Okay, dumb question, but gotta ask it.

I just bought a circa 1970, Blued Steel Chiefs special Model 36.

The Instruction Sheet says that it's for .39 Special and Mid range wad cutters.

Can I use +P ammo in it without problems?

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Sure. It is safe in any model marked S&W

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On the Oak Savannah

Yeah, it's perfectly safe. After about 10,000 rounds of the stuff you will notice that the gun has loosened up a bit. By then it will be time to buy another one.

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Dr. B

Your wrist may have loosened up a bit too.

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Eccentric old coot

I have a 1973 vintage Model 36. I figure I have total 2000 rounds through it, at least half of it +pee. I shot some early 70s Super Vel stuff in it, and it is loaded with Buffalo Bore heavy +pee ammo now. The finish is about all gone, but it is still tight.

Really, +pee is worse on the pocketbook than on the gun.

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Georgia On My Mind

I run +P in my 638-3 Airweight. The wife complains about the kick, and a guy at the range wanted to know what I was shooting that sounded so loud and had such a muzzle blast; but the wrists are fine. Good grips are the key.

Been trying to get up to 135 grain hollow points; but 125s is about as much as I can handle so far and stay in the box at 7 yds.

Got a new Ergo grip though that is promising.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Thanks for the feedback.

I've been reading a book by Jim Cirillo and he mentions Super Vee. What is that? Is it the old version of +P ammo?

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

I'm used to the Aluminum J-Frames, they say don't even think about it unless it's a -3. My first 638-3 went out of time and jammed up after about 150 rounds of light .38 special Hornady rounds. Went back to the factory.

I did think the steel guns might be tougher though. This is my first all steel J-frame.

thanks for the feedback.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Okay, sounds good. At 50-100 rounds of mixed target rounds and a few cylinders of my +P HP carry ammo 10k will take longer than I'm likely to hold out.

Thanks for the feedback.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

My full power reloads are a little snappy and my hand/wrist will give out long before the gun. So I practice with target to standard load stuff.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If you look at S&W's table of models and approved ammo you will see
that your 36 is not approved for +P ammo by S&W. Many folks on here
know more about this issue than S&W however and are more than
happy to share their "knowledge". If you're really concerned about it
I suggest you ask S&W rather than forum members.

I think you meant Super Vel, if so the answer is yes. In fact Super Vel could be considered the first and perhaps the only real +P ammo.

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Always Stay Strong!

My understanding is that +P is okay in any S&W with numbered model numbers.

Super Vel started out in the 1960s. 110 grain ¾ jacked HP in 38 specials and I think 115 grain for 357s.

My dad gave me his 1968 Chiefs Special in which he fired many, many rounds of police issue +P ammo. He practiced with some State Police friends, using their ammo of course. I put a bunch more through the little gun when I was learning to shoot.

Today, the timing, carry-up and lock-up are dead on. There is just a bit of end shake, but not enough for a Power Customs bushing, yet. Still looks pretty decent too.

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Virtue,Liberty & Independence

Where would a person find this table of models and approved ammo?

Early this summer I sent my Model 36 in for a little tightning up an tune. The service guy on the phone was very helpful, told me the year of the revolver, and the recommended ammo for it. If you call them they will tell you the year of your gun, and the ammo recommended. That should put your mind at ease. Mine was a 1986 born on date and +p was ok in my firearm. So now I know and I got it for free from the mothership

I've shot Winchester +P in a Chief's Special that shipped in 1952 and it was fine, is fine.

Super Vel







Super Vel chronograph tested a few years back.

2-inch barrel

MV 981 fps
ME 216 ft./lbs.
ES 48
SD 28


4-inch barrel

MV 1195 fps
ME 349 ft./lbs.
ES 55
SD 22

6-inch barrel

MV 1248 fps
ME 380 ft./lbs.
ES 79
SD 45


8 3/8-inch barrel

MV 1301 fps
ME 414 ft./lbs.
ES 89
SD 37

Okay; those look like good numbers. 981 fps is enough to expand most modern HP ammo.

not sure what ES and SD are; but the MV and ME look presentable.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Extreme Spread

Standard Deviation

Just in case someone cared.

Right here.

Attached Images

	CCI04282016.jpg (102.5 KB, 185 views)
	CCI04282016_0001.jpg (104.6 KB, 101 views)

Thanks for posting the chart. At that time, the factory approved .38 + P in any 'steel' K frame .38 Special and .357.

If you ask them currently with the scenario above (steel J frame) they will tell you no, completely understandable in a 40+ year old gun that they cannot examine, but fire away .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

My aluminum J frame has a stainless cylinder and barrel. The barrel is stamped with 38 S&W +P. There are modern .38 revolvers that do not the +P stamp.

So to me this means if your gun does not have the +P stamp on the barrel then S&W will tell you not to chamber them in the gun.

The fact that others use them without issue is information you can use to make your decision. Ammo related problems in the future may not be warranted however if you shoot ammo not approved for your weapon.

Seems like "prior to 1958" is the key for +P. At least the K frames. I have shot +P's in my 1972 Chiefs Special with no ill effects. I don't do a regular diet; maybe a cylinder a year.

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

You will quit WAY before it does!

Firing +P will unleash Balefire, which will not only destroy your gun, it will cause it to have never existed in the first place. The serial numbers of all latter guns will be reduced by one to fill the gap and this post will vanish from the computer.

My all-steel 640 no dash is factory etched "TESTED FOR +P+". When I e-mailed S&W to try to find out how many so marked were manufactured (explaining that I had absolutely no interest in shooting +P+ but was merely curious), I got a boilerplate response that they don't recommend using +P in their J-frames.

Methinks I detect lawyers at work.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Probably has something to do with a few cracked J-frame frames. I will continue to shoot my +P gun with +P ammo however, I would not if it didn't have +P stamped on the barrel.

Is that a quote.

Who was the Author...er Mage who penned it?

;D

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Please no tort talk, let's not bring those carrion flies into the forum.

After all this is a family forum. Right?

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Took the bride to the range and we sent about 150 rounds downrange from the "Blue Gun".

She issued her judgement and it is "I like those first kind of bullets (148grain .38 spcl. S&W Midrange WadCutters) better than any of your hollow points."

So case closed for her use of the Blue gun.

I did go get a box of Black Hills 148 gr .38 spcl HBWC's for her to use if she ever has to shoot it in self defense.

What do you-all know about the Hollow Base wadcutters?

I've seen them written up as the best wadcutters; but don't know why.

Many thanks, guys.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

Hollow base wadcutters will "Minie ball" expand to fit assorted throat and barrel diameters.
They have long bearing surface in the rifling.
They seat flush, reducing airspace over the usual small powder charge, improving combustion and velocity consistency.

As I thought.

Thanks for the confirmation.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

I don't use +P ammo in my model 36. I have found that the difference between standard pressure ammo and +P ammo is not that great when coming out of a snub nosed revolver.

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Have Gun Will Carry

I hear you on that. The short barrel can make a real difference.

I have been carrying Golden Saber 125 grain +P rounds. That's one of the few hollow points that actually expands reliably in standard gel tests.

However, I'm having to rethink that because of the Arthritis in my fingers.

The last time I was at the range I had a flare up and my Grasp Strength was so degraded that I couldn't keep my shots in the 8" box, even at 3 yards.

I'm thinking that I may just follow my wife's lead and switch to the lower recoil 148 grain wad cutters. WC or HBWC loads are made to be target shooting accurate, and the lower recoil means less muzzle flip and quicker recovery times.

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M638-3, M36, USCCA Member

I have heard on several occasions, as well as, I believe, on Wikipedia (yes I know it isn't always accurate, but try changing something on there and make it incorrect and see how long it takes before it's fixed, it's pretty quick. People do monitor the pages as to prevent false information) that back in the days of the old school Smiths, the .38 Special pressure was higher than that of the moder day +p and has since been toned down. If that's true or not, I do not know, and when did they make that change if it is correct, who knows? I have heard that on quite a few occasions and quite a bit on forum pages. Do with that information what you will. I do have to say I'm surprised at how many people are so quick to change out the grips on the old school Smiths. In fact I'm almost disappointed. I under completely though, don't misunderstand me, older people, women or people with hand and wrist problems especially. However, I just can't get over how beautiful a Smith looks with the stock magna grips. Anything from a J frame on up. Even the large target grips on the long barrel 19's and such just don't look good to me. Maybe it's because I have an 1873 6 shooter which has magna type grips, but the 4 inch 19's, 15's, 13's 10's, et cetera, all look absolutely stunning with the magna grips,especially the 19's. Anything over 4" would look weird with them, but I don't like guns over 4" so I guess I won't have to worry about that, but I just could not see myself changing them out. I don't feel like they kick that hard. I have a Taurus 605 which is a J frame sized 5 shot .357 in a 2 inch barrel, and I put Smith style magna grips on it and it is beautiful. .38 Specials feel like shooting a .22, the .357 target rounds weren't much worse, the heavy hollow points I could shoot all day, and the Buffalo Bore 180 grain flat nose lead slugs are the only ones that really rock, but after shooting a whole box of them, my mind never once thought about putting large rubber grips on it. I'm not some big Arnold like creature either, heck I don't even work out, so it's not like I have that in my favor, I just am extremely surprised at how many people dislike magna grips. They are as classic as the guns themselves. I would imagine Smith decided to put those on for a reason, maybe they figured more people would be okay with them. Who knows, maybe they just don't make people like they used to, which I know they don't. Maybe people back in the day were just built stronger and more durable than they are nowadays. I guess maybe it just depends on what you're looking for. If you just want a Smith from the past because they are durable, I guess you wouldn't care about the grips. I love them because they are classic, so I definitely don't want to change the grips. Maybe that's all it is, but they don't hurt my hands. Even the Buffalo Bore heavy lead slugs kick decently, but they don't hurt. I'll never put the original oversized rubber grips back on. Am I alone in feeling this way because from what I see online I'm starting to think so?