once and sold it for a $50 loss.

That's a deal killer for me 100% of the time on anything.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

You should have asked for additional photos. One side of the gun doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Sellers like that really push the limits of honesty. I wouldn't have paid that much with or without the pics. You can leave negative feedback, but you'd have to give some to yourself, as well.

Pitting, muzzle bluing wear along the side, and a scratched cylinder to me is NOT 99%. Am I wrong for thinking that?

I have called, and emailed sellers with questions before I bid. Prime example, My 14-3 pictures were of poor quality on G.B.. Description made it sound wonderful. Upon calling the seller, I was reassured that it was a super nice gun! It became mine! Guess what? Super nice, especially at $410 shipped. Bob

I would return it. I had just one deal on GB where the seller burned me and lied on the phone. He would not take it back and I re-auctioned it with an honest description for a $300 loss. $65 is cheap to close the door on a bad deal.

I think the gun pictured is real close to 99%. You just don't want it. Send it back.

Here's something I learned the hard way too. Take pictures of your own guns and play around with the lighting, distance, etc. You will find that the way someone photographs a gun affects the way you (and other buyers) perceive the quality of the gun. Look for guns that are photographed in a way that misleads buyers into perceiving the guns as a poor value. Stay away from guns that are photographed in a way to hide flaws.

Experience with photographing firearms will help you be a better judge of guns that you cannot get your hands on.

Well luckily he refunded the $40 he charged me on shipping. But not the $25 return shipping because he wasn't honest about the condition. A pitted, scratched, muzzle wear revolver CANNOT be 99% finish. 99% finish is mint minus a turn line or a single spot of flaw.

What type feedback do you guys feel I should leave?

Condition is always subjective. There is always going to be some risk, when buying sight-unseen. I would not leave the seller a negative feedback.

Maybe something to the effect, you, and the seller didn't totally agree on the condition, but the seller worked out your differences equitably.

All things considered. I think the seller was cooperative, understanding, and accommodating, and most of all fair.

I personally would not have bought it, especially since seller did not answer your questions. If a seller will not reply to questions I have, or will not provide additional pictures, I don't buy. There will always be another chance sometime down the road. Better safe, than sorry :-(

I'd probably go with no feedback at all as long as he did. I don't think it was 99% even based on the pictures I saw. But he did refund more than half the shipping.

I think you pulled the trigger too quick (before he responded to your inquiries) and dodged a bullet that it only cost you 25 bucks. 99% is in the eye of the beerholder.

(ETA: Doesn't the seller still eat listing fees or something? Or does he get them all back? He's still out his original outbound shipping.)

There's the problem with percentages. We can both see the the condition of the gun in the pictures and while you see it as 99%, I'd be more in the 90 to 95% range.

The seller probably should have left the percentage out of the description.

I don't think that you have a lot to complain about.

The pitting on the side plate is plainly visible in one of the photos. That is 100% on you.

By scratched cylinder, do you mean the cylinder turn line? As far as the slight cylinder turn line, well, the seller wrote that the revolver was unfired (and you agree with that in your assessment). He never wrote that it was unturned. It is also visible in three of the photos. That is also 100% on you.

You have no beef with the mailing price either. The ad states it's $40. Was that shipping price padded? It sure was, but you knew about it going in. Don't like the terms? Don't hit "Buy It Now".

I will say that a little muzzle blue wear isn't exactly unexpected on a revolver that's probably spent the last 39 years sliding around in a cardboard box, but if it's there to a perceptible degree, the seller should have shown it. That's on him.

The only thing that may have been questionable judgment is his describing it as 99%. Percentages are always subjective. What might be "99%" to one guy might be "96%" to another guy.

I think the seller did well by you by accepting the return without drama and refunding the $40 shipping. He ate the sales fee. Because of that, I don't think that I would leave negative feedback. Perhaps no feedback would be fair.

I miss the pitting, that is on me. No the scratch was a scratch, not a turn line. Muzzle wear was substantial and was hidden well by picture 4 somehow.

I'm just washing my hands of this one and not leaving any feedback. Could have been worse as you say.

Ah. For the most part, I've had no problems buying online, but that's because I buy shooters (nice shooters, but shooters lol). The seller may need to alter his description and/or price then (unless he likes refunding money and eating sales fees) because guys who are willing to drop $800 for a near-pristine K-frame aren't common and they're not going to settle for what you've described.

95% I could live with, but no way on the 90%

...$25 isn't bad to get out of a deal you obviously didn't like...most computers will enlarge photos pretty well...and help see those small defects...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

I have purchased a few items from both of the big auction sites for firearms, on two occasions from as far away as Alaska, and have had very good experiences, and even made some friends, but I ask many questions and make certain I get proper responses in a timely manner, if I don't, I move on to something else. I have also purchased a pistol from another member of this forum and that was an excellent experience as well, but again asking many questions and asking for additional photos from all angles. Not getting a timely answer or not getting an answer that is specifically responsive to the question, is certainly a red flag to move on. However, I go into every on line transaction with the understanding that - it is what it is - an on line transaction, and as someone previously pointed out, what might be an issue for me might not be of concern to someone else and vice versa. Much good advice previously posted by the members of the forum, I would leave it as learning experience.