So, I cruise into my LGS today to see a Smith Model 25 in 45 Colt with an 8 and 3/8ths inch barrel in the used gun case. Upon inquiry, I see some small cosmetic issues, but the action was a mess! My best guess is a home-done “action job” at a kitchen table. My main impression was, “how did he have room for the gun among all those liquor bottles?”

First clue was the trigger’s failure to return forward from a double action pull.

Second scary evidence was the cylinder’s failure to turn about every other time the trigger was pulled!

I have no words to describe the feeling in the pit of my stomach as cocked it and just gently checked for push off. There must be some objective measure of push off and this poor piece is at the top.

Target trigger, target hammer and Pach grips finish off the package.

After calling attention to these little details, the assistant manager is appearing to need minor first aid and chewing on his tongue to prevent an outburst of profanity (He knows I’m a preacher) regarding which employee took it in trade, then compounded the error by tagging it and putting on the shelf.

Anyway, my question is what is an appropriate offer to make and what might be a ballpark estimate if the whole trigger, sear, hammer, springs, etc. need to be replaced?

I’m supposed to check back tomorrow after he masticates some posterior, although he put it a little less demurely. They had a tag on it with a $650 price.

Among a few other things, it sounds like the trigger rebound spring had some coils cut making it too short. It's an easy fix. Smiths aren't too hard to repair. I'd offer him $500-$550 out the door, and see what he says.

Its worth repairing. Don't pay $650..... I would offer a reasonable amount but certainly much less than the asking price. You will have to mitigate the cost of the gun for the repair. Frank Glenn in Phoenix, Arizona will be able to repair it but it will cost somewhere over a $100. I had one, 8 3/8 barrel was wonderful to shoot and incredibly accurate.

Did it only cycle if the barrel was level or pointed down? If so, the hand isn't under spring tension. That's another easy fix.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Without opening it up and making an assessment of what needs to be pitched out and replaced, I would advise to not pay more than $450 out the door. Could be that the trigger, hand, sear, hammer block, cylinder stop, yoke screw, extractor star and all springs need to be pitched. That is going to be right at $200. I too think this handgun is worthy of being rehabilitated. It is just too iffy to purchase it without a look-see inside if $100/$200 too much is a deal breaker.

IF the owner/manager would allow it, do you have the experience to remove the side plate and look inside right there at the shop? If that is not in the cards, IMHO, again $450 tops. But, there is another way to look at it....... Pay $500/550, get it fixed for $200/250 and in about a year it will have appreciated enough for you to be whole again. I would hate to pass on that handgun for $100 too much. ........ :-)

Probably a dumb question but for my future education - would a broken hammer stud or trigger stud cause any of these issues?

__________________
Patriots Forever!!

I would get it for as cheap as possible. Like Big Cholla said it may need a couple hundred in parts. Some labor too if you are not familiar with working on them. Another issue with model 25s is the cylinder throats. Just what model is it? Barrel pinned? Big throats and barrel pin went away at about the same time. I picked up a 8 3/8 25-5 recently and it has huge throats. I knew so when I bought it and will be replacing the cylinder.

Thing is though that you don't find many S&W 45 colt revolvers and when you do they are usually around a grand or more.

I wouldn't offer more than $450, as without looking inside you may have to replace all the contents. It's hard to guess what Bubba may have filed or stoned on. Changing out springs is easy and reasonably cheap, but the big parts start to add up quickly.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

If he is still there, you have one of the best S&W mechanics in Texas, Frank Smith, in Comanche, TX,

I would be VERY CAUTIOUS!

I do not KNOWINGLY buy problem guns.

Couple of years ago I bought a Smith late Sunday from a dealer at gun show.
I had not checked it close enough.

Two chambers would not reliably advance to LOCK.
Ejector ratchet (is that correct term) was messed up.

I lost my shirt and a pair of boots on that disaster.
Sold CHEAP - took loss.
Would have lost more if had paid to get it fixed.

Bekeart

Just looked at the LSG Website which is kind of sparse on details. As has been noted previously on this forum they are no longer a warranty station for S&W as of 12/15/16. I presume Frank is still the owner although in the "About Us" section it states "Frank opened Lone Star Guns in 1972 in Plano Texas. The company was sold in 2003. LSG Mfg. opened for business in 2004 near Comanche, Texas." I'm reading that Frank sold Lone Star Guns then opened LSG Mfg.

If I lived in Stephenville and had a S&W problem Comanche wouldn't be no long hike and worth it. hardcase60

__________________
You want me to do what?

I don't think it's a dumb question, for whatever that is worth. Although we are all wondering how many parts the previous owner butchered or threw away, it is always possible that he has damaged something a little more expensive. Not that likely, in my uneducated opinion, but possible. IMO, anything you pay for that as is is a gamble. $200 or less is probably a good gamble, and $100 may not be a gamble at all. What could you sell the barrel and cylinder for?

I would definitely want to pop the side plate to see what's going on before buying. If I were the shop owner I would definitely want to do this as well. If you're serious about dealing on this gun, I would make the request so you're not drivgin blind.

You are probably at least looking at replacing the hammer, trigger, all springs, and the strain screw. Deduct that cost from the gun's value based on aesthetic condiction which should inlcude a deduct for missing original grips. If studs are broken, it would be a non-starter for me.

Could be as simple a fix as tightening the mainspring strain screw. When you back it out enough, most of the problems you described will occur.

I would take a slightly different tack. Obviously, this revolver has some problems that need to be addressed. Currently, they are offering for sale a defective handgun that in it's present state is unusable and unsafe. I would give them an option, either arrange to open the side plate in your presence (or allow you to) in order to make an educated offer, or offer to pay the asking price with the understanding that they make the revolver right on their dime. If they can't accept either option, as hard as it may be, I would walk away as quickly as my injured legs would carry me.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

These days if you need a set of very good condition or better target hammer and trigger assemblies it's going to cost you $150 or north of that amount.

A new hand can be purchased rather cheaply compared to a trigger and hammer but fitting it to the gun may take a bit more care and patience.Putting in a hand spring may cause you to utter a few 4 letter words.

All the springs for Model 25s are available and not expensive so I'd start a repair on that gun by replacing the main spring,rebound spring and cylinder stop spring.Look to see if the strain screw had been filed down or is backed out.

The other springs,the bolt plunger spring and the ones inside the cylinder can be replaced if needed but probably won't be needed.

If the mainspring has a rib in it,replace it.

Make sure the ejector rod is tight and the cylinder can be opened without using a lot of presser on the release.Are there tool marks on the ejector rod?

A bent yoke is a serious problem so look for it.

End shake can be corrected with shims.

Look for excessive gouging in the metal between the recoil shield and bolt hole.

Is the gun used or used and abused?

An offer in the $450 range is where I'd be on the gun if I was interested in buying it!

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I buy troubled S&W and Colts quite often. They usually had a
a problem to begin with. Then bubba takes them apart, usually
tearing screw heads and prying off side plate with dollar store
screw driver. I look at it from the standpoint of what the carcass
is worth to me. Owner is looking at parts + labor. I'm not going
to pay the price to break even on value of the gun in repaired
condition. Gun like you described I might offer $200-$250. Most
will take a small loss, before they sink another $150 in repairs.
That is if they are not capable of fixing gun themselves.

Well, I would get it for as much as $500, maybe even $550, but then I have a parts pile and the ability to fix most anything that is wrong with it. But, thats me. Most people don't have that luxury. Free labor makes a big difference.I do it because I enjoy it. Plus, 45s are my favorite.

Since you have no idea what all could be wrong with it, you are taking a big chance on it. The frame might be bent, the barrel pitted, the cylinder damages.
Offer $100. $200 tops. If he won't accept, walk away. You are buying trouble.

While model 25s don't grow on trees around here, I still would be very cautious of buying a gun with such known issues. As a matter of fact that gun shouldn't even be in the display case where some unsuspecting first time buyer may get really burnt. Imagine a person just trying to exercise his Second Amendment right and finding the gun doesn't work at a very bad time. I would offer very low, $250-$300 , if he doesn't take it walk away, and if he keep that defective gun in his display case, I would stay out of his store, and write a sermon about honesty for your Sunday church meeting.

I got permission to take it to my smith, whom I trust completely, and I've done quite a bit (cough, cough) of business in this store.

The smith popped the side plate and pronounced the hammer as "toast," but found the strain screw had been backed out and the rebound spring shortened. The trigger and other parts seemed amazingly undamaged.

He pulled the cylinder off and used some kind of device to check the yoke alignment. He said end shake was negligible and probably within factory spec. As has been astutely pointed out here, replacing the target hammer will be the trickiest part, and maybe the costliest. His bottom line estimate was getting it back in shape for $2-250 depending on the hammer cost.

I went back to the gun store and offered $400 out the door and they accepted so fast I wish I had offered less! But these guys have been good to me and it is nice to have a LGS where they know you by name, know your interests, and haven't lied to me yet (that I have caught).

So, it is in the hands of the gunsmith and he expressed the opinion that it should end up a very nice gun to have when repaired. He offered to give me my money back on purchase price with a big grin.

I'll remember to update and give a shooting report when it comes home. Of course, one sign of a good smith is how long it takes him to get it back. I guess you want to use a busy smith rather than one sitting at his computer playing Solitaire.

Thank you everyone for the good information!

Good deal and I think you hit on the perfect solution. I don't know how many places would let people take a gun to their gun smith and have it checked out, but it with a deal like this it was an excellent solution. In the long run I think you got an excellent deal on a great gun. Plus, I think it was fair to everyone involved.

LOL! Bro, you are a card! I think you made a good deal on your side of the table. Please report back to us when you have paid all the bills and and have shot this rehabilitated handgun on a range. We are waiting for the rest of the story. I'm betting that a new hammer and a new strain screw takes care of the needs. Your grandchildren will be shooting this handgun someday and thinking, "Man o Man, Grandpa knew his guns." ... :-)

Well, the employee who took this in was caught short handed and was distracted when the did the deal. To say he was embarrassed would be an understatement. These folks know me and we have as good a relationship as possible with a retail business. This is still a community where most folks know each other at least a little. I've been pastor of the same little church for 33 years now and reputation, whether good or bad gets around a lot quicker than that!

Last night I found this in the classifieds here on the forum: -Used N .500 Target Hammer $65.00 shipped. I jumped like the proverbial duck on a June bug!

Thanks again everyone, and I'll follow-up when repairs are finished.

You came out on the winning side, Sir! Congratulations.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!