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09-18-2017, 10:34 PM
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Model 58 question
Well after a bunch of looking I finally found one. Been wanting a 58 for many years. Here in Arkansas they seldom come up for sale. When they do they are either junked around with or astronomically priced. Ill admit i never thought what i gave for mine would be considered a fair price. Anyway, when i get time to take a nice pic Ill share with everyone. Now on to my question. Do any of you have any suggestions as to what works load wise for these cool ol service weapons? I would like to load 210gr bullets but I can use whatever. The loads i have for my 57 do not shoot point of aim. And they arent really even close. Of course they are magnum loads. Truth be told, probably an Elmer Keith load as are all my go to magnums. Boy I wish Elmer was around to see the 500....anyway, what would be the load that these guns were built around? Ill take any suggestions and go from there. Thanks in advance.
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09-18-2017, 10:42 PM
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I always used Unique in mine - see a loading manual for recommended loads.
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09-18-2017, 11:59 PM
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Thats the plan this week. I guess I mean to ask if the 58 was designed to shoot point of aim with a standard 210gr bullet at magnum velocity or being it a service revolver was it set up for a reduced/service load. My 65 and 13 seem to shoot well with magnum velocity 158gr bullets. I wasnt sure what the 58 was designed around. But hey, load developement is where all the fun is right? So here i go with my unique, 110, and 2400...woo hoo i cant wait to get some trigger time in!
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09-19-2017, 08:26 AM
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Carried a 58 back in the 70's as a duty weapon, still carry it occasionally and have been shooting it for decades. If you google " original 41 magnum loads" it will pull up several sites including several threads from this forum that will give you the spec's of the two original Remington loads that were marketed for the 41 magnum. The 210 JSP load which was/is a full throttle magnum load and the lead SWC load that gave the shooter a lower velocity load with a SWC.
According to what I have read the factory lead load was around 1050fps, and what Elmer had envisioned was around 950 fps. I shot some of the lead SWC factory load before I owned a chrono, so I cannot tell you exactly what it ran. Although is was a relatively soft lead bullet that leaded my bore.
I load cast SWC's over a charge of Unique that gives me 1050 fps, this has worked well for me over the years. If I load JHP's at magnum levolcities I bump up the charge of Unique or go to 2400.
The 58 is a great revolver, enjoy your's.
Last edited by loc n load; 09-19-2017 at 08:30 AM.
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09-19-2017, 08:50 AM
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I use 210-215gr LSWC in mine. I haven't run any over the chrono lately, but I want to say that they averaged 1000-1100fps with sr4756. There are some reloading recipes over on the Unofficial 8 Club page.
Good luck with your new 58, they are really a fun gun to reload for and shoot
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09-19-2017, 09:55 AM
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Cool deal. Thanks guys. Ill be putting some together tonight. Ill be sticking with the 210 bullets. Ill figure out what powder she likes and go from there.
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09-19-2017, 10:27 AM
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Not trying to be a wise guy so please don't take offense, but...
It sounds strange to hear you say that the M57, with adjustable sights, doesn't shoot to point of aim?
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09-19-2017, 12:49 PM
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When I was looking for a light cast bullet load , more like the police load the model 58 was supposed to shoot, I sent a letter to Guns and Ammo with a stamped self addressed envelope, I had the Lyman #410459 220 grain SWC mould and Unique powder.
My letter was returned with " use 7.5 to 8.0 grains with that bullet " and was signed Elmer Keith !
7.5 to 8.0 grains shoots to the sights , I use a 6 o:clock hold, with the model 58 in my avatar. Try it, it works well with the following cast SWC bullets: 195 gr , 210 gr. , 215 gr. , 220 gr.
I've tried them all.
As for your model 57, just adjust the sights, that's why they are called adjustable !
Gary
Last edited by gwpercle; 09-19-2017 at 12:52 PM.
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09-19-2017, 01:14 PM
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I use to carry a 58 as a duty weapon. I used 210 grn JHPs using 2400 loads to Keith's recommended 950~1000 fps.
This tie tack is a bullet I dug out of the dash board radio of a Ford Bronco that tried to run me down.
Worked good on everything I found that needed shootin'.
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Last edited by Iggy; 09-19-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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09-19-2017, 03:13 PM
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My LGS had some new federal 41mag 210gr. JHP ammo. The m58 barks a little with it I woke up the whole range while they were sleeping with their 380/9mm's. All eyes were on me. Then they watched me reload it and stuff it back in my waist band holster. Lol
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09-19-2017, 03:31 PM
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I have read that the original police lead swc load as 7.0 grs of Bullseye powder . The 8 gr load of Unique is a very universal well accepted load . It's a good " working mans " load for everyday carry using 200-220 gr bullet , cast / plated / jacketed . It should shoot very accurately with fixed sights. My target load in my 58 is 5.0grs of IMR 700X using the original Keith swc (HG 258) . In my 58 , the point of aim and point of impact are real close using that load . I don't have a chrono but it should be running about 850fps . Elmer Keiths target load in the 41 (model 57) was 4.5grs of Bullseye powder using his bullet . His everyday load was 7.5grs of Unique and his magnum load was , well just a bit too much 2400 for my useage . I won't quote the load . I will tell you that 17.5-18.0 grs of /2400 is for plenty of magnum type power with the above stated bullet weights .
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09-19-2017, 03:35 PM
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Mine is pretty close at reasonable police SD ranges with both the old police load and the rhino rollers.
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09-19-2017, 03:56 PM
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Isn't the 215gr swc lead loaded at 7gr or 8grs of unique?
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09-19-2017, 05:28 PM
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Starline now carries 0.41 Special cases. I know that the round never existed but I use it in both a 6" and 8 3/8 ths versions. Excellent round and not as much recoil. Dave_n
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09-19-2017, 06:14 PM
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Most of my .41 mag cartridges use 6.5 grains of Red Dot powder, Winchester large pistol primer and a 215 grain commercial bullet. That load shoots to point of aim and makes about 950 fps from my 4 inch guns and 1000 from my 6 inch gun. My eyes aren't what they used to be so I shoot at 25 feet. I have shot many one hole groups from that distance with my favorite model 58. Dean
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09-19-2017, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy
I use to carry a 58 as a duty weapon. I used 210 grn JHPs using 2400 loads to Keith's recommended 950~1000 fps.
This tie tack is a bullet I dug out of the dash board radio of a Ford Bronco that tried to run me down.
Worked good on everything I found that needed shootin'.
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Good night, Iggy. Now I have to find that .44 Spl SWC that did the same thing to a '65 Dodge pickup. Like I need another tie tack.
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09-19-2017, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash
Not trying to be a wise guy so please don't take offense, but...
It sounds strange to hear you say that the M57, with adjustable sights, doesn't shoot to point of aim?
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No, thats not at all what i said. The loads I have for my 57 that are full power loads do not shoot point of aim in my 58. Leading me to ponder if the 58 was cut for lower velocity loads as one might suspect to see in a service load. It surprised me as my other fixed sight magnums perform well with magnum level loads
Last edited by Nframe29; 09-19-2017 at 06:51 PM.
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09-19-2017, 06:49 PM
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IGGY, i love that story. I have read it here before. One I will always remember. I have mentioned it a time or two during campfire talk. Of course i started off saying "a buddy of mine" lol, i may have lied a bit but hey i consider any fellow S&W revolver owner a buddy. Thanks for sharing again!
Last edited by Nframe29; 09-19-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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09-19-2017, 07:31 PM
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My recollection is that the service load (in which the bullet leaded like a fiend) shot pretty much POA/POI in my M58 when I had some. Mine has been customized and the front sight is now a fiber optic so I can't recreate the experience. I do have some (Georgia Arms, IIRC) LSWC rounds that are pretty reasonable and they shoot pretty much POA/POI. For all around use, except when expecting dangerous (4 legged) animals, the 210-ish grain loads at 900 or so are pretty good. I would have complete confidence in using those for personal defense or LE service.
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09-19-2017, 08:05 PM
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Well lets see if the pic works.
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09-19-2017, 08:13 PM
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And right now 7.5gr of red dot amd a 215gr bullet is shooting well. Moderate recoil and outstanding accuracy. I would have no issues carrying this gun for defense. Thanks again everyone.
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09-20-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n
Starline now carries 0.41 Special cases. I know that the round never existed but I use it in both a 6" and 8 3/8 ths versions. Excellent round and not as much recoil. Dave_n
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What do you use for loading dies ? I was considering trying the 41 Special but wasn't sure if my old Herters and Bonanza 41 magnum dies would work. I don't have any way to properly shorten a hardened steel sizer die.
Last edited by gwpercle; 09-20-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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09-20-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
What do you use for loading dies ? I was considering trying the 41 Special but wasn't sure if my old Herters and Bonanza 41 magnum dies would work. I don't have any way to properly shorten a hardened steel sizer die.
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All you'd have to do is shorten a seater so that it will crimp .41 Special. While I no longer had a .45 Colt I hand held my RCBS .45 Colt seater to a grinder so that I could roll crimp .45 Auto Rim. The lack of a proper lathe cut does not detract from its function with either cartridge. Old Herters dies are inexpensive so there would not be a great loss when it comes time to resell the dies. Besides, you'd still have your Bonanza dies.
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09-20-2017, 04:58 PM
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Nframe29.... Was just wondering what load you were using in the 57 that was not printing to the sights of the 58 and how far you were shooting with the 58...
The original Remington and Winchester 210 LSW Police load clocked an average of 950 from a 4" barrel. I chronographed some of each last year and one averaged about 15 fps faster and the other 15 fps slower than 950.
8.0 grains of Unique with a 200-220 grain bullet will run between 925 and 975 fps depending on the bullet with 8.0 from a 4" barrel. It is also the most accurate load I have ever run in the .41.
Using a Keith HP weighing 215 grains, 8.0 runs 950, 9.0 1100 and 10.0 1180 from a 4". A 230 Keith ran 975.
I've had about 10 58s since my first one in 1974. Of the ten two did not shoot to the sights with a standard 950 fps load. One shot very low and the other left.
And as with any fixed sight gun, it may shoot POA for one shooter and with the exact same load not shoot to POA for another.
Bob
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09-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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My M58 came from member SAFireman a few years ago. Have enjoyed it immensely.
It's probably one of very few M58's used as a hunting handgun. Have taken a few deer with it, near max dose of WW296 and a Hornady 210 gr. XTP JHP. Most are either DRT or very close.
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09-20-2017, 06:40 PM
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Never did have a chronograph to run my reloads through.. Looks like they were a leetle warmer than I thought...
According to what I'm readin' these days maybe that tablespoon full of 2400 and teaspoon full of Unique might have been rompin' along purty good.
Everything I shot with that old 58 was a one shot stop, even the Bronco..
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Last edited by Iggy; 09-20-2017 at 06:44 PM.
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09-21-2017, 09:43 AM
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I had a special shoulder holster rig ( left handed) made for my 58 . It's my " conceal carry " rig , under any light coat .
I purchased some 41special brass from starline . To crimp , I just used the main body part from my Lee Handloader 41 mag kit that crimps the bullet . Afterwards I decided , just use the regular magnum case for all my loads , target , mid range and magnum .
I have read that 10grs of Herco with a 210gr bullet makes a real nice " upper " mid range load . I have yet to try it .
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