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Old 05-11-2017, 02:22 PM
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Default Did this K-Frame exist?

I've been browsing around for another ICORE gun and I've been wondering - was there ever a K-frame with a 6" barrel and adjustable sights? I believe the 15 had both, but any others? It seems like those features were usually given to the L's more than the K's.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:23 PM
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Model 19s were available with 6'' barrels......... not sure about 66s?????................ think they were offered but can't recall seeing one....... also

17s/617s ....6" 22lr........ model 16s were .32 w/ 6 inch barrels..... all with adjustable sights

Oh ya the model 68......6 inch satinless .38. Also the pre-model versions of the Model 14,16 and 17,19 guns...K-22,K-32 and K-38 "Masterpieces" ....... what did they name the pre-19?????.



By the way IIRC 15s were....... all/mostly/suppose to be ..... 4" ; the 14s were the 6" guns...but LOL some were 4inch!

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:25 PM
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14, 17, 19 and Stainless counterparts.

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:32 PM
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Awesome info, thank you!
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
...not sure about 66s?????................ think they were offered but can't recall seeing one.......
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Old 05-11-2017, 03:07 PM
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Yes, all the way since .32-20 and .38 Military & Police Targets (early ones were 6.5") from the early 1900s. Don't know about ICORE specs but there were full underlug .38 Special model 14-5 through 7s that look just like slightly shrunken 586s.
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:25 PM
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14's are a fine example! My -3. Bob
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post

Oh ya the model 68......6 inch satinless .38. Also the pre-model versions of the Model 14,16 and 17,19 guns...K-22,K-32 and K-38 "Masterpieces" ....... what did they name the pre-19?????.
The Combat Magnum

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Old 05-11-2017, 04:43 PM
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Whats the old saying? So many you almost can't throw a dead cat without hitting one.

I'm not sure about some of the inclusive statements above. I'm thinking there were some short 14's, some long 15's along the way. S&W had a nasty habit of discontinuing a model, then finding a demand (in the form of firm orders) and just building something and using an existing model # for that run. Beat the bushes and out falls something that shouldn't be but is. But take heart, it doesn't add (or subtract) from the value. OK, and why did we exclude the M48 and M53s?
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:49 PM
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Right, the problem is when you're trying to search for something on, say, Gunbroker, where frame sizes aren't listed. I guess now I have a pile on model numbers to try, lol.
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Old 05-11-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Yes, all the way since .32-20 and .38 Military & Police Targets (early ones were 6.5") from the early 1900s. Don't know about ICORE specs but there were full underlug .38 Special model 14-5 through 7s that look just like slightly shrunken 586s.
Full underlug?! Okay, I have to try to find one of those...
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Old 05-11-2017, 05:27 PM
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Model 14-5 (square butt) :


Model 14-7 on the right with round butt frame, the 4" Model 15-6 on the left was also available in 6" as well.
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Old 05-11-2017, 05:42 PM
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Don't know what ICORE is but YES...
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Old 05-11-2017, 05:53 PM
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International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts - think USPSA, but all wheelguns. And hooligans, lol.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:21 AM
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I shoot icore and for the distances and accuracy requirements I do not see a 6" any advantage over a 4". ( I do have both a 4" pre 15 and a 6" 14-3) and there is little difference In accuracy
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rburg View Post
Whats the old saying? So many you almost can't throw a dead cat without hitting one.

I'm not sure about some of the inclusive statements above. I'm thinking there were some short 14's, some long 15's along the way. S&W had a nasty habit of discontinuing a model, then finding a demand (in the form of firm orders) and just building something and using an existing model # for that run. Beat the bushes and out falls something that shouldn't be but is. But take heart, it doesn't add (or subtract) from the value. OK, and why did we exclude the M48 and M53s?
LOL ....... if I'd tried to list all the exceptions to the rules (models) I've learned about here ...I might still be typing!!!!!
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:44 AM
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Don't forget that oddball Mod 68 from CHP. A 6" Mod 66 with a 38 Spl cylinder.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Model 14-5 (square butt) :


Model 14-7 on the right with round butt frame, the 4" Model 15-6 on the left was also available in 6" as well.
I have never seen a m-14 with a full underlug-very cool-thanks for posting.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:50 AM
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Keep in mind that a model 66 is a stainless model 19-there are beau coup 6 inchers.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingflapjack View Post
I have never seen a m-14 with a full underlug-very cool-thanks for posting.
I forgot that they made a full underlug version of the venerable Mod 14.

Off topic a bit, but rare bird of the "Dayton Mod. 14/15" would be nice to see as a re-boot from S&W....as long as they don't butcher it like the classic line M15 a few years back that looked like a .38 Spl Mod 19?? But I do dig the Dayton gun, that was pretty slick!
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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....... what did they name the pre-19?????.
"Combat Masterpiece"
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:42 AM
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Don't know if ICORE allows rifle bi-pods but you may wish you had one for this 8-3/8" Model 14-3!

From this thread I see 14-3 with full underlug, and then mine with the long pipe.....same engineering change, but different, so go figure..........probably the thing would have weighed in the carbine rifle range if equipped with full lug
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:45 AM
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The .357 Combat Magnum became the Model 19, but never lost its original name. The .38 Combat Masterpiece became the Model 15.

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Old 05-14-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
....... what did they name the pre-19?????.
"Combat Masterpiece"
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No, the pre M15 is the Combat Masterpiece. The pre M19 is the Combat Magnum.
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
....... what did they name the pre-19?????.
"Combat Masterpiece"
jcelect

No, the pre M15 is the Combat Masterpiece. The pre M19 is the Combat Magnum.
Now I don't feel so bad about forgetting what the pre-19 was named!!

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Old 05-14-2017, 03:00 PM
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It seems like Smith builds more exceptions than they do rules, lol.

That full lug 14 is awesome looking. You said that's a round butt? When was it built?
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:19 PM
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The names can be confusing,
Model 15, The K-38 Combat Masterpiece
Model 27, The .357 Magnum
Model 28, The Highway Patrolman
Model 19, The .357 Combat Magnum
Model 586, The .357 Distinguished Combat Magnum

BTW the full underlug Model 14's were available in 4", 6" and 8 3/8" lengths .

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Old 05-14-2017, 10:19 PM
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While I do not like the way S&W transferred blued K frame .38 Special model numbers there was some logic involved. Traditionally Model 15s had skinny barrels and Model 14s had what were for the time heavy barrels. S&W discontinued the traditional skinny Combat Masterpiece barrels, kept the heavy barrels and added even heavier full lug barrels. Since what had been Model 14s became the lighter of the two offerings their number changed to 15 and 14 went on the full lug .38s so it would remain the number for the heaviest offering.

Locally the most competitive 6" revolver for firing .38s in matches that only allow loading 6 cartridges is a 6 shot full lug Model 686 L frame with its cylinder milled to accept full moon clips. I do not think the full lug Model 14 would have any advantage over a 686.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:43 AM
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Folks, let's not forget that model names were not discarded when numbers were assigned. The model 10 is still the .38 Military & Police,
the M19 is still the .357 Combat Magnum, the Model 58 is the .41 Military & Police, and so forth.

Larry

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Old 05-15-2017, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
The names can be confusing,
Model 15, The K-38 Combat Masterpiece
Model 27, The .357 Magnum
Model 28, The Highway Patrolman
Model 19, The .357 Combat Magnum
Model 586, The .357 Distinguished Combat Magnum

BTW the full underlug Model 14's were available in 4", 6" and 8 3/8" lengths .
Add model 14 as the k-38 Target Masterpiece
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:26 PM
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As long as we are discussing model numbers and names, take a look at this S&W sheet from 59/60.

Bill

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Old 05-16-2017, 10:13 PM
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So yup, definitely exists. And now I have a 6" 14-3!



Rough finish but great action and lockup, and I got a good price on it. I'll give it my usual action tune and try it out at this month's match.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:42 PM
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I use a Model 14-3 for ICORE.

After shoot many other 6 inch guns, the 14 has the best action/trigger of the group. A competent gunsmith can tune a 686 or 19 or 66 and make it sing.

But a Model 14 get you there out of the box.

The guys in my ICORE league shoot a variety of guns, but the few of us who shoot Classic (unmodified 6 shot, no moon clips, speed loaders only), shoot either a 14 or a 19. But the guy shooting the 19 like mine enough to by a 14.

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Old 05-17-2017, 11:40 AM
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I can understand why. I haven't shot this one yet, but it points incredibly naturally and has probably the best factory sights of any I've looked at.

Are Hogue Big Butts allowed in Classic? Or are they too far from stock?
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:47 AM
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Great post Doc!
After looking it over, I see some old friends and some strangers.
The two I don't think I have never even seen are the 33 and the 35.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matteekay View Post
Are Hogue Big Butts allowed in Classic? Or are they too far from stock?

Hogue is popular and permitted.

I prefer the Pachmayr Presentation Grip. Fits me perfectly.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:43 AM
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That's actually my #2 behind Hogues. I just avoid finger grooves because they never fit me quite right.
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