I saw a Pre model 15, blued, 6" with a partridge sight instead of a B ramp, anyone ever see one? The guy knew nothing about it and no paperwork. Looked factory like a K38 m14 barrel.

Could it ne a pre 14 gun instead? Need some more info and pictures.

The guy said it was a model 15, but I pointed out it was a pre 15 to him. I have no pics of it.

Why do you call it a "pre 15". If it is not model marked and has a 6" barrel, then it is much more likely to be a .38 Masterpiece Target, which normally has a 6" barrel and a Patridge sight. Early Masterpiece Targets had narrow rib barrels, then a wide rib barrel became optional, and finally the wide rib barrel was standarsd and the only type available.

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Tom
1560

I don't know know looking at it it looks like a pre 15 but maybe it is a 14 k38 thin taper barrel. Do ya know apprx value VS pre 15?

It's not a pre-15. That would be a 4" Combat Masterpiece. You are describing a pre-14, which is a 6" Target Masterpiece. Your dealer just has his nomenclatures mixed up. In the first pic bottom gun is a "Pre-15" Combat Masterpiece. The top gun is a Model 15-3 Combat Masterpiece. The second pic is of a "Pre-14" Target Masterpiece. Sorry, it's the only pic I had. But, you get the idea. As to value of pre-15 vs pre-14, depending on condition, they are most likely about equal value

Attached Images

	Combat Masterpieces Left.jpg (179.3 KB, 33 views)
	S&W Model 14 5 screw L.jpg (96.0 KB, 37 views)

While there is more demand for shorter barrels the number of standard 6" barrel (skinny, thin rib) Masterpieces is tiny compared to the number of Combat Masterpieces. Combat Masterpieces, both pre-model numbered and Model 15s, with their standard 4" skinny barrel and thin rib were one of S&W's best sellers for about 40 years. In contrast, after only a few years production the Masterpiece's standard 6" barrel was superseded by 6" heavy barrels then only offered as an option for a few more years. Additionally 4" barrel .38s always sold in larger quantities than similar 6" .38s. It should be obvious which is worth more in collectable condition.

Which suits your tastes or needs better is a different but perhaps more relevant question.

If you pre 14 pictured above had the pre 15's sculpted hammer, then the 2 would look the same. That's what through me off was the hammer. and being a 6" together.

That hammer with the lifted spur was standard on the postwar K-38 Masterpiece and the .38 Combat Masterpiece up until about the mid-1950s. It is not a way to determine the difference between a Masterpiece and a Combat Masterpiece.

Here is a Combat Masterpiece from 1952, with that hammer.


The difference between a K-38 Masterpiece and a .38 Combat Masterpiece from the years before the Heavy Masterpiece came along is strictly the barrel length and the front sight. Barrel and frame contours, rear sight, hammer, etc., were the same. (Special orders, of course, can have an effect, but we are talking regular production here.)

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

If you look again at KenL's second photo, you will see that the gun pictured is a K-38 Heavy Masterpiece. The barrel does not flare just before it meets the frame. This gun is young enough to have the newer hammer spur shape. The hammer type in my picture above and in KenL's first photo was phased out as the newer, flatter style took its place. I cannot nail down a date when this occurred, but two K-38 Masterpieces I own from 1956 have the newer style hammer. And by that time the Heavy Masterpiece was standard.

Edit: I have a 5 screw Heavy Masterpiece from 1954, but I don't have time right now to dig it out of the safe to see which hammer it wears. If I get time later, I'll do that.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318