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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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Old 04-22-2017, 01:20 AM
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Default K-38 SINGLE ACTION

In the beginning----the 60's: I was a bullseye shooter, and an accumulator of S&W target guns. What we refer to today as the K-38 Single Action came along. I bought a conversion kit, and made my own. I have no real recollection of the contents of the kit (I assume it was a hammer and trigger.)---only that it was a simple parts swap---and it worked. Time for a question: The current edition of SCSW notes "Internal deletion of parts allows single action only." Given that, why was there a conversion kit?

Now---what's in a name? My only recollection of the nomenclature applied at the time (1960's) is "Short Action Single Action". I haven't noted the use of that term for a long time----but it stuck with me. So, is it a short action---and if so, compared to what? Here are a couple of K-38's from my current collection: A Model 14 #K338057, shipped November 12, 1958. It is fitted with target trigger and hammer. A Model 14-3 #3K62552, shipped November 6, 1972. This is a single action only gun--also fitted with target trigger and hammer. It's perhaps worth noting both these hammers appear the same----from the outside. Both guns are as new---"unfooledaroundwith". With the respective hammers cocked, the distance from the nose of the firing pin to the rear of the sight assembly is .5" on the early example, less than .4" on the later SA only example. The gap from the rear of the respective hammers to the rear of the slot between the frame and the sideplate differs accordingly. So, the answer is yes, the single action is a "short action single action"----which is to say the SA hammer falls a lesser distance (presumably in less time). Given that a short action is better/faster/more "user friendly" in single action use, I wonder why they stopped using the "short action single action" terminology? An entirely reasonable response might be everybody knew it was a shorter action, and there was no need to keep beating a dead horse. It's not like the nits and lice of the K-38 Single Action come up in everyday conversation, but it seems like there are more than a few folks who don't know that----perhaps simply because they don't care one way or the other.

I was thinking it was going to take forever to write down everything I had to say here----but it didn't.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:01 AM
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In a fairly recent posting someone had posted the picture of a true single action only hammer and it had no provision for double action. It wasn't just removed, it wasn't there and no provision to put the parts in it.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:26 AM
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A friend who competes in Bullseye with me picked up a similar vintage Colt Officers Model Match in single action only. In researching what he had it was noted that besides the obvious lack of a double action, the factory Colts had a shorter hammer travel. I also ran across a lot of comments that shooters at the time thought that just removing the double action sear would make for a better single action trigger.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:31 AM
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The S&W 'single action kit' had a Hammer, Trigger, and REBOUND spring.
The Colt factory 'single action kit' only had the Hammer and Trigger.
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:47 PM
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The single action hammer is different. If you look down the front of it, you will see no cocking notch, which you will see on the front of a double action hammer. If you remove the double action sear from a standard DA K-38, you will have an SAO revolver, but it won't have the single action hammer that S&W provided in the factory SAO model.

As for the shorter throw, that's an interesting question. Keep in mind that when the K-38 was introduced in the late 1940s it had the short throw postwar hammer, called the "high speed" hammer. This had a shorter throw than the prewar long throw hammer. So, in essence all K-38 revolvers are "Short Action." However, whether the SAO hammer had a throw that was shorter yet is something I've never explored. I have two confirmed factory SAO K-38 Masterpiece revolvers in my safe. Both are Model 14-3. When I get time, I'll take them out and compare the hammer throw to several DA examples and let you know what I find.
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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I love this guy's website for Colts. He examines two single action Officers Models, one factory and one very custom.

Colt V-spring Adventures: Single-action only officers model match (OMM) vs normal OMM

Colt V-spring Adventures: another SA-only officers model match
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:48 PM
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I went looking for pictures of the S&W hammers and triggers and found this thread: K-38 Single Action Only - Factory.....Have questions, How rare?
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:23 AM
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Default SAO K14

Guys, no more infos? I always asked to me if it is really possible to feel the difference in SA only and my more common SA-DA sixgun.
I like one-handed shooting, slow, accurate and calm. Fullstop.
I love my k14 alot, and I simulate indifference when at the range someone , shooting a SA-only K14, describes his wheelgun proud as a turkey.
I simulate....but I suffer !
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:12 PM
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On of the quick "tells" on whether a factory SAO or a DA modified to SAO ... when you pull the trigger on a factory SAO, the cylinder indexes / rotates as the hammer dips forward, simultaneously. Yes, the hammer dips FORWARD !

Naturally, the valid confirmation is to remove the sideplate to examine the hammer. The SAO hammer is different but not readily obvious, externally.

With an empty cylinder it indexes / rotates freely with no interference. I never tried to see what happens when the gun is loaded (and then pull the trigger with the hammer down, of course) as it seems the firing pin would "kiss" the cartridges when it dips down as the cylinder is rotating.

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Old 07-21-2018, 03:05 PM
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I have a factory SAO model 14, and some "regular" ones. The SAO throw does seem a hair shorter. I can still shoot one of the others a little better, but I'm no Roy Rogers.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:15 PM
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I had a SAO Model 14 K-38 Target Masterpiece that I picked up in a trade. It also had the feature of slightly dipping the hammer while it rotated the cylinder when attempted to fire in double action. It was a very accurate firearm and equipped with target stocks and a trigger shoe. I traded it off a couple years ago to someone with a higher interest in a target shooting .38 special than I.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:57 PM
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I had a SAO Model 14 K-38 Target Masterpiece that I picked up in a trade. It also had the feature of slightly dipping the hammer while it rotated the cylinder when attempted to fire in double action. It was a very accurate firearm and equipped with target stocks and a trigger shoe. I traded it off a couple years ago to someone with a higher interest in a target shooting .38 special than I.
While I had avoided S&Ws manufactured in the 1970s (seemed poorer quality fit and finish), I could not resist these Single Action Only K38 Masterpieces.

I have one 14-1 and 3 x 14-3s. The 14-3s are all 6" barrels (actual measurement 5.875") and 1, 14-1 is a 8+3/8" barrel (measures 8.375") barrel.

Over the years I had found 3 x NOS Single Action Conversion kits in the S&W factory shrink wrap card board backed display "hangars" that I still have. I wouldn't mind parting with a SAO kit if someone really wanted it.

One of my K-38 Masterpiece, early post WWII, "one-liner" MADE IN USA (1 of only 12 "one-liners" known to exist, verified by member-owners) was found with 3Ts, in Single Action Only. I need to send for a S&W Historical letter, hopefully it will disclose if it left the factory in 1946 as a SAO (fingers crossed).
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JP@AK View Post
The single action hammer is different. If you look down the front of it, you will see no cocking notch, which you will see on the front of a double action hammer. If you remove the double action sear from a standard DA K-38, you will have an SAO revolver, but it won't have the single action hammer that S&W provided in the factory SAO model.

As for the shorter throw, that's an interesting question. Keep in mind that when the K-38 was introduced in the late 1940s it had the short throw postwar hammer, called the "high speed" hammer. This had a shorter throw than the prewar long throw hammer. So, in essence all K-38 revolvers are "Short Action." However, whether the SAO hammer had a throw that was shorter yet is something I've never explored. I have two confirmed factory SAO K-38 Masterpiece revolvers in my safe. Both are Model 14-3. When I get time, I'll take them out and compare the hammer throw to several DA examples and let you know what I find.
Jack, did you ever research this any further ? Sal
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:52 AM
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No, Sal. I actually forgot about it until now.

I'm making myself a note to put up above my workbench. I'll try to do it next week. I know I won't have time tomorrow.

Sorry for the forgetfulness. I'm old.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:57 AM
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No, Sal. I actually forgot about it until now.

I'm making myself a note to put up above my workbench. I'll try to do it next week. I know I won't have time tomorrow.

Sorry for the forgetfulness. I'm old.
Jack, I'm there, too ! Perhaps you can help me determine if my One-Liner was a factory SAO ? Thank you. Sal
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:11 PM
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Hello Sal, Jack and other SAO nuts:

I have always had a soft spot for the K-38. That model was my second handgun which I picked up at age 16, long ago and far, far away.

Because of that affinity, when I was recently offered this one from an estate, at a very fair price, I jumped. I have not shot it yet, and may never do so since it seems to be almost unfired and I've got several nice shooter K-38s I enjoy firing.



This one is another of the aforementioned M14-3 SAOs. I wonder why there seems to be a group of them made as 14-3s? There must be a story there somewhere. I have heard that there are eight million stories in The Naked City, so that must be one of them that will be told someday.

The box label showing the SA reference.

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Old 07-22-2018, 08:46 PM
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Arrow Another 14-3 SA (only) end label

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Originally Posted by ordnanceguy View Post
Hello Sal, Jack and other SAO nuts:

I have always had a soft spot for the K-38. That model was my second handgun which I picked up at age 16, long ago and far, far away.

Because of that affinity, when I was recently offered this one from an estate, at a very fair price, I jumped. I have not shot it yet, and may never do so since it seems to be almost unfired and I've got several nice shooter K-38s I enjoy firing.



This one is another of the aforementioned M14-3 SAOs. I wonder why there seems to be a group of them made as 14-3s? There must be a story there somewhere. I have heard that there are eight million stories in The Naked City, so that must be one of them that will be told someday.

The box label showing the SA reference.

Charlie, that's sweet. All of my have been fired but surely all in the high nineties percentage condition. I have only 1 in the original box (see photo) Serial Number: 8K19160 just a mere 606 serial numbers lower than yours. Luck of the draw is that this one, with the original box, has the heaviest drag line on the cylinder of all 4 SAs.

Also, comparing the 2 labels, while my box seems nicer, your label is nicer and seems written in felt tip or fountain pen ? Yours has the S&W Logo center, mine does not.

The 3x 14-3s all have black iron sights, The 14-1, 8+3/8" has white outline rear and red insert front sights.

The 8+3/8" is not only the sole 8+3/8" single action I ever found, it was the only 14-1 single action I ever found.

I'm not suggesting there are not other 14-1 SAs but it seems the major concentration of the SAs seem to fall in the 14-3 revision. When you find out why, let me know.

Nice catch on your NIB SA Masterpiece.

Sal Raimondi
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:10 AM
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This one is another of the aforementioned M14-3 SAOs. I wonder why there seems to be a group of them made as 14-3s?

The box label showing the SA reference.
My two 14-3 SAO revolvers carry serial numbers 3K91919 and 3K92070. Both shipped in 1973 (I'd have to dig out the letters to check for the month, but they were not shipped far apart).

Yours seems to bear a 1975 serial number.

The SA in Special Features matches mine. Here is a pic of one of them:


You will notice that mine are 2T - TT and TH but Magna stocks.

Here is a picture of the gun from that box. Photo doesn't do it justice. It is 98%.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:19 AM
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Charlie and Sal

Notice one other factor. Both of you have Model 14 K-38 Masterpiece SAO revolvers that shipped with target stocks. Mine shipped with Magna stocks.

The boxes for yours have five-hole reinforcement ribs at the corner. My boxes have only four-hole reinforcement corners. The shallower box on mine was clearly intended to house the smaller stocks.

This topic has been discussed before, but I wanted to point out the photographic evidence manifested in this thread.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:49 AM
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Back in the day, Smith apparently had SAO kits for many of their revolvers.

I have a 38/44 target 6 1/2 inch that has a SAO kit as well as a 1955/45 with the SAO kit.
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:53 PM
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Here's what the K-Frame single action kits look like. Whenever I found S&W Parts, especially NIB, usually bought up whatever I could.
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File Type: jpg P7230096.jpg (76.3 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg P7230097.jpg (60.0 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg P7230098.jpg (38.6 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg P7230099.jpg (53.2 KB, 41 views)
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Old 07-23-2018, 05:10 PM
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What would these four sealed kits sell for, shipped Mike
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:22 PM
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I dug out the information I had on a SAO K-38 that I had, it turns out it was a Model 14-3 Serial #14K-2513, which puts it in the early '73 period.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:03 PM
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Model 14-3 Serial #14K-2513, which puts it in the early '73 period.
Actually, the 14K numbers were not used until 1977.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:22 PM
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I dug out the information I had on a SAO K-38 that I had, it turns out it was a Model 14-3 Serial #14K-2513, which puts it in the early '73 period.
My SAO 14-3 #3K62552 shipped November 6, 1972---for whatever that may tell us.

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Old 07-23-2018, 10:27 PM
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What would these four sealed kits sell for, shipped Mike
Hey, Mike. These kits are not super scarce but you rarely see a sealed kit for sale, anywhere, so ... it's anyone's guess what they would sell for. Usually, when they do show up online, those offered are mostly kits that have been opened and re-taped, meaning a buyer really never knows what is inside, e.g. a used SA kit or the double action parts taken out of a K frame, placed back in the package when one of the past owners installed the SA KIT ??

Also, you'll find parts offered separately as a SA Hammer or separate SA trigger but they should be replaced as a matched set to function correctly, along with the correct spring that I've never see advertised, alone. If you know what you're looking at the SA hammer is easy enough to identify from the DA target hammer but rarely is the correct trigger offered separately.

There are a few SA Hammers and a SA trigger offered currently on one of the online auction companies. The hammers seem to be OK but who knows for sure but trigger offered as a SA trigger is NOT at SA trigger, so, you'd be SOL (Surely Out of Luck) if you want to match up a SA set from separately sold components unless they are directly from S&W, but unfortunately the S&W SA kit has been an obsolete part / kit for at least the past 25 years, likely longer as the kit pre-dates Bar Codes, UPC and SKU.

The sealed "kit" is the only choice to be assured you have the correct, matched, components.

Last time I saw one sell on one of the gun auction website, it was a kit that had been opened up and re-taped shut, sold for $169+shipping. And about a year ago, there was one on e-bay even more sloppily taped back together, sold for $200.

See: Discontinued S&W K Frame Single Action Trigger ... for sale

i haven't seen a sealed Single Action kit offered for sale in a very long time.

Another forum member wrote there are also SA Target kits for certain N frames. I've never seen a SA Target kit for a N frame.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by elpac3 View Post
Back in the day, Smith apparently had SAO kits for many of their revolvers.

I have a 38/44 target 6 1/2 inch that has a SAO kit as well as a 1955/45 with the SAO kit.
I've never seen a Single Action kit for anything other than the K-frame. Do you have pictures of the packages or labels of N frame Kit(s) you installed ?
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  #28  
Old 07-24-2018, 03:44 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is online now
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As all ways , a fantastic tutorial. Now, how much for the 4 sealed SA kits?
I can redeem some Pop bottles down at the A&P. Best, Mike
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Old 07-24-2018, 05:47 PM
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As all ways , a fantastic tutorial. Now, how much for the 4 sealed SA kits?
I can redeem some Pop bottles down at the A&P. Best, Mike
Mike, I won't sell the 4 sealed kits, however, If YOU "really" need ONE kit, email me. Sal
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:42 PM
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I've got a 14-2 that shipped from the factory on 9-3-64 as a SAO, verified by a letter. It's one of the best shooters I have.
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