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Old 04-18-2017, 08:53 PM
JustDave JustDave is offline
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problem with 66 no dash. problem with 66 no dash. problem with 66 no dash. problem with 66 no dash. problem with 66 no dash.  
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Default problem with 66 no dash.

i have a 66 no dash i inherited from dad. it is tight and locks up good. The cylinder stop starts dropping as the trigger is pulled and just before it clears it pops back up just enough to catch the cylinder on two of the chambers. i put a video of it here.
Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Been reading a few months and decided to just ask today. thanks
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:09 PM
g8rb8 g8rb8 is offline
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I am not a gunsmith and have never encountered the problem you display but logically there is likely a problem with the hand and/or the ratchets on the back of the cylinder.

I doubt it sheds any light but I wonder if you have the same problem with ammo or snap caps in the cylinders?

A close up picture of the ratchets on the back of the cylinder may shed some light on the problem.

Other more knowledgeable may be able to advise you on how to best check out the hand.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:35 PM
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After the internals have been cleaned and you have verified the integrity of the cylinder stop spring, if the cylinder stop comes up to early, either the bevel and point of the stop is worn, or improperly fitted.....or the hook on the trigger is worn/altered.

If the tip of the bevel on the cylinder stop is too short, as it interfaces with the hook on the front of the trigger (as the trigger is pulled back), the stop returns up too quickly, and the ball of the stop re-enters the stop slot before it can rotate out of the way. It can also demonstrate this stoppage when the stop does not get removed from the cylinder stop slot in time....or is "late". This can also be due to a worn tip on the bevel of the stop, or wear or alterations to the trigger hook.

The "simple" fix is to fit a new stop. You can let out the existing stop by moving it back slightly (toward the trigger) on the stem, but the fix will be a temporary one at best. Fitting a new stop is not as simple as it seems, as the ball of the stop has to verified to fit, or modified to fit the smallest cylinder stop slot, (there are minor differences in width of the cyl stop slots) and then the bevel on the stop itself has to be fit to the trigger hook so that the stop moves up and down, and back and forth, with the proper timing. If the hook on the trigger has been damaged or altered, a new trigger may be required.

I have also seen this happen when there was a missing extractor alignment pin (or pins) under the the extractor. Does it also do this when loaded with empty casings? Severe end shake on the cylinder can also be a potential contributor, as can damage to the hand or ratchets.

Since there are potentially multiple issues involved, I would suggest taking it to a local, trained and trusted gunsmith familiar with S&W revolvers. S&W Customer Service would also be an option......1-800-331-0852
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
After the internals have been cleaned and you have verified the integrity of the cylinder stop spring, if the cylinder stop comes up to early, either the bevel and point of the stop is worn, or improperly fitted.....or the hook on the trigger is worn/altered.

If the tip of the bevel on the cylinder stop is too short, as it interfaces with the hook on the front of the trigger (as the trigger is pulled back), the stop returns up too quickly, and the ball of the stop re-enters the stop slot before it can rotate out of the way. It can also demonstrate this stoppage when the stop does not get removed from the cylinder stop slot in time....or is "late". This can also be due to a worn tip on the bevel of the stop, or wear or alterations to the trigger hook.

The "simple" fix is to fit a new stop. You can let out the existing stop by moving it back slightly (toward the trigger) on the stem, but the fix will be a temporary one at best. Fitting a new stop is not as simple as it seems, as the ball of the stop has to verified to fit, or modified to fit the smallest cylinder stop slot, (there are minor differences in width of the cyl stop slots) and then the bevel on the stop itself has to be fit to the trigger hook so that the stop moves up and down, and back and forth, with the proper timing.

I have also seen this happen when there was a missing extractor alignment pin (or pins) under the the extractor. Does it also do this when loaded with empty casings? Severe end shake on the cylinder can also be a potential contributor, as can damage to the hand or ratchets.

Since there are potentially multiple issues involved, I would suggest taking it to a local, trained and trusted gunsmith familiar with S&W revolvers. S&W Customer Service would also be an option......1-800-331-0852
Excellent advice as always. My first though was the cylinder stop or the front bevel of the trigger.

Just a thought though, and this may indicate the problem is a little deeper than just the stop or trigger, but if it was the stop/trigger wouldn't it exhibit this problem EVERY time. The stop and trigger bevel don't change just because the chamber does. So it wouldn't make sense that it does this on only 2 chambers. It should be all of them.

Perhaps the stop is not fully disengaging those 2 cylinder notches and that is why it is locking up. It would have been nice to have the camera focused on the stop to see its movement.

The amount of travel the stop needs to move to unlock the cylinder isn't that much, and if the stop is slipping off the trigger that quickly causing it to lock back in the notch, you would definitely think it would do this on all chambers.

Check to make sure its not beginning cylinder rotation before the bolt is withdrawn fully, instead of slipping off and popping up.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:02 PM
JustDave JustDave is offline
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thanks for the info. i just put an .011 feeler gage between the cylinder and frame then rotated it. it would bind on two of the cylinders. here is a video of that.
I will probably send it for repairs but i am just looking at all the options first. Thanks
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:29 PM
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Concentricity, or the lack in this case, would be an indication that the cylinder/yoke assembly may not be perfectly in line with the center pin hole in the frame, or the point of rotation. The relatively minor inconsistency shown in your video would not directly cause/contribute to the malfunction your gun is demonstrating.

You can tell if the cylinder stop is too early or too late by closing the empty cylinder, preferably containing one or more empty casings or snap caps, then turning the gun on it's side so that you can view the action of the stop, (see between the frame and the cylinder in the location of the cylinder stop) and slowly pulling the hammer or trigger back.

If the stop is early it will go down out of the stop slot in the cylinder and pop immediately back up, locking the cylinder. If the stop is late, or "catches", it will only partially go down out of the stop slot prior to the hand beginning to turn the cylinder....the top of the ball of the stop will catch on the cylinder slot. (latter being the most likely scenario)

If the revolver has been worked on recently, and the stop has been replaced......if the ball of the stop was left too wide during fitting, this can also cause the problem you are experiencing.

During normal function the stop is pulled down out of the cylinder stop slot by the trigger hook as the trigger (or hammer in SA) is pulled and before the rotation begins....or before the hand touches the next available ratchet. The stop should not pop back up (be released from the trigger hook) until the rotation has been initiated and the cylinder has rotated to approx. halfway between the cylinder stop slot of the last fired chamber, and the slot of the next unfired chamber. After release, the ball of the stop then "rides" the cylinder surface under tension from the stop spring, until it comes in contact with the next available cylinder stop slot.....thus the infamous "turn line".
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:55 PM
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(After the internals have been cleaned and you have verified the integrity of the cylinder stop spring) Like dad used to tell me, if at first you dont succeed do what i told you. i took it all apart one last time before i gave up and shipped it off. just because i was curious i stretched the cylinder stop spring a little and reassemble everything. it is cycling perfect now and the cylinder stop does not pop up until it is supposed to. i am fixing to order two or three springs now. i can not tell you how happy i am now that i do not have to part with this old gun even for just a few weeks. thanks for the advice and replies.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:21 PM
fortyshooter fortyshooter is offline
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That's great that you fixed it yourself!
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:09 PM
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Just as a sidenote, that Model 66 that you have inherited, is an iconic Revolver, and the 66 No Dash, along with the 66 -1 were the only model 66s to have pinned barrels and recessed Cylinder Chambers.

They only mad them pinned and recessec for about 10 years, so finding a nice pinned and recessed example now, at a decent price is not easy.

Next to the Model 29 of Dirty Harry fame, the Model 66 was one of the most sought after Revolvers of its time, and still are today.
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