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Old 08-08-2017, 08:10 PM
TaylorRatliff TaylorRatliff is offline
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Default Need information about model 19-4 revolver

Hello everyone! I would like to learn as much as possible about the model 19-4 revolvers because there is one for sale locally and I wouldn't mind getting it if it seems like a good buy to you guys. I only have three pictures of so please bare with me as I try to describe it as the seller told me. I was told that this is a smith and wesson model 19-4 that was probably a police trade in from back in the day. It is a 4" barrel, has a smooth trigger with no serrations, a pretty wide checkered pad on the hammer, rubber grips, the condition of the finish looks very nice except for a small holster wear section at the very front of the barrel, the timing and action in general are butter smooth and feel like it has been lightened a little. The seller is firm at $600. I would love to hear any and all input and information about this revolver because at the end of the day, I am on the quest to learn as much as possible about older smith and wesson revolvers. Thanks guys!
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:44 PM
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OK, I am no expert on 19's. Have never had 1. Do have a 66-2. The gun in question based on the pictures looks to nice to be a LEO gun. Only my opinion. At $600 it is at the top of what I would pay. You could still offer $550, what do you have to loose? Mention, that you need to buy some correct stocks for it. If it is something you really want, go for it! Let us know how you make out. Bob
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:48 PM
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That is a little higher than I would like to pay given that it is wearing Goodyears. If it came with the original stocks as well I might be more inclined to pay that much. I paid right about that for a very nice 19-2 all original about a year ago. I would offer $550 OTD and see what happens.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:32 AM
TaylorRatliff TaylorRatliff is offline
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I mentioned to him that his price reflects an example with a box and correct grips, but he is certain that he will get what he is asking for it, if not more. Since it doesn't have the box or grips and he won't take a penny less for it, I am going to let it sit. It is a nice gun, but I would rather pay closer to what you guys are quoting because I feel that the $500-$550 OTD price range is closer to the current market value is for it as it sits. Who knows, maybe I will just save my cash and put it towards a model 27 instead. Thanks for all of the replys!
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:20 PM
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The sad part in this is that he probably Will get the $600 from some one who absolutely has to have it.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:35 PM
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I think you are making the right decision even though he probably will end up getting the 600. You can find a nicer one with better grips and maybe even the box in that price range. My reason for the post is to warn you about the last part of your reply the 27. I have been on the lookout for a 27 for awhile now and unfortunately you are going to have to look at spending more like the $750 to $1000 range for a nice 27. If your not picky you might find something in the lower ballpark but they are selling in a different category than the 19 right now. Good luck and let us know when you find something acceptable to you.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:40 PM
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Taylor,

My experience with the Model 19 revolvers began in the last half of the '60's. I hold the Model 19 in very high regard. My life depended on one almost daily for a very long time. The pictures indicate that this one you are considering is in pretty darn fine looking condition. If the mechanical condition is as good and I wanted a nice copy of a 19, I'd go back to that shop with five one hundred dollar bills and two fifty dollar bills.

I would ask the dealer to remove the Pachmayer grips so I could see the frame underneath to make sure no moisture related damage has occurred underneath. I put a set of the exact same grips on my duty Model 19 very early in the '70's and they went to work with me in all kinds of weather over the years. I normally removed the grips every time I gave the revolver a serious cleaning (more than the daily wipe down with an oily rag) and never had a problem underneath the grips. My compatriots who carried their revolvers with the issued wood grips really banged them up on door facings and car door posts and underneath seat belt buckles. The Pachs took that abuse in stride and still looked about the same as new! I've still got that first set of Pachs since they were purhased with my own money! A period correct set of OEM targets can be found to replace them if you wish.

After a careful inspection of the revolver, including dry firing it (after asking the dealer's permission of course!) and checking for fit, function, and mechanical condtion and appearance, I'd lay down those five big bills and see what happens. The dealer knows what he's got! If he doesn't budge, after a bit, I'd lay down one of the fifties and let it lay for a while. Mention again the Pachs, plus (I assume no box or tools or papers). If that doesn't get accepted, and if you really would like to have a nice copy of a Model 19 that you have been able to closely examine in your own hands before purchase, I'd lay down the other fifty and tell him that $600.00 "out the door" is what you will give.

From what I can see, the gun pictured has not been abused in any way, and it does not show much carry wear at all. If it was a police trade in, it must have been assigned to a supervisor who drove a desk! You should be able to tell whether or not it has been fired much during your inspection. There are probably some nicer 19's on the market, but you'll not find them often, especially where you can physically inspect them before adding the expense of shipment and transfer to the equasion. That can easily add from $50 to $100 to your cost.

It's your money, of course. But prices these days are what they are, and what they are is a lot more than any of us older guys are used to paying. How bad do you want one? Like I said, based on what I see here, this one is a really pretty nice looking copy. I bet it will clean up nicely, and I bet it will be a great shooter! Plus it's not so nice that you will be hesitant to shoot and use it. I just say you ought to think long and hard before you let that one slip away, even if you have to pay the dealer's full asking price. If he won't take your $550, then start laying down ten dollar bills on the pile. And don't do that quickly. As long as that cash lays in front of him, I'll bet at some point, he may accept. I'd have a couple of fives in my pocket and I'd probably add one of those if you get to the point where you have $570 on the counter. That's just the way I do things, but if I wanted the gun, I probably would not leave the store without it!! You understand, I'm very prejudiced about Model 19's and this advice is just my personal opinon given to you for what it might be worth! Good luck with your decision! And we'd like to know what you decide!
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:41 PM
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Thanks kthom and daddio202 for the replies. I have though it over a bit and just doing a preliminary look over the gun, it looks hardly used. I might go back in a couple of days with cash in the pocket and see if he will do 600 OTD. It seems nice and it may do me until I can cough up more dough for a nice model 27 since they are going for more than this 19. I'm still on the fence about this entire situation since my post college budget isn't that big (hence why I tried talking him down to make me feel like I was getting a deal), but these aren't really getting any cheaper. If any of you guys are in the southern area if middle Tennessee and want to see this gun, it is at a gun shop called Templar Shooting Sports in Tullahoma, TN.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:42 PM
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Model 19's are great revolvers no doubt, the only revolver I own is a 19-4. The 19-4 you are looking at is priced way to high for any area of the U.S., and even more so being a LEO turn-in. For example I purchased my Nickel 19-4 safe queen with all the target options for $600 just 1 1/2 years ago. My advice would be to keep looking. There is always a chance you can luck into a much better deal on Gunbroker or right here on this forum.

I'm not usually one to quibble over $50-75 but even $600 for a pretty nice condition 19 should at least buy you a 19 with some nice original wood S&W target stocks. I'd use that as leverage right there to haggle for a lower price on the gun you have pictured.

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Old 08-09-2017, 03:52 PM
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Shoo2tr, thats why I am considering just waiting and seeing what the seller winds up doing after a couple of days ir weeks. I am seeing two kinds of comments about this gun. People feel that the price is either way too high or actually a decent price. I feel that everyone's over optimistic prices on gunbroker (with no bids might I add) is just making the seller believe that he has a gem that is a notch over the rest so he might wind up holding on to it until someone with the right amount of cash comes by.
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:15 PM
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It's been awhile (years not months) since I saw a nice P&Red 19 or 66 for sale in a LGS around the "Burgh"!!

Just saying ....... YMMV
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:27 PM
TaylorRatliff TaylorRatliff is offline
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Excuse my ignorance, but what does YMMV stand for?
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRatliff View Post
Excuse my ignorance, but what does YMMV stand for?
"Your mileage may vary"....... in this case maybe you are seeing more 19/66s for sale in your market.... than I have in mine!!!!
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:23 PM
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It seems like most of the firearms market is flat right now. Lots of revolvers that last year would have sold for the asking price are sitting. Good time to be a buyer.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:44 PM
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This is the first 19 that I have seen in my area, but it just seems like revolvers aren't the most popular in my local area.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:33 AM
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The 19-4 is the last model to have both a pinned barrel and recessed cylinders. From what I can see, it will probably rate as "excellent" condition. In the SCSW4 Exc. = $600, and LNIB = $700, VTG = $500. If you really want one, this may be a good one at $550 to $600.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRatliff View Post
This is the first 19 that I have seen in my area, but it just seems like revolvers aren't the most popular in my local area.
For all the k-frames made over 100years...... very few seem to be for sale.... folks who have them seem to be holding on to them........maybe they are more popular than you think????
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:23 AM
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I paid $237 for my 4" 19-4...but that was in 1981. Still have it, but the target stocks were replaced with Pachmayrs within about a month after I bought it. I still don't understand why people will pay extra for those gawdawful hunks of ugly wood. Every time I trade for a S&W revolver that shoots well (and is therefore a keeper) I sell the stocks and put on Hogue or Pachmayr grips.

I have yet to handle a set of S&W factory stocks I think are even remotely comfortable, with the exception of the ones from other makers they have just slapped their logo on.
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:52 AM
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How many have you seen before at a cheaper price in that condition? And how many do you expect to see in the future for a cheaper price?

I had that same debate with myself when I went to look at a 4" Model 28-2 that was fairly holster worn but good and solid. The guy wanted $550.00 and wasn't budging. I thought about walking... Thank goodness I didn't.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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Taylor,
Ask yourself, "Do I really want this gun or one like it?" If you really would like to own it (and I can't imagine why you would not like to own it?), then the question becomes this, "If I don't buy this one and am willing to wait for another, especially one in this kind of very good to excellent condition, will I regret not getting this one while I have the opportunity if I don't find another any time soon?"

If I had to bet, I'd bet you won't likely find another like this one anytime soon, especially that you can personally inspect before the purchase. As you say yourself, they ain't makin' any more of these. Any any that you see these days in what appears to be excellent condition are generally priced that much or more! I would definitely start with the dealer with five hundred dollar bills and see if you can move him at all. But if you just flat can't move him, don't expect the gun to last very long in his display case. If you can live with someone else buying it for his price, no problem. But if you can manage the cost at this point and want it, I say get it. These kinds of opportunities just don't come along very often these days. And good model 27's in dealer stores are even more scarce in my experience. It's up to you, man. I wish you good luck whatever your decision. Every last one of us has regrets about such things as this, and most of us understand about spending that much money for something that is not a necessity. My thinking is that the gun is going to hold it's value pretty well. You'll survive either way!
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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Thanks for the encouraging words everyone. After thinking long and hard, I am planning on going by after work and seeing if it is still there. If it is there I will buy it and see if he can atleast knock off 20 or 30 bucks to help with local sales tax (9.75% in Coffee County, Tennessee). Who knows, it might be gone by now, but I will try to get if it today if it is still available.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:24 PM
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That gun didn't come with a smooth trigger, or at least I don't think it did. If someone has monkeyed with the trigger surface, or replaced it with a later smooth trigger, you need to be sure that the action works as it should and that there are no push off issues.
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:28 PM
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I paid $550.00 for the last one I bought, and I sure haven't seen any cheaper lately.

I'd try to talk the seller down of course, but if I was selling it, I'd stand firm.
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRatliff View Post
This is the first 19 that I have seen in my area, but it just seems like revolvers aren't the most popular in my local area.
I don't think that is the case. People who have better than average condition Model 19 revolvers are keeping them. Remember the model 19's are one of the finest all around revolvers ever built, and they (Smith and Wesson) is not making anymore of them.
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:55 PM
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Well it was already sold so I guess the silver lining to this is that I won't be $600 ($670~ after tax and background check) poorer. Thanks everyone for all of the comments and help with this model of revolver.

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Old 08-14-2017, 07:09 PM
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PM Sent mate!

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Old 08-16-2017, 12:47 PM
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PM has just been Sent
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:12 PM
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These quest questions always come up.

Posters advise that the gun in question can be had
for less.

So, my advice is always look for a nicer model at a
cheaper price than the gun in the store sales case
and you'll always have that money in your pocket.

And, as in this case, someone else will have that
wonderful gun.

BUT SERIOUSLY, folks, I think sometimes used
guns and their prices must be weighed against
what a brand new manufactured one (now with
the internal lock) costs.
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:07 PM
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It's my understanding the 19 dash 4 is the last model that has the pinned barrel & recessed cylinder. It's also the 1st model of the famous 19 series K frames that had the strengthened top strap above the cylinder.

Previous 19's (no dash, 1, 2 & 3) were known to develop weakening at the front of that top strap if they were fed a steady diet of 357 magnum rounds.

The recommendation was to plink or practice with 38 special, and use the more powerful 357's for carry or self defense.

I never agreed with that because I've always felt you should practice with what you carry, especially in a self defense or every day carry situation.

So, my 19-3 is always at the ready with 38 sp ammo.

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Old 08-17-2017, 09:28 AM
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Default Model 19 values

I bought one, in truly exc. cond. 2 weeks ago. Original box with all the goodies too. $415. OTD. Bargains are still to be had, especially from the younger set, who to a large degree, think of revolvers with a degree of distain.
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