If I understand this comment correctly: You really need a new caliber.

Find that .32 and you'll be a happy camper.

Cheers,

Bob

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

i shall bob.
i can have a real good time shooting 150 or so 22lr.
just can't do recoil.
what i'd really like is my model 15 in 32 caliber.
i love the gun n can certainly hit a torso target center of mass at 25 yards so it does what i need.
but i shoot for fun. for that i need low recoil.

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susie

Low recoil is certainly a feature of 32 caliber - 32 Long is the caliber of choice for most of the international centerfire pistols, precisely because of its combination of excellent accuracy with low recoil.

In my 3" 31-1, Fiocchi 97g FMJ ammo has about 110 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, compared to 96 ft/lbs of energy that I record from Blazer 22LR with 40g lead bullets, out of a 6.5" Ruger Single Six.

If I reload (there's that word again) I can make up 78g lead bullet loads with LESS muzzle energy than 22 rimfire, for about 15¢/round.

i want you guys to understand that i listen to what you tell me.
since you said i need to reload i bot the 'abcs of reloading'.
that's why i don't reload.
it turns out, when you reload, you have to pay attention to what your doing.
that's too much work for me.
the only reason my guns get cleaned is that i do it while watching tv.
i don't mind pulling levers n stuff, but weighing exact amounts puts it in the catagory of unpleasant task.

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susie

Well, you're a good man, Briggs. A good man always knows his limitations. (With credit to Harry Callahan)

So if factory ammo with low recoil is the design parameter, a revolver that takes 32 Long shooting Fiocchi 100g wadcutters sounds like it would fit the bill. Any S&W steel gun that takes 32 Long (or longer) should be a comfortable shooter with that and other 32 Long ammo. Any Ruger should be fine, too.

If it were me, I'd look for a gun that takes 32 H&R Mag rounds, just for the additional flexibility it would offer if the need/desire for something more powerful came along. The cylinders of S&W guns with model numbers on the frame can be reamed from 32 Long to 32 H&R for a modest cost and with quick turnaround by a member of this forum, Big Cholla. There are no safety hazards with a reamed cylinder, even with the most fire-breathing of the H&R loads, the Buffalo Bore +Ps. The 32 Longs would continue to work fine, but there are also a couple of cowboy loads available in 32 H&R which should have tolerable recoil, in case ammo availability becomes an issue again in the future.

If you are patient and walk the local gun shows you will be able to find very good condition model 30-31 for reasonable prices . Last gun show I picked up a 4' MODEL 31-1 FROM A DEALER the second day of the show for under $400. ,no box but looks un fired . Showed it to other dealers and they wondered how they missed it .Another reason to take your time and scour the offerings walk slow and LOOK

hey, guys, when i look up the neat guns you mention, i'm having trouble finding frame size.
is there a way to tell?
the reason i ask is that i'd like to duplicate my k frame model 15 in 32 if i could.
with a red dot kindly supplies by lee. it actually can shoot a one hole group at 25 yards.
when a gun does that benched it makes me work to get close to that freehand.

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susie

It goes by model number. All the M30/M31s are J frames. The M431, M432, M331, M332, and M632 are also J frames.

The Model 16 and the K32 models are K frames.

K frame 32's are hard to find and more expensive.

As for reloading, I'm sort of in your camp. As of right now, it's not worth doing for me. I've done a little of it and don't find it fun. And the amount I save is small enough that if I needed to for financial reasons, I'd rather get a part time job and buy ammo at a store.

But for some it's a fun hobby, and more power to them if they enjoy it.

susie:

I guess by now that you know that the model 15 is exactly like the model 16, except that the 15 is .38 special, and the 16 is .32 Long. The model 16 will weigh an ounce or two more than the model 15, because they are exactly the same external dimensions, but the holes machined out for the .32 are smaller than the holes machined out for the .32, so less metal is removed, which means that the gun (with the same barrel length) will be slightly heavier. Otherwise, assuming that you find a 16 from the same time period as your 15, they should be identical.

This has to be the best solution for you, but as others have pointed out, 16s are scarce, and reflect their rarity in higher prices. You should check and keep checking Gunbroker and othe sites to see what they are selling for. But they seem to be pretty spendy.

I'll let you know if I see any advertised. Do you have a local dealer that will accept shipments from online dealers or auction houses??

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Hi Susie,

I think that the ABCs of reloading scared you unnecessarily. Reloading does require a degree of concentration, but it isn't that bad. Since you are looking at potentially reloading two cartridges, I would suggest that you consider the following. You can tailor your ammo to your needs, and keep shooting pleasant and affordable.

As I see it, you would need 3 pieces of hardware: a tumbler for cleaning your brass, a powder measure to set your powder dispenser, and a Dillon Square Deal B with a set of 38 Special dies, and possibly a conversion kit for 32 S&W Long. Realistically, once you set the meter on the powder dispenser, you may never need to change the charge unless you change powder or want a stiffer load.

With the Dillon Square Deal B, once it is set up, you can load 250-300 rounds in an hour. You could run the SDB while watching TV, but it would not be advisable. Once you set the SDB up, it is just a matter of feed the primer tube, feed the cases, crank the lever, place a bullet. Realistically, every crank of the handle and you produce a complete round of ammo.

With the SDB you don't have to weigh every single charge. Once you set the powder cavity, it does take a lot to change the cavity setting.

Figure that a pound of powder can load 2000-2500 very light recoil rounds, cost per can of about $28. A thousand S&B primers would be $24. Hornady swaged 38 HBWC run about $0.10 a bullet at Cabela's. Forgetting the set up costs, you can load a light 38 Wadcutter for about $0.013 (powder), $0.024 (primer), and $0.10 (bullet) for a total cost of $0.14 per cartridge, or $7 a box. If you are paying $0.25 a round, you are saving about $5.50 a box, or easily $22 in an hour of reloading. Figure that if you are loading 32s, your cost will be a bit less.

One of the points that you need to keep in mind is that the heavier the revolver, the lighter the felt recoil. Switching to an I or J framed revolver with light 32s could give you the same recoil as you perceive in your K38 Combat Masterpiece with powder puff 148gr wadcutter loads.

Another option, could be looking at a 4" Model 18 (22LR Combat Masterpiece) or a 4" Model 48 (22WMR Combat Masterpiece). Recoil should be comparable to a 32 S&W Long, without the reloading, and you have a twin to your Model 15. On the plus side, the "Evil Bunnies" will never know the difference with a solid hit.

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Judge control not gun control!

...K frame + .32...seems to equal $$$...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

thanks, cal. now i know how to find a k frame.
the bad news is i see a model 16 for $1500 minimum bid.
i can't afford that.like paradise said, pricey.
les, there is a local ffl that will take delivery. that's how i got my 15.
irr, are you telling me the dillon is set charge once n forget it?
for sure?
if that's true the whole thing becomes more appealing.
remember, not everyone thinks this is a fun hobby.
i won't enjoy it but i can push myself to do it if i don't need to measure.
a powder measure is a scale?
why must i clean brass?. i don't need pretty rounds.
is your list 100% of everything i'd need?
if i do this at all, i'd want to do 1,000 rounds/month at one time, to get it out of the way, with a minimum of fuss.
i'm paying 40 cents/round for the wadcutters my m15 likes.
and, it will hurt less?
i just want a bullet to leave the barrel n get to the target accurately.
it can lob like a mortar.

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susie

Suzie,

The tumbler is used to clean your brass of range dirt and powder residue. In all honesty, cleaning your brass is a necessity in order to prolong the life of your reloading dies.

The way the Dillon Square Deal B works, is that the powder reservoir pours powder into a sliding bar that has a screw adjustable cavity that "sets" the volume of powder that flows from the reservoir to the casing. Once you set the cavity, it is pretty much a set and forget proposition. I would mass/weigh the powder charge of about the first ten rounds, then only recheck the volume/weight when I start a new can of powder. Once you get the load that you want, it is not an absolute necessity to verify the actual charge.

The list of hardware that I listed is pretty much complete. The only thing I didn't list is a reloading manual, think of it as a cookbook! The biggest variables are the powder and the bullet selected. Once you find a bullet that you like, I would purchase the largest quantity possible. The same with powder, get the largest quantity of the same lot as you can afford, to minimize your variables.

Suzie, when you reload, you can have a greater effect on the recoil. When I loaded with Bullseye, I would use a load of 2.8gr with the 148gr HBWC. When I load WW231, I use about 3.2gr with either a 148gr HBWC or a 148-150gr Button nose or Double End wadcutter. Recoil in my Model 14s is negligible, as is the recoil when fired in my Chief's Target Special. Honestly, you shouldn't experience any type of recoil generated pain from the recoil of a wadcutter load.

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Judge control not gun control!

why a reloading manual?
won't you guys tell me the right proportions?

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susie

Suzie,

You can always get recipes on the net now. And yes, many of us will share age old recipes. Reloading manuals come in handy when you decide to experiment or change components. One of the best manuals that I use is the long discontinued RCBS Cast Bullet Handbook. Since I cast about 99% of the handgun bullets that I shoot, it is a much better reference for me than the manuals from the jacketed bullet manufacturers.

Oneof the big reasons for a reloading manual is powder availability and selection. Not all of us use the same powder or recipe.

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Judge control not gun control!

Suzieq - as a user of two (2) Dillon Square Deal B presses (as well as a Lee Loadmaster, which is another, more versatile but more finicky progressive press) and several different single stage presses, I'll certainly agree that the Square Deal is probably the best value (usability/output/price) progressive press if you only want to load a lot of rounds in a single caliber.

I started with one in 9mm when I used that caliber in IDPA matches, but when I switched my competition guns to 38 Special revolvers, I bought a second Square Deal rather than convert the first one, as the conversion process is nontrivial. My Loadmaster, as a counter example, can switch from one caliber to another in 3-5 minutes (once you've done it a few times) without tools, as can the other (more expensive) Dillon presses, the Hornady LNL press, and probably a few others. That's not a knock on the Square Deal - it was designed to be an economical fully progressive press for pistol length cartridges, not a do-it-all progressive like the others. (BTW, both of my Square Deals were bought used, and both came in calibers I didn't want. In each case I ordered the appropriate caliber conversion kit from Dillon and set up the press in the caliber I wanted, then packaged the old parts for the caliber I didn't want and sold the package on ebay for about $10 less than I paid Dillon for the new caliber kit. So if you shop for a used press, don't worry about finding one in 32 caliber.)

Second, although a Dillon Square Deal will be pretty simple to run once you get it set up, and will get simpler as you get more experience, you should NOT assume it will be a plug and play device out of the box. Download the owner's manual from the Dillon site http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon%20Manua...l_may_2007.pdf, go through it, and see what you can expect to have to do to get it running the first time. (Note especially the need - I would say the absolute necessity - of a solid bench to mount the press on.) None of the setup is hard, and Dillon has world class service that is just a phone call away - they will talk you through any setup steps you don't understand, but you're going to be the person doing the work.

Third, you correctly translated lrrifleman's "powder measure" to mean a scale, which is one of the mandatory tools you'll need. I prefer the mechancal simplicity of a beam scale (having owned and used a Dillon electronic for many years) and find the Ohaus 5-0-5 design to be perfectly satisfactory. It has been sold for decades, mostly under RCBS brand but also as a Dillon and (I think) a few others, although only the Dillon seems to be currently cataloged. Still, Ebay is usually awash with used ones - you have to be careful there, but if not abused these scales tend to run pretty much forever. (We all have an unlimited supply of laboratory-grade gravity.) Sometimes you can find a Lyman M5 scale for not much more than a 505 style - it's what I graduated to and now use with great satisfaction.

As lrrifleman noted, you use the scale to adjust the volume setting on the powder measure when you set up to load a certain weight with a particular powder. When you first fill an empty powder measure with powder, it will take a certain number of press cycles to settle the powder in the reservoir to the point where the measure throws the same weight each time. (I usually throw 20 charges to settle things down.) Then you will throw a charge and weight it, pour the powder back into the measure, adjust the powder measure a bit, and do it again until you are throwing the weight you want. Then throw 10 charges and put 'em all in the scale pan - see if you get 10x the weight you're shooting for (within +/-0.3g or so). Tweak the powder measure as needed, and finally start loading. Thereafter, check a cartridge periodically - I'm to the point where with the powders I use I only check every time I add primers, as it's always consistent.

IN ADDITION, the usual advice is to NOT store powder in a powder measure for long. You can leave powder in the measure overnight if you're going to keep loading tomorrow, but for much longer, pour the powder back into its original bottle and seal it up. Next time you set up and refill the powder measure, go through the charge-20-cases (I charge 1 case 20 times) and pour the powder back into the measure, then throw and weigh a charge to be sure the measure is still throwing the right weight. It SHOULD, if you haven't adjusted the measure in the meantime (powder measure adjustment knobs are too stiff to be moved accidentally) but you want to be sure before you start.

I mention all this scale stuff because you said earlier you didn't want to have to measure everything. Well, you DON'T have to measure every round if you use a progressive press, but you DO have to measure things before you start running a session, and you SHOULD measure periodically during a session to be sure things haven't changed.

Fourth, you should add a caliper to your list of needed tools. Overall length is one of the specifications for cartridges, which you control by adjusting the bullet seating depth. You only have to do this once for a particular bullet design and weight, but if you change bullets (which reloading allows you to do easily) you will need to check (and almost certainly readjust) the seating depth. Cartridge overall length dimensions are given to 0.001", so you don't do it with a ruler. A caliper is the correct tool to use. These are precision devices, so you tend to get what you pay for. The most commonly encountered high-quality names are Brown & Sharpe, Starrett and Mitutoyo. Digital is convenient, but a dial caliper works just fine for reloading, and 6" models of all 3 good brands can be found on ebay for well under $100. You can even get a new Mitutoyo digital for under that price (it's what I use, although I started with a Starrett dial caliper.) Do NOT even think about vernier calipers, despite the fact that they will be the least expensive.

I don't say all this to discourage you. I load 32 H&R rounds for ~15¢/round (primer, powder & coated lead bullet) and get the power (and recoil) I want with the bullets I choose. Output is substantial once I get everything set up to run, but starting up does require some checking before you start pulling the handle in earnest.

So I'd still encourage you to pursue the idea of reloading your own ammo. But just do it with eyes wide open. And remember that there's always a vast reservior of support available here for the asking.

when you say mount the press does that mean it has to be screwed down to something?
tat would be a problem.
second, why can't i store the powder in the machine n avoid all that extra measuring?

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susie

Download the manual. Look at page 7, Fig 2, for a picture of how the press has to be attached. The 3 screw holes that mount the press are pretty close together. You're doing a LOT of work with that lever every time you press it down, so the mechanism has to be solidly mounted to something so the lever has resistance to work against.

That said, the press can be mounted to something rigid which is then clamped to a solid table when it's time to reload. For example, the "legs" that the press on the cover of the manual is shown as mounted on (Dillon sells it as a Strong Mount) could be screwed solidly to a thick piece of plywood. To reload, that plywood would then be clamped to something solid like a table (not a dining room table, though) or even some substantial sawhorses (not Workmates.) My own presses are each screwed to a 3/8" thick steel plate, with a hole in it so I can hang the press in the ceiling of my basement when not in use. The one I want to use is clamped to my workbench.

As for storing powder in a powder measure, I think best practice says not to do it, at least not for very long. But if you want support for just leaving the powder in the measure, there are guys here who will tell you it's OK. Leaving powder in powder measure

thanks. i guess i wouldn't need to empty powder, there's seldom any moisture in the air on the high plains.
noplace to attach a press. my only work bench has a chop saw on it. with a cast iron bed, i can't move it.

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susie

Do you think! Yep, any K-frame 32= big bucks after a long search. That's why I had my own built... not for the faint of heart.

Froggie

Powder can downgrade due to the plastics in the measure. I would not change settings but plan on emptying it. I used to have a plan for an apartment reloading set up. Basically it was a storage box that opened 90 degrees and the press attached to the box. It may still be out on the net somewhere.

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Front sight and squeeze

Walter o, you're a good man! Learning how to work a gun show is an acquired skill and I bet all the complainers here who don't like gun shows have never bothered to learn. Besides the obvious of taking cash, my best skill is to walk all the small shows twice, walking both ways! What you learn is the show looks entirely different from the other direction. It might have to do with things being hidden behind or under other stuff. It also could have to do with us focusing on things of interest we see first, and then ignoring things we just don't see.

Oh, and this is thread drift!

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Dick Burg

Susieqz,

You can permanently bolt your press and powder measure to a short piece of 2x6 that's portable. With two C clamps, you can clamp the board for your once a month loading session, to any table. When you're done remove it and put it in the garage.

32s take very little effort on the press handle to reload. You should get a .32 die set that includes a carbide sizing die. This eliminates having to grease the cases to resize them, and the carbide die reduces the amount of pressure to pull the press handle.

You can find everything you need on ebay for used prices. Lee loading equipment is about the least expensive that you can buy.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

susieqz, while a K-32 4" would be ideal for your purposes, I think you could probably do as well with an older .32 Regulation Police. The frame is a bit smaller, but the RPs have a larger grip that the other small frame .32s. The larger RP factory grip is closer in size to the K frame that you prefer. I saw one in a pawn shop in Birmingham AL last week for $400. It had a 4 1/4" barrel and while the blue was a bit worn on the barrel, overall it looked like a good shooter.

While I have been reloading for 44 years and find it a rewarding hobby, you might be better off looking for .32 Long ammo on line and spend your money on it rather than reloading. Save your brass and you can always get into reloading at a later date.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I read through all of this discussion and might have missed it but have you considered a heavier revolver in .38 special as a way to deal with recoil? .38 specials fired out of an N frame have pretty minimal recoil. However, the weight of the gun may be a problem for you. If you dive off the back of a small row boat, you go one direction and the boat goes significantly the other direction. If you dive off the back of a cruise ship, you go one way and the boat stays put. The heavier gun will resist moving rearward. (recoil)

susieqz,

If you really want a fine 32, what you really need is to build your own like I did...

Project 616

then you'll have a 32 that will do it all! "Model 616, the gun S&W should have built but never did."

Froggie

I had a Ruger SP101 327 magnum and sold it. I had several ammo boxes of 32 S&W that had no takers when I tried selling them. So I bought a Colt Police Positive Special in .32 caliber Colt NP CTG for around $300. The 32 in this steel revolver isn't much different than shooting 22lr for recoil.
I have seen a few old S&W in .32 S&W caliber for around $250-$300. They are out there. One site I checked there were some sold in the last 3 months. 1-17,2-17,3-17 and they each sold for around $250. I have seen some ads asking over $1200.
.32 S&W box of 50 count cost around $20 last time I bought some.
I believe you will like shooting the .32.

For you 32 shooters Lapua at one time made both match lead bullets and brass for the 32long which I believe was used for match shooting. I would not be suprised if Lapua still sold both bullets and brass. Might be worth checking out. Frank

Lapua makes loaded 32 long ammo. 98 gr wadcutter.

Lapua bullets are in stock at Midway, but the 32 Long brass is not, at the moment. I get the best long range accuracy in my 223 bolt gun with Lapua brass, but I suspect I would have to be a lot better handgun shot than I am to see a difference in accuracy on targets between Lapua and Starline brass.

susieqz, you need read this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...75-32-s-w.html

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

thanks, muley.
i read it.
i just don't know how you guys find great prices.

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susie