I've always been a S&W revolver guy, but........

[MN2944]

I may want to add a Colt snake gun to the mix.

I got my first S&W nearly 40 years ago and have added a bunch since. I've owned Colt 1911s and a 2nd Gen SAA, but never one of their double actions. Naturally the Python is the one that comes to mind, but I'm ready to learn.

What do I need to know (other than "bring money")?

Thanks,
Mike

[bamabiker]

This is just my opinion and probably in the minority but I don't think you need a Colt, at least not an over priced Python.
Buy another S&W (or 2 or 3) and some ammo and enjoy them the way they were meant to be.

[MN2944]

Of course, you're right. I don't "need" one, so I edited to "want".

[mauser9]

I sure envy your 2nd generation Colt SAA. That's a real keeper to me.

[pigbike]

I have always like the Colt Python, but never had one. The closest I came was a Detective Special when the new style (shrouded ejector) came out. Wish I had kept it. Far cry from a Python however.

[tripledipper]

Had a .38sp 6 shot Colt Cobra from the 70's which I recently sold. It was a good shooter and a little heavier than a S&W airweight, but for use with standard pressure rounds only. Warned the buyer not to shoot +p with it. That gun was the only Colt I ever owned. LE liked to carry Colt snubbies for a backup gun because of the extra shot.

[MN2944]

Originally Posted by mauser9

I sure envy your 2nd generation Colt SAA. That's a real keeper to me.

It was my dad's. Purchased in the late 50s, I believe. I have the original grips, but left it like Dad set it up with the pearl.

[lonestar57]

I own, shoot, and collect both S&W and Colts. Colt snake guns continue to demand premium prices but two that come two mind that seem to be within most peoples reach are. The Cobra (not the new production) and the King Cobra. You can still find these two fine examples at decent prices. If money is not an issue of course the Python would be a great addition to any collection. Good luck.

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by MN2944

[...] What do I need to know (other than "bring money")?

Thanks,
Mike

Firing lots of anything but heavy magnum cartridges through a S&W just gives it a trigger job. Firing lots of even light target loads through a V main spring DA Colt puts it out of time. It was tough finding a gunsmith willing to retime a V main spring DA Colt during the 1970s and has only gotten harder. Colt lost the DA revolver market to S&W and Ruger for good reasons.

If you must demonstrate that to yourself Pythons with less frivolous barrel decorations are called Officer Models, .357s etc.

[daddio202]

Very hard to find competent smith with the tools to work on older colts. My advice is to make sure when buy that it is mechanically perfect to avoid that whole problem. Have you ever looked into colt trooper mk111 or colt 357,the colt 357 was made for only few years back in late 50' early 60's I believe. Both are the foundation for the now expensive cobra. Also the colt officers match model made in 38 spl and 22lr. I scratched my colt itch with a colt police positive special from 1949 nickel in perfect shape for under $400.

[Ashlander]

Jerry Mikulek has a video on You Tube called Revolver Showdown in which one of the guns is a Python. He doesn't trash it, but he makes the point that he they need a good Colt gunsmith handy to keep them tuned -- and they are all dying.

There's a beautiful blued Python at my local gun store where I hang out with the guys. I have never even asked to look it over. They want $3000 for it. I could buy 4 pretty good S&W revolvers for that and still have some lunch money left.

[Grayfox]

Like you, I'm primarily a S&W guy. But I do have a few Colts and like them just as much.

A 3rd issue Detective Special was my first legal carry gun. Still have it and still love it. I made the mistake of letting my wife shoot it and didn't get it back for over 20 years.
I've got a soft spot for the D-frames and have added a 4" .38 Diamondback that I lucked into at a good price. I'll never sell either one of these.

Not long ago I picked up a 6" Trooper Mark III for $600. Another excellent shooter and reasonably priced. I shot it right next to my 6" Model 19-4 and the Colt won!

I never really wanted a Python. I have a 6" only because my best friend passed away and left it to me. It is a great gun and has special meaning to me. But honestly, with the outrageous prices they now bring, I never would have bought one.
On another forum I visit a LNIB 4" Python was listed for sale at $3000. It sold rather quickly. That's just nuts.

JMHO: I think all that stuff about Colts being fragile and going out of time easily is way over blown. Unless you shoot them a whole lot with heavy loads, I think a Colt will hold up just as well as any other revolver.

[diggler1833]

A Trooper is a great way to get into the Colt DA revolvers without spending a ton of money. I have a MKIII and it is every bit as enjoyable to shoot as any of my other .357 Smiths. The MKIII was Colt's entry to streamlining the assembly process, but the revolvers are good. Older Troopers were hand-fit and are exceptional.

There are also quite a few other affordable, older-model Colts that are nothing short of excellent.

That being said, the aesthetics of the 'snake guns' are what prompted me to own mine.

[lonestar57]

Had to leave out earlier so here's the rest of my reply. I watch the Colt snake prices often and although it seems that they are all a little soft right now versus two years ago here is my opinion of the current Seven Serpent pricing; High to Low (standard production models, no special editions, special finishes, calibers, or barrel lengths). All which could effect prices.
1. Boa
2. Viper
3. Python
4. Anaconda
5. Diamondback
6. King Cobra
7. Cobra (not new production)

[Engineer1911]

For the price of a Python, you can get a Registered Magnum.

I had an 8" Python 38 Special Target model that was a mechanical and quality nightmare. Let's start with a cross threaded barrel, left side touched frame, right side was out one thread. Rear sight was against the right hand stop and gun shot 4" to the left at 25 yards with 4 different shooters.

Had the gun repaired at a Minnesota Warranty shop after Colt sent it back as "in specification" . Warranty Shop also installed a 357 mag cylinder for a modest charge. After 5 years, inflation got me all my money back, and ONE Python was enough.

[ParadiseRoad]

...I decided I wanted a Colt double action...so I acquired this Police Positive Special made in 1919...the year my Dad was born...fun to shoot...

[sodacan]

A Colt 1917 in 45acp, IMO, is a must have. One of my favorite shooters, in spite of it's tractor pull trigger. It's really cool to shoot a piece of history.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Disclaimer: I am not a herpetologist.

In fact, I own only one "snake gun," a beater 4" .22 Diamondback which is my best .22 revolver, although my pre-17 has a better SA trigger pull.

I own three D-frame C*** .38 Special revolvers, all of them reliable and not particularly accurate, at least as I can best perceive.

I also own two [E-frame] Official Police revovers, both quite accurate.

It would appear at first glance that C*** beat S&W on the patent on rotating the cylinder the right way, but both seem to have worked out reasonably well. S&W seems to have a much better DA trigger pull, but C*** seems to work fairly well for target purposes. For defensive purposes, the stacking C*** DA trigger pull is a fairly obvious advantage in limiting oneself to righteous shootings, but the advantage may be only theoretical in most cases.

I like both, and I wish I had bought that OMM .38 fifty-some years ago.

Oops. Two snakes; one of the D-frame revolvers is a Cobra.

[Rubone]

I bought a 4" Diamondback in 22LR from a friend in the '80s for $150 when she replaced it with a model 36. About 6 or 7 years ago I found a very lightly used 4" Diamondback in .38 at my LGS which he sold me for $400 out the door. They make a fine pair, but that is as much snake as I am interested in.

[silversnake]

If all you want is "a Colt" look for an Official Police. I regularly see these for under $400 in decent condition. Not a snake gun but they shoot just as well.

[ParadiseRoad]

Originally Posted by silversnake

If all you want is "a Colt" look for an Official Police. I regularly see these for under $400 in decent condition. Not a snake gun but they shoot just as well.

...the revolver of choice for many expert pistoleros...

[iPac]

Originally Posted by k22fan

Firing lots of even light target loads through a V main spring DA Colt puts it out of time.

That's just simply not true, and all the further I will go as to not come across as ignorant. If you had a Colt V spring go out of time from just shooting light target loads, then I'm inclined to say that either the gun had issues arising from previous owners or it had issues from the factory. Both are common. A properly built V spring Colt will last a long time when shot with standard ammo and not abused.

All these internet rumors/conjecture that gets spouted out and constantly repeated is nothing more than people being biased and trying to justify something, usually their own preference. However, there is some credence to the "weak" claims, but they are the result of other factors, not the design itself. Those other factors can be avoided by a knowledgeable buyer. The only wear out part of the design is the "hand", but under normal conditions it will last a very long time.

I love Colt V spring revolvers and they are just about all I will own and use. I have studied certain models extensively for years, from factory detail changes to pistolsmithing them. Once you become proficient and have an in-depth understanding of Colts, it is easy to see where the issues are arising from. Which is either poor factory build quality, previous owner induced, or both. Even though I'm a Colt guy, I will not lie or be biased towards them. I tell it like it is, something not common in a community full of vested interests.

OP, if you are serious about buying a Python, and are serious about not flushing money down the toilet, then send me PM. I have composed a 28pg buying guide for the Python based on my study of and experience with the Python. It will teach you everything you need to know to become a savvy buyer and not get ripped off. It has reference pictures for the guide showing what good mechanical condition should look like, but then I also have a collection of pics showcasing poor factory quality and owner induced mechanical issues too. There is a lot you need to be aware of when it comes to Colts, much more so than S&Ws, due the intricate design.

When it comes to price, unless you just "have to have" a Python, or you can't stand any other action besides a Colt V spring, I would just stick with S&Ws. Unless you can find a Python for a realistic price, which I consider around $1500. It is possible, but you have to have some skill and diligence. The biggest warning is to NOT buy from a "Colt specializing dealer". Unless you enjoy paying large premiums for the pleasure of someone ripping you off.

[oddshooter]

I am a S&W fan boy. I love em. I grab every model I can.

Having said that, I am also a Colt fan.
There are truisms in life, "You get what you pay for" is one.
$1500 is right. $3000 is not.
Is it worth it? Well Yes, if you can get your money out, that proves it.

Also, I see S&W model 27s hitting $1300 on GB. Absolutely worth it, and also hard to imagine a better wheelgun.

Snakes are great. To me, that's just a fact. I may have been lucky thru the years buying only good examples, but I doubt it. How much better is hard to say. I dearly love shooting my smiths.

My favorites may be my Diamondback 38s and 22s. The bluing on them looks almost wet and is deep enough to get you almost hypnotized. The fit and finish is perfect. The balance and overall feel is like no other for me. They have some of the most beautiful grips ever made. The triggers are gifts from god. Accuracy is outstanding.
If they had 8" barrels, I would do something I don't do and proclaim them "the best every made".

Prices:
All the accurate guns that go boom consistently are basically the same. They do the job, they work. Some are prettier, some may last longer, some are less expensive.
Which ones we wind up with is personal situation/preference. Trying to find "the best" is a fool's errand.
All the guns I've ever had was because they had me tingling, and they whispered into my ear, "Take me home". Same with women.
Who knows what you're going to like tomorrow morning.
We each like our own preferences, even when we don't know what they are.

Prescut

[poorbroker]

I like to say that Colt made me a Smith & Wesson guy! In 1980 I wanted a Colt Python soooo bad, but it cost twice as much as the S&W. So I bought a S&W 686 and a S&W 586 in nickel. I still have them both today and love them! I now have many other S&W's but not a single Colt.

[austintexas]

Years ago I picked up a 6 inch blued Python at a hock shop, It was a very pretty revolver and as much as I tried I could not shoot it as well as my M-19 or my heavy duty. That said I was offered a new in the box M-52. I traded, No regrets. I say buy what you like because you may be the owner for a long time.
SWCA 892

[Toblerra]

I say buy what you want. S&W is my favorite brand of revolver hands down. The model 19 is the best S&W revolver.

That being said, I just purchased a Manurhin MR73 and... so far I like it more than my model 19. It may be the best revolver made, it's certainly laid claim to the title and is considerably better made and more accurate than a Python.

Regardless of all that, no revolver is as iconic as an S&W and if it came down to it the last gun in my safe would be one, though between my 19 and 586 no dash I don't know, it's kinda like trying to choose between buzz and woody.

I digress, basically what I'm saying is, add that Python to your collection, shoot it, enjoy it, show it off and if you like it more, say so and don't apologize for it.

Concerning the price of Pythons, I think the majority of all that is hype and I honestly think it's because of a certain t.v. show on AMC about zombies. A reasonable price is prob around the $1500 range.

I myself have paid more than a thing is worth on more than one occasion, rarely have I regretted it if it was something I really wanted. I don't see my guns as a savings account, I buy what I want and sell what I''m bored with. If I were rich I wouldn't sell anything but as the French say, C'est la vie.

[gman51]

I wanted a Python because of all the hype about the trigger action and accuracy and nostalgia of the Python. I had the bucks so I got on GB and found one. A bit over two grand and at the time that is what good condition Pythons were going for. $1500 got you a Python with a gouge in the barrel like someone used it as a pry bar or some sore thumb look to it.
The trigger action is short, light, and like thin ice breaking. Mine has some cylinder and muzzle wear like it had been carried in a holster often. Is it worth what I paid for it? Anything is only worth it if you like it. It is a fine looking and accurate gun which spends most of the time in the safe but I have no plans of selling it.

I also bought a like new Colt Trooper MK V that was claimed to only have been shot at the factory when made. It came with the Colt manual and styrofoam container but not the cardboard sleeve. It does look like new and no noticeable turn line. I don't know if I will ever shoot it. I gave less than $1500 for it. The Colt MK V was the predecessor to the Colt King Cobra. The King Cobra had a Python barrel on it and it was SS instead of blued being basically the difference of it from the MK V.

My gunsmith told me there are very few gunsmiths that will work on Pythons because of the tight tolerances and basically hand made parts on the Python.
As far as price comparison of Pythons to S&W you will find many of the old S&W are priced fairly equal to the Pythons.

[Jim NNN]

A Trooper might be a less expensive way to get into Colt DA revolvers. There are even more affordable good quality models, too. I have a 97%-ish Official Police from the late 1940's. I traded for it, and by my account I have about $600 invested in it. That's a whole lot less than a Python and even less than a Trooper, while still being a great example of early Colt quality in a minty gun.

[Bakebfr480]

The cylinders spin the wrong way!

[murphydog]

If you are looking for an introductory level "snake gun", a Cobra would be a good one (or a Detective Special, steel frame without the reptilian association). They are still fairly plentiful and (sorry in advance) fill a niche no production S & W ever filled, a lightweight small(ish) frame 6-shot .38 Special. Good luck in your search.

[Housepuss]

I have a Colt Model 357 I would not trade for any snake revolver. Mine is just as accurate as any Python from what I've been told by people who have shot mine and also shot pythons.

I also have a Colt Officers Model Target in 22 cal.(1940 DOB) that is a dream to shoot. It's probably equal to my K22 Masterpieces although I shoot my K22's a lot more.......they just feel so good.

[usmc2427765]

I believe in what my old range master stated back in early 70's, " if you want a revolver, get a S&W and if you want a self loader get a 1911." Pythons are way over priced and I would rather put that money as a down payment on a registered magnum.

[DD357]

I could get behind a SSA. I've owned 3 Pythons and shot D frames. There isn't 1 Colt DA wheel gun I have any desire to own at this point. This probably should be moved FWIW.

[oddshooter]

Housepuss has it right on about the Colt 3 5 7 (pronounced - three five seven). It was the original trigger work for the Python (not the Trooper). I have several as the prices were from $500 to $750. Great guns at a fair price.

Prescut

[mogwan]

Pythons were my first wheel guns and for years I was a "Python Snob" until I realised that, as a pretty decent shooter and gunsmith, I could no longer find ANY non-bubba'd or new parts for the Colts and they were not going to last forever. Colt went down the drain trying to stay price-competitive with a hand-built, custom fitted and insanely well polished revolver. Look at Python quality from the 70's and then look at a $4000 NIB Python Elite. What a Joke! The Elites were dreadful! And look at the Colt lifetime guarantee... they had to cancel their lifetime policy on their wheel guns cause they no longer had parts and he guys who really knew how to time them are all retired or dead.

I sold all mine...from my .22 Diamondback (the best of all of 'em) right thru to my .44 Anaconda. I now own some super S&W's that are easier to work on, parts are available, and the triggers don't have ridiculous stacking. Don't even mention single-action trigger break cause if you're shooting a DA revolver in SA, you're a weenie who will never master proper trigger control. for the price of a solid Python, buy yourself three real nice S&W's unless you want the Python to impress your friends and you're a lousy shot. Here's pics of the now 'gone' Snakes... The only Pythons I have now are around the house.

[mogwan]

I much prefer my S&W's...
4" Mod 17-6
4" 617
3.5" Mod 27
686 Snubby
4" Mod 15
8" Mod 27
6" Mod 17 full underdog

and some others...

not necessarily in that order

[larryofcc]

I too am a S&W collector with about 30 of them in my safe and one in my truck, but I do have a few cherished Colts. Among them are two 60's Pythons that I bought many years ago. Higher quality in those days,I would not part with either even if the price goes to $5,000. Great revolvers and very accurate. Colt does not make a better revolver than a Python. Big Larry

[lrrifleman]

From the late 1970s up to about 2000, my gunsmith knew that I wanted a Colt revolver, but he always tried to steer me away from the Colt's, and he was a stocking dealer for S&W, Colt, and High Standard! He knew that I wanted to do NRA 3 pistol matches, and that I would be feeding my revolvers light target loads. His (Bill's) belief was that I would have to have 3-4 trigger jobs on a Colt for every trigger job on a Smith.

In the late '90s, Bill relented and said that he would sell me a Colt revolver. I wanted a Diamondback, but he was pushing me to a NIB Trooper at the price of a NIB Highway Patrolman. At the time, Bill still had NIB Detective Specials (1st & 2nd Gen), Agents, Police Positives, Pythons, Diamondbacks, the aforementioned Trooper, and a Trooper MKIII. Bill always tried to either steer me to a S&W or back to the Trooper. Bill was an old time gunsmith, he wasn't a part swapper!

In '97 or '98, we settled on a Colt Trooper MKIII 4", which Bill discounted to $329. To date, I think that I have less than 400 rounds through it.

Jump to 2015. I called Hartford, since Bill had passed back in '07. I learned that the DOB for my Trooper was 1978. I also learned that Colt would not do much work on their revolvers, and they had to purchase necessary parts from a different Colt enterprise. Basically, Colt revolvers are now unsupported orphans. With that being said, I doubt that I would consider carrying a Colt revolver in self defense, unless it was a last ditch proposition. At the moment, in the southern half of New Jersey, I am aware of only one "old time" 'smith that could be considered qualified to work on a Colt successfully, and I am not in a hurry to enlist his services!

[usm1rifle]

Be REAL careful about buying on the internet, many Pythons have been refinished and you cannot tell - sometimes even in person unless you are a Colt expert. Some big internet sellers do not know or say nothing about a gun being refinished. The savvy ones send them to Ford's and pretend to know nothing. Don't pay a premium for "original" boxes, there are people selling dozens of "new old stock" Colt boxes on eBay that are recent production.

Examine as many Pythons in person as you can. Knowledge is power.

Best wishes on your hunt.

[iPac]

Originally Posted by mogwan

Pythons were my first wheel guns and for years I was a "Python Snob" until I realised that, as a pretty decent shooter and gunsmith, I could no longer find ANY non-bubba'd or new parts for the Colts and they were not going to last forever. Colt went down the drain trying to stay price-competitive with a hand-built, custom fitted and insanely well polished revolver. Look at Python quality from the 70's and then look at a $4000 NIB Python Elite. What a Joke! The Elites were dreadful! And look at the Colt lifetime guarantee... they had to cancel their lifetime policy on their wheel guns cause they no longer had parts and he guys who really knew how to time them are all retired or dead.

I try to keep the perspective that not everyone is ME, but surely there has to be quite a few mechanically adept individuals out there capable of learning to pistolsmith. Especially with such in-depth resources available.

First, I'm not a Python "snob", but I will defend a finely made, durable revolver when needed, based on 1st hand experience. I don't think many people have experienced a truly tuned Python, or other Colt V spring action before. Once you feel the 7# DA pull of the leafspring, with 98% of the stacking eliminated, many would eat crow. The factory Colt action can be heavy and will stack, but when you have 15# DA S&Ws like my 629, there isn't much difference.

I have not had any issues finding new old stock Python parts in the last couple of years. Ebay is a great resource, and all it takes is skill to determine NOS. Have a whole pile of NOS parts purchased for dirt cheap because I knew what I was doing. I'm my own gunsmith so no fears about servicing problems. Although genuine NOS is getting scarce, but plenty of used is available, not to mention Jack First's quality repros of just about every part you could need. So options exist, and if you don't abuse a gun it should never really need servicing, except when you get a poor factory build.

One more tidbit about quality, the Python Elites were actually a little better quality than the late '70 into 80s Pythons that were made during peak production and the pre/post strike years. The earlier '70s were pretty good, but you still need to examine carefully no matter what. Only the first decade of production would I put faith in getting close to the premiere revolver it was meant to be. The late '70s is mediocre, but people just love them for the finish, which was usually over-polished due to rushing. Many think brighter/shinier is better though, to each their own, but watch the build quality. I prefer flats and sharp edges along with a solid build personally.

Can't change some people's opinions, but you can debunk certain things in the hopes of others taking something away from it. I still won't defend the current price fad that exists. I don't think Pythons, or any other Colt, is that much superior to a comparable S&W model resulting in double, triple, quadruple the cost. A change is sure to come once the younger generations take over.

[mogwan]

Hello iPac... first-not to start a flame- however according to Grant Cunningham one of the BEST Colt Smiths left in the US, the 'job' of changing the geometry is super-difficult and he knows of only one or two other smiths who were capable and PERHAPS could still do the job of changing the actual angles of the fire mechanism parts. I sadly doubt your ability. As far as retro parts from Jack First or even eBay, you are mistaken. try to find a new-even repro- ejector star..they don't exist. The Python Elites with their Garish stainless blasted finishes and pseudo-grips are junk. if the DA on your 629 is 15 lb. then that is actually in excess of factory spec and perhaps you don't want a lighter -realistic trigger pull- or you're not doing something right. a 9-10 lb DA S&W K-L-N trigger is easily obtainable if you're familiar with the gun's bearing surfaces etc.

[mogwan]

Just looked at Jack First's parts for Python. many are used and other 'new-retro' are FAR from drop-in. When a factory parts fitter assembled a gun, he would have a box of 100 hands, rebound levers, etc, in from=nt of him and dig thru until he found a close fit, then would either peen to lengthen or file to shorten the parts for correct geometry. Very difficult job for someone who doesn't do it everyday as a livelihood and is stuck with one or two parts that just don't "quite-fit"

[Truman56]

Leave the snake guns for the collectors. Find a nice Colt 3 5 7, Trooper 357, or a Officer Model Match. You won't be disappointed. Truman

[Walkingwolf]

I have passed on several guns that have some collectors value. I am not a collector, don't want to be one. I would buy a Python for a reasonable price(maybe) but there seems to be no such thing. Personally I like my Smiths, and Rugers. And would go for a DW if the price was the same instead of a Colt.

I gotta be outright honest, I have a model 64, and a GP100 service pistol. I love that GP, not sure if it had a trigger job before I got it, but it is sweet.

[BigBill]

My Python was very accurate. I could make pinpoint shots at the 100yd berm with my 140gr reloads. I miss my Python and someday I'll get another one. I'd like a trooper mklll too.

[sarg1c]

I have always been a Smith revolver man since my youth here in Eastern Kentucky, BUT I do like my Colt pocket lite to carry and my RIA 1911 just to shoot.( too large to carry).My 637 is a good CCW weapon because .38 SPC. is my favorite caliber.Still a Smith man owning a few Smith Revolvers.

[jmr986]

To the OP, bring money is #1. What I remember from the first one I had long time ago was the action. Sooooo smooth. So look for that or:

IMG_1200.jpg

Just buy one of everything you like. You know you will!

[350mag]

When they came out a python cost 135$ and a 29 was 150$.


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