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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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Old 05-01-2017, 03:01 PM
1-1917 1-1917 is offline
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Default Gun show lesson 15-4

I got a 15-4 at the local gun show. Nothing collectable, I was just looking for a shooter that I thought my wife would enjoy. Normal cursory examination looked pretty good. I did NOT bring a dental mirror or bore light. Thumbnail inspection I saw a moderately dirty bore, no rust..

Lesson learned! Bring a bore light. If you forget one, buy one there. A mirror might not be a bad idea either. I did have my reading glasses.

When I got home and cleaned the bore better I noticed a slight dark spot (with bore light looking from the muzzle). Brushed some more and it didn't go away. Took the cylinder out to get a better look and a brass blob. What heck is that? Got a dental pick and was able to remove some brass shavings. Under the little scab of brass is a serious gouge in the barrel. No wonder the guy was in such a hurry to get rid of it. I wish I could find him again just to ask him how in the world he managed to do so much damage?

I guess at this point I'll just try getting the barrel replaced. Found a good barrel from another pinned model 15 as a replacement. At least the 15 is one of the easiest to find a barrel for. After replacing a barrel, I'll have more in this than I'll get out of it unless my wife just happens to love shooting it..

I like to think this wasn't an intentional swindle but I'm having a hard time believing that. Last few deals I've gotten on S&Ws have been pretty good so I guess it was about time for a stinker.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:18 PM
eddiewhiteshoes eddiewhiteshoes is offline
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That's a bummer indeed. I've never seen damage like that before. Hope somebody chimes in with an explanation.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:30 PM
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That's a bummer indeed. I've never seen damage like that before. Hope somebody chimes in with an explanation.
I spent half an hour trying to figure out how someone did that. Almost looks like they tried to use something hard to hammer out a stuck bullet from the rear. This is just a little inside the forcing cone.
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Old 05-01-2017, 03:48 PM
eddiewhiteshoes eddiewhiteshoes is offline
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I agree. Probably a flat head round punch at the wrong angle.
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:02 PM
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I agree. Probably a flat head round punch at the wrong angle.
But why from the rear? Bubba at his best I guess. Still not sure what it's going to cost me fix some idiots mistake. Make that TWO idiots mistakes!
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:15 PM
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I bought a 629 from the classifieds here that had similar undisclosed damage. I can not tell if this is a possibility from looking at your pictures but My gunsmith thought the gouges were made by a knock out rod deflecting off the nose of a stuck bullet.

Unless you have gunsmithing skills and a lathe replacing a barrel runs $100 to $150 plus the expense of the new barrel bring it up near the value of an NRA good condition Model 15. If you could find a 2" barrel you'd end up with a higher value 15.

The lesson here is to always be suspicious of guns that are being sold with dirty barrels. Unethical sellers dirty barrels to hide damage. Be especially suspicious when it is the only gun in the store with a dirty barrel.

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Old 05-01-2017, 04:20 PM
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I like K22fan's idea about a shorter 2" barrel.
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Old 05-01-2017, 04:56 PM
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I like K22fan's idea about a shorter 2" barrel.
Got a nice 2" M&P, don't want one with adjustable sights.

If found a Smith here to replace it in the $100 range I'd live with it. Better to spend $150 at this point than throw away the $400 I paid for it.. )-:} Loose Loose deal.
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:20 PM
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Were it mine I would get it correctly repaired. The mistake is already behind you. I have a S&W 1917 that I paid too much for then later had to have rebarreled. Since I have literally fired five gallon buckets of home cast bullets though it my cost per shot with it is lower than most of my guns.

15s have very pleasant recoil and are easy to shoot accurately. I'll bet your wife likes it.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:28 AM
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"Shame on me" I bought a GP100 from an ad on Armslist. Beautiful looking gun. Bore was dirty though. Once I got it home and cleaned it found pitting in it. It seemed to function OK at the range. I did not keep it that long. Bob
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:45 AM
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If it's just a shooter, why not shoot it first and see how it groups? If it is reasonably accurate.....no worries, it's just a shooter anyway. As always, YMMV
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:09 AM
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If it's just a shooter, why not shoot it first and see how it groups? If it is reasonably accurate.....no worries, it's just a shooter anyway. As always, YMMV
I have considered just trying to smooth it out a bit. It won't have anything but home cast wadcutters going down it anyway. Still prefer to just fix it right though. I did find a barrel that looks pretty darn good for $40.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:56 AM
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If it's just a shooter, why not shoot it first and see how it groups? If it is reasonably accurate.....no worries, it's just a shooter anyway. As always, YMMV
Yea, I'd shoot it. If accuracy wasn't affected and it didn't spit shavings on you. I'd leave it as is.
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:56 PM
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The gouges will recollect the same type of fouling they were filled with when he bought it. That will be worse with his home cast wadcutters than it was with the jacketed bullets that were fired though it by the last owner. My beautiful home cast bullets deserve a better barrel. Besides, I have more revolvers with good barrels than I have time for so I would not use it as is. That would leave me the options of selling it deceitfully as was done to 1-1917 or having it rebarreled. I'm not suggesting the rest of you should behave the same but I'd give it a fresh barrel then put the buying mistake behind me.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:47 PM
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I did find a small file that was able to reach and smooth the burr down a bit. I wouldn't be afraid to shoot it at this point but there IS a new barrel in the mail..

When I ran a cast bullet down the bore it was coming out pretty scratched up initially, after the filing and polishing, it comes out fine but in that process I noticed another issue. There is a very slight bulge, just enough to to let the bullet slip a bit easier in the middle of the barrel. I can't detect it with a straight edge on the outside of the barrel but there a wider place there. There are also a few other minor dings in the bore. I'm pretty sure someone stuck a bullet, probably two and used something like a bolt to hammer them out.

I will just chalk it up as a learning experience (hopefully for more than just me), get it fixed properly and enjoy it as a shooter.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:56 AM
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Sounds like there might have been a squib or primer-only round fired, resulting in a stuck bullet, then another round fired resulting in a bulged or ringed barrel, then the subsequent damage trying to remove the stuck bullet(s).

$40 + labor to install the new barrel - I've 'ad worse. Fix, shoot, enjoy, forget the $$. The government's printing more of it every day anyway.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:53 PM
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Yeah, maybe have that barrel shortened.
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Old 05-06-2017, 06:14 PM
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Yeah, maybe have that barrel shortened.
Nope, this barrel will be mounted on a plaque and used as a constant reminder to not get over enthused at a gun show.

I have a new barrel on the way and a decent deal with a good gunsmith ready to get it fixed right as soon as the barrel arrives..
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:37 PM
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I have seem bulged barrels that was as accurate as a barrel without a bulged.
I was issued an old worn loose M1911 that the bore looked like the inside of a chimney but was a nail driver. I never let on in spite of the other guys laughing and making remarks. Then at the range qualifications Jimmy was Top Gun. I never field stripped this old horse as I didn't want to mess up what ever made it so accurate.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:59 PM
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I saw a 6 in. 29-2 a dealer had at a good price and he told me it had a bad place (dark) in the barrel. I've seen worse barrels that shot ok so I bought it. It was as accurate and four other 29-2s I had so I figured I got a good deal. A few months later I worked on it with JB paste and it shined and stayed that way. I would never change a barrel until I found out it wouldn't shoot. Larry
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:07 AM
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Good info to think about. Thanks.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:20 AM
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I have seem bulged barrels that was as accurate as a barrel without a bulged.
I was issued an old worn loose M1911 that the bore looked like the inside of a chimney but was a nail driver. I never let on in spite of the other guys laughing and making remarks. Then at the range qualifications Jimmy was Top Gun. I never field stripped this old horse as I didn't want to mess up what ever made it so accurate.
I agree with Jimmy-and if the damage is just inside the forcing cone, shortening the barrel ain't gonna help! clean is and shoot it before you spend any money on it is my suggestion.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:40 AM
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I agree with Jimmy-and if the damage is just inside the forcing cone, shortening the barrel ain't gonna help! clean is and shoot it before you spend any money on it is my suggestion.
LOL, Yep, I'd have to shorten this one a LOT. I smoothed the gouges down a lot but haven't tried it to see how it behaves yet. I have a bunch of wadcutter reloads I can try in it just to see what happens after my polishing job. It has to be better than it was but it's still far from perfect.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:47 AM
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I spent half an hour trying to figure out how someone did that. Almost looks like they tried to use something hard to hammer out a stuck bullet from the rear. This is just a little inside the forcing cone.
Yeah, a squib removal job. My dad the engineer did that to an old Springfield 30-06 rifle rather than take it to a gunsmith who would've charged $25 to fix it back then. Marred the rifling. It's a shame, but may not have effected the way it shot.

The OP shouldn't feel too bad. If it's a good shooter, who cares. Or replace the barrel if you do care. You got it covered either way. Whatever you do, DON'T let it ruin your fun.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:02 AM
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Yep I learned the hard way like you to inspect everything about a used gun. Burnt once was enough for me.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:51 AM
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I have experience shooting three defective bores. My old 1911 has a good bit if pitting from a history of corrosive primers, I think. It shoots as accurately as the operator. I had a .30-06 rebore (by LaBounty) to .338-06. He let the bit chatter in the vicinity of the gas vent. There was no land on the bottom for a few inches. The rifle shot just fine, but you know how perfectionists are. After a few years, it got to bugging me and it went on the cheap. SIL has an old 700 .25-06 that has a visible bulge about eight inches from the muzzle. Said he bought it in a pawn shop that way for nearly nothing. The darn thing still shoots sub inch. Go figure??

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Old 05-08-2017, 06:57 PM
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1-1917, you mean you made a gun deal without even finding out the sellers ID or seeing some kind of identification? I was under the impression every state required this, now?
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:50 PM
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1-1917, you mean you made a gun deal without even finding out the sellers ID or seeing some kind of identification? I was under the impression every state required this, now?
Steve
The seller looked like a regular, he had a decent spread of parts set up at the show. He was just real quick to drop his price on this one. Problem for me is that it would cost more in gas to make the 5hr trip to try to find him at the next show than it's worth. I'm hoping he shows up at our local show, I'll know him if I see him. Most of those guys do a circuit. No, I do not have ID or documentation on him, not required. When I get the barrel replaced I'd like to give it to him at the next show as a present. I'm in a more cheerful mood now than I was. I think my total cost for this fix is going to be under $100. He can do what ever he wants at that point (if I ever see him again). More I think about it (after a "cooling off" period), he probably took it in trade and didn't notice the damage either. It's probably the guy that traded it in the first place that's the real scoundrel.

For a face to face transaction in Texas about the only requirement is the buyer be a Texas resident (and legal for them to own a gun). That does not require any paper or proof, just asking the question is good enough. If the buyer lies about their residence status and gets caught that is a misdemeanor. This is still a pretty free and gun friendly state.
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:43 AM
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Short story, I bought a set of Magpul sights at a local show and they were fake so, I called people who ran the shows and they gave me his phone number. No gas on me.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:01 AM
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..

I like to think this wasn't an intentional swindle but I'm having a hard time believing that. Last few deals I've gotten on S&Ws have been pretty good so I guess it was about time for a stinker.
While that does suck I just want to say that most people don't get that detailed when buying, or selling, a gun. I wouldn't even have thought about using dental picks and mirrors. I look down the barrel and if it looks good I'll buy it. If something is not working for me I'll sell it.

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Old 05-09-2017, 10:09 AM
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I looked at a nickel 19-2 with a little wear on the back of the grip. Good price and the gun was pretty clean, except the bore. Incredibly dirty. Could not get a decent look. So I left it. Maybe a good thing.
Not saying it was intentionally fouled but....
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:24 AM
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I'd shoot it and see how it performs before doing anything else.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:40 PM
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I'd shoot it and see how it performs before doing anything else.
Ditto that!
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:15 PM
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This gun is cursed. The barrel I purchased has been lost in the mail. Go figure...

I did take it out and shot about 50 wad cutters through it and it looks like I got all the high spots knocked down. I didn't have any lead shaving and shooting off hand it wasn't any less accurate than anything I shot yesterday. No lead buildup that I could detect. I'll try a 100 through it next week. Maybe I will just leave it and shoot it as is. Still makes me mad but I'm beginning to resign myself to it. And now to have a new barrel lost in the mail...
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:44 PM
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Bubba strikes again,

I saw a gun with similar damage many years ago. Squib load and someone had tried to drill a hole in the bullet in order to remove it.

Electric drill bit slipped and boogered up the barrel.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:51 PM
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Live and learn. A few years ago I found a 686-3 with a six inch barrel at a pawn shop. I checked it and everything including carry up seemed good. It was fairly tight. The bore was dirty and I didn't have a bore light with me but I thought it would clean up O.K.. I bought it for what was a good price at the time. I took it home and started cleaning it up. I noticed red material in the trigger opening. I took the side plate off and it was caked on the inside with what I believed was dried blood. I put on my gloves and and completely took it apart and thoroughly cleaned with rubbing alcohol and oiled it good. Then I started on the bore, I worked and worked and couldn't get a ring (bulge) that I now noticed on the inside of the barrel. I said this is enough and took the gun back to the pawnshop and demanded my money back. Oh he had to give me some ****, saying the blood could have been from an animal and a lewis lead remover might have gotten the ring (bulge) out. I frankly think that this revolver may have been used in a suicide. I got my money back and should have charged him for cleaning the gun up. Morale of the story is to always be careful when buying from someone you don't know!
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:26 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
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When everyone was using rifles or semi-auto shotguns for deer hunting, my Dad would only use his old double 12 gauge, made back in 1915. The barrel was pitted, rusty and looked like a sewer pipe inside. He bought it in 1939, rusted just like that. He didn't know it when he bought it.

He got his deer every year. They always dropped in their tracks. Never required a second shot.

That gun will never be rebarreled. I have it now and it's destined for his Great Grandson some day. Hope he enjoys it like I do - rust and all.

Last edited by GypsmJim; 05-12-2017 at 08:28 PM.
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