I was just on an auction site and saw a nice Model 58 .41Mag in great shaped but it is stamped with police dept initials. This brings up a question I've wondered about for some time. Does this stamp add or detract from the value of the handgun and if so about how much? 10%? 20%? Total non issue?

I'm not talking about collectables original in the box with papers etc. Shooters in good shape.

I also wonder if whether the markings jurisdiction is red or blue makes a difference?

__________________
NRA Benefactor

Short of some sentimental value I always thought it defaced them. I bought a firearm trade-in with my own department logo stamped on it that I found nostalgic, but I personally see no extra value in one stamped with some obscure department's initials from Idaho.

__________________
- Change it back -

I like them and so do a lot of other collectors. I traded a plain mod 58 for a SAPD marked mod 58. I've got several PD marked guns, including a 3" model 65 marked BRPD (Baton Rouge) and a few marked riot guns.

Because I take the opposite position, I hope there are more folks in your camp than mine.

.....and where is that marked 58 exactly????

Best,
Charles

Increases value based on my years of reading this forum.

__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065

I'm with Charles.

It does depend on the type of marking a bit. I've passed on guns where it looked like the department armorer decided to do the marking with an electric pencil after having too much "punch" at someone's retirement bash. On the other hand, there are beautiful scroll markings of complete department names on the backstrap for which I'd happily pay more than the condition of the gun could possibly justify. Which department it is also makes a difference. It's a judgment call.

But it is a collector's niche. Someone on the forum here lost a potential few hundred dollars not too long ago when he posted a marked gun, and when it didn't sell right away he dropped the price precipitously until it did. I never even had time to notice his posting, or I would have jumped on it and happily paid his initial asking price. Had he understood the niche appeal of his gun, he likely wouldn't have been so impatient.

Being a M1 carbine collector I know a lot of folks make money off of faking USGI proof marks on otherwise run of the mill M1 carbines. Maybe there's a market for faking LE markings on old junk revolvers.

__________________
- Change it back -

Some attempts are known but generally there doesn't seem to be enough money in it, unlike US government markings (besides the M1 you mention, US PROPERTY on Colts 1903 and 1908 are another big issue) or especially Nazi markings, which are enthusiastically faked and for which you can buy professional tools, like from these helpful folks:

Stamps for german weapons - period to 1945 - Waffenamt shop

Pictured below is a crude attempt to "fake" an NYPD marking; no such marking ever was applied by that agency, and ironically the gun DID ship to NYPD, which I was able to ascertain through another source before buying it quite cheaply.

Attached Images

	IMG_2999.jpg (60.5 KB, 243 views)
	IMG_3410.jpg (109.0 KB, 249 views)

I used to own a model10 RHPD that was about 95% because they were issued, then soon replaced with autos. That one I'd like to have back. The Detroit PD used to issue nickle revolvers so stamped that are collected by some and bring a premium. I don't like agency stamping but it's not a deal breaker.
I bought a used 19.5" nickle once that had a case number etched on the frame under the grip. Turned out an old gent killed himself with it. His family thought enough of him they retrieved it from the PD after the matter was settled and sold it to a gun store. Kinda spooky.

I am kicking myself for not buying a Model 58 that was marked SFPD that I saw at a gun show about 10 years ago. It was one of the San Francisco issued guns and I would have treasured it just to thumb my nose at Dianne Feinstein, former mayor of SF and avowed gun hater. I do have a really cool old M&P from 1934 that is factory engraved on the backstrap MASS. STATE POLICE and letters as such. I figure it is worth a premium over an equal condition 1930's M&P.

I've bought my share of old revolvers but never a real junker. I've always bought shooters, so if the gun is junk I don't care if it bears the engraved signature of Melvin Purvis.

Caveat emptor, and all that. I'm sure there are fakes, as there are in most fields of collecting if there's money to be made.

For a pure shootin' gun, the presence or absence of police markings is immaterial to me. I've never bought them with resale value as a primary consideration. Never could afford to be a collector.

__________________
Oh well, what the hell.

To someone that collects police guns then it could increase the value especially in an auction with competing bidders.

For the average shooter I would think it does nothing because you are buying a tool and not a piece of art. I believe that with the added lettering it will still go bang.

Too a purist collector looking for as close to NIB with papers it would be a pass with or without the marking.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

I would pass on any gun stamped with initials.

Agency markings to me, fall under the heading of no harm no foul. If I found a firearm I wanted at a fair price that was neatly marked I'd buy it. But, I would not pay a premium for it.

__________________
Always Stay Strong!

Doesn't do anything for me one way or the other. If the stamping is poorly done, it's a deal breaker. Otherwise, same value to me as a non-stamped pistol.

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I grew up in CA and thought it would be cool to have a SFPD marked 58 until I saw how much they were going for $$$. I don't think there is a set answer for the police marking value question. Depends on the gun and the department.

__________________
Jim
Many K and N Frames

I like guns in original untouched condition so any markings on them a a big turnoff to me and I'll pass on the buy unless it's a super price and would make a nice range gun.

There's a no dash 66 2.5" snub nose in the classifieds with a PD stamping on the left side that turned me off from offering to buy it at the asking price.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I purchased a police marked gun last year for $329. It looked like it was marked up by a drunken sailor using a nail. It is a model 3906, an interesting pistol, and so I bought it. If the price were any higher, I would have passed as the markings definitely did not add value in my opinion.
Kim

Attached Images

	MVC-890S.JPG (41.4 KB, 119 views)
	MVC-891S.JPG (31.6 KB, 166 views)

Sir, there are no obscure departments in Idaho.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

There is a guy that shoots at the range I do that collects the used police weapons .. don't know how many he has but more then a few (10) He was shooting a Beretta one day I talked to him and the pistol looked brand new .. I had commented that one day I would like to get one .. and he showed me the one he was shooting ..

Said they were a good way to get a new to almost new pistol many times .. the bad ones he writes off as luck of the draw and sells .. if you look at the comments on used police pistols on Bud's many say the pistol looks new and hadn't been carried .. then others say that the one they received had wear marks on it ..

haven't seen any say they didn't shoot good !!

Guess it depends if you want a brand new straight from the factory pistol or just a shooter with some possible wear ..

looks like he used a had scribe .. not the proper way to do it .. the ones I have seen looked like they were stamped .. or etched ..

Still it makes a nice carry pistol worth the $329 ..

guess I got lucky, couple weeks ago I bought a mod. 15-3, nice and tight, shoots good, little rough in a couple of places but don't hurt the shooting of it..I like shooters. price was right, about what other ones of like shape and vintage are going for around here.

marked OR. CO.CA. I guess it means Orange County California. that's my story and I'm sticking to it..

Although such markings are marks of honor as far I am concerned I do not feel they increase or decrease value much at all unless it's a scarce variant model. With that said I did get a rather good deal on two of them. One a RHKP marked M-10, the counter guy seeing me examine the markings said someone stamped their initials on the back strap and could give me a deal on it. Another was a M-64 that was "neutered" to DA only and no one would buy it, offered me a great deal on it. Both are in the safe of course!

__________________
Stay safe people!

If I'm buying it lowers the value, if I'm selling it raises the value.

Bankers Specials are pretty rare to start with, but knowing that this one was issued to the Boston Police Department in the 1930s makes it more valuable to me. But I still shoot it, and it is a slick little gun, made in a different era when craftsmanship was paramount!!





Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Not exactly sure of your question, so I'll answer it twice. The location of the model 58 is with me. The location of SAPD mark is stamped on the frame on the left side under the cylinder. It does not appear to be S&W markings, most likely stamped by someone at SAPD.

Contact ringo1957 on this site-he collects Austin P.D. guns, and can most likely tell you what you want to know.

I'm at 150 + marked revolvers w/ at least one from each state. It is an addiction!

Nice Banker's Special Les! I have one from the Post Office Railway Mail Service.

Best
Charles

I got a model 58 that had some serious holster wear. Figured for sure it would letter to a PD. It didn't, I was disappointed. I'd have paid more for it if had been PD marked.

__________________
Go West young man..

That just swayed the vote.

__________________
Dum vivo cano

My latest find (Some here may remember me showing this off in a separate thread a while ago). Because the photo of the backstrap in the auction was dark and blurry, none of the other dozen bidders seems to have noticed the US stamping in addition to the Metro DC police stamp; the US stamp elevates the value by a few hundred dollars at least.

Attached Images

	IMG_4132.jpg (94.9 KB, 160 views)
	IMG_4221.jpg (95.1 KB, 126 views)

Les did you letter the gun to Boston or are you assuming Boston PD? We have a Massachusetts member that specifically collects BPD guns if it's for sale.

His handle is ( Ben Cartwright SASS )

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

I like department stamped guns, a local pawn shop had a T.P.D. stamped model 681 revolver last time i was there and they know i have a weakness for revolvers.

Thanks, James, no, I haven't lettered it, but I've been in touch with Ben Cartwright, and he believes that the markings are consistent with Boston's. and no, it's not for sale right now. I really like the little guy. Long story on how I got it in the first place, traded it off, and got it back again.

Best Regards, Les

__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les, that's a Boston gun, take it to the bank. Great find!

I bought this 10-5 with original box from Joe Salter a few years back an, of course, paid too much. But I liked it, and how often do you come across a round butt snub model 10. This one is marked S.C.P.D. amd Joe said it was for Suffolk County P.D. I posted it on the forum and it attracted an officer that was currently working at that dept. He took my serial number and visited the armorer and they dug through his files and found the card for this gun. It shows it was purchased from J. Tobler on 5/2/68 and issued to Lt. Charles Neis on 5/10/68 and gifted to him at his retirement. Almost better than a Jink letter!

__________________
Get off my lawn!

I didn't want to say anything until the auction was over but the gun that I was talking about was SFPD marked and well done, too. It had the slight cylinder turn but otherwise looked very lightly used. Went for about $1,000 which was over my price as the marking didn't add anything for me.

It's really annoying for police collectors if there is an interesting agency they would like to add to their collection, but the underlying value of the gun is too high to spend the money. I'd love an SFPD-marked revolver, but have no inclination at all to spend a thousand bucks on a nice Model 58.

There was a wildlife agency somewhere in the West that issued Pythons sometime in the 1970s. They had a really pretty logo they embossed on the guns. Forgot which agency. But the one I came across that was for sale had a Python price on it. Forget that !

What would a nice model 58 be worth without any LE marking?

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

My NYSP (NY State Police) model 681 originally distributed by the oldest gun shop in the country (I have read)
located in downtown NYC and still open with different ownership.

Yes, it was a nice gun and I would have liked it but the price was way over what it was worth to me. The only member here that pm'd me on it expressing interest I sent the link to the auction for him to decide on it.

I paid about $600 for one that was in really good shape and had the box, papers etc. Worth it to me but maybe not to you.

That actually sounds like a pretty good price. I only skim the auction sites for this model because there are just not that many that fall into my area of interest, so I haven't researched actual sold prices, but starting bids in the 700/800 range and buy-nows of around 1500 are common.

There was a wildlife agency somewhere in the West that issued Pythons sometime in the 1970s. They had a really pretty logo they embossed on the guns. Forgot which agency. But the one I came across that was for sale had a Python price on it. Forget that !
Not a python...but I love these 4006's from California state parks. I would pay extra to get one. The bear logo is awesome!

Attached Images

	wm_3092905.jpg (76.2 KB, 71 views)
	5_4006.jpg (19.3 KB, 81 views)

__________________
S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

Those are pretty neat. If I remember correctly, rangers could buy their issue gun for something like 160 bucks when the state went to the M&P 40 around 2009 or so. I have a now retired friend who kept his. Then a whole batch showed up on the surplus circuit, at Bud's and such, a few years later, priced in the 300s. Since then, one doesn't see them much. Since California only has 3- or 400 armed rangers statewide, there probably just aren't that many to be had.

I own a 5906 TSW with a Stamp. Its in great shape. But i was always under the assumption, perhaps false, that it detracted from the value as it may not have been well cared for. Mine looks and fires great, and I bought it in a package deal at a nice price

Attached Images

IMG_1007.JPG (114.1 KB, 64 views)

__________________
Just hanging with my dogs

I don`t specifically seek out police marked guns but I have a few and I can`t ever remember having paid extra for the markings. I`m kindof torn on them because on one hand it`s interesting to think about where the guns have been and what they may have been through but on the other hand I`ve always been opposed to the idea of carrying issued guns that look like everyone else`s and that someone else picked out for me. I`ve only ever briefly worked for one agency that issued a certain gun (Glocks) and didn`t authorize any others even as backup guns. (my concealed backup 9mm wasn`t authorized, but I figured I would worry about that if I survived whatever ordeal that caused me to have to use it). Even if I were issued something I have and would choose to carry myself like a nickel model 27, 1911, or Colt Python I would probably still wish I had more options.

I do wish though that a few years back at the big Tulsa show I hadn`t passed on one of the traded in California Youth Authority 3 inch model 64`s marked "CYA" on the frame because the obvious double meaning. I convinced myself I didn`t need one since I already had a couple 3 inch 65`s, 10`s, and 13`s. I did have one sent to a local dealer for my cousin who was looking for a good house gun though-maybe I can trade her out of it one day.

...my Dad worked for the Post Office Railway Mail Service...sorting mail on trains traveling between Denver and Amarillo Texas...I don't know if he carried a revolver or not...and there's nobody left alive that could tell me...I have a feeling if he did...he probably didn't tell my Mother...

__________________
A Country Boy Can Survive

Yes, a good price. I got is a couple of years ago before the prices started to follow the Colt insanity. Smiths are getting into the crazy price territory and deals are becoming harder to find. The 38sp's can still be had reasonably if you get the right deal at the right time but the others are getting out of hand