S&W 64-1: Questions

Handgunner00 · #1 10-14-2017, 02:24 PM

Just bought this 64-1 at a local gun show and it appears to be unfired - no cylinder ring or wear marks and I had to work WD-40 into the crane to loosen up the cylinder rotation. S&W Customer Service says this 64-1 dates to 1974 and I think it may have sat in a collector's safe untouched since then. From the photos provided, I would appreciate an assessment if this 64-1 has a target trigger and hammer. Also, is there a purpose to the pin hole in the upper section of the hammer? If you need more precise photos or more detail, let me know. Thanks.

Peter

jinx · #2 10-14-2017, 02:36 PM

It does not have a target trigger or hammer. As for the "pinhole", that is where the firing pin is attached to the hammer. This is a hammer mounted firing pin.

JP@AK · #3 10-14-2017, 02:36 PM

Neither the hammer nor the trigger are the target style. Both are standard width. Target triggers and hammers are wider.

The "hole" you see on the hammer is how the firing pin (known as the hammer nose) is attached to the hammer. A roll pin is inserted here to hold the hammer nose in place, while allowing it to rotate slightly up and down. It is also under spring tension. It has to be able to flex when it comes down and enters the hole through the recoil shield, where it protrudes into the cylinder window and strikes the primer of the cartridge.

All centerfire hand ejectors used this system until the 1990s, when S&W went to the frame mounted floating firing pin (like the rimfires had used for decades).

GCF · #4 10-14-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handgunner00

From the photos provided, I would appreciate an assessment if this 64-1 has a target trigger and hammer. Also, is there a purpose to the pin hole in the upper section of the hammer? If you need more precise photos or more detail, let me know. Thanks.

Peter

Looks like a service hammer, & service trigger. Unless I'm missing something, the hole in the side of the hammer, is for the roll pin - that retains the firing pin.

Appears to be a nice piece over all. If the action is straight, it should be a great shooter.

Can you show a good focus pic of the front of the cylinder, when swung out of the frame?

Attached is a pic of a factory fired only, 3" M64-3, that I owned at one point.

Handgunner00 · #5 10-14-2017, 09:59 PM

For GCF: Close up photos of open cylinder provided per your request. Comment?

Peter

murphydog · #6 10-14-2017, 10:18 PM

Agree, the "service" width (0.265") hammer and trigger. S & W calls the pin that holds the hammer nose a "rivet". Looking good at age 43

.

Jim NNN · #7 10-15-2017, 12:25 AM

There's some debate as to whether WD-40 is the best thing to use on a gun. If it were me, I'd remove the cylinder and crane (via removing the most forward side plate screw - BE CAREFUL with a gun that nice) and then take apart the assembly to gain access to all the areas that need to be lubricated. Don't use 3 in 1 oil, either. Maybe use Rem-oil or something. Or Hoppe's oil.

Handgunner00 · #8 10-15-2017, 09:21 AM

Thanks all for the good info on my hammer and trigger question. And, thanks Jim for the wise counsel on which lubricants to use and not use on my 64-1.

Peter

Alk8944 · #9 10-15-2017, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

The "hole" you see on the hammer is how the firing pin (known as the hammer nose) is attached to the hammer. A roll pin is inserted here to hold the hammer nose in place, while allowing it to rotate slightly up and down. It is also under spring tension. It has to be able to flex when it comes down and enters the hole through the recoil shield, where it protrudes into the cylinder window and strikes the primer of the cartridge.

Jack,

I agree with all of what you said except these two points. Roll pins have never been used to retain the hammer nose, they are hollow or tubular rivets, and referred to as such in parts lists and diagrams.

Second, about the spring-loaded hammer nose. If you had said may be spring loaded I would have no argument, but far from all fixed-sight guns had this feature

Alk8944 · #10 10-15-2017, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim NNN

There's some debate as to whether WD-40 is the best thing to use on a gun. If it were me, I'd remove the cylinder and crane (via removing the most forward side plate screw - BE CAREFUL with a gun that nice) and then take apart the assembly to gain access to all the areas that need to be lubricated. Don't use 3 in 1 oil, either. Maybe use Rem-oil or something. Or Hoppe's oil.

No argument about WD-40 and firearms, it should not be used and has poor lubricating properties. It contains fish oil, which is a "drying oil", that will gum up. Almost as bad as using Linseed oil or any other wood finishing product.

But:

Any oil suitable for sewing machines or other such mechanisms is perfectly acceptable for revolvers, and all firearms, and "3-in-1" definitely qualifies, and has been used for firearms lubrication for over a century!

Explain why you made this remark! I will bet that Hoppe's Oil that you seem to recommend is chemically and physically indistinguishable from 3-in-1.

Handgunner00 · #11 10-15-2017, 10:59 AM

Following your guidance, guys, I just successfully removed the cylinder and crane, purged any remaining WD-40, lightly oiled these parts with Hoppe's, then reassembled the revolver. Again and again, the S&W Forum members prove invaluable to firearm novices like me.

Peter

JP@AK · #12 10-15-2017, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

Jack,

I agree with all of what you said except these two points. Roll pins have never been used to retain the hammer nose, they are hollow or tubular rivets, and referred to as such in parts lists and diagrams.

Second, about the spring-loaded hammer nose. If you had said may be spring loaded I would have no argument, but far from all fixed-sight guns had this feature

Thanks.

On point #1, you are absolutely right. My error. I should have said "hollow rivet." I knew this, just got out over my skis.

Point #2 is interesting. I will have to pull a dozen or two guns out of my safe and check each one to see if any aren't loaded with a spring. I haven't paid that much attention to some of them, but I can't recall any that don't spring back up if you push down on the hammer nose. To look individually at all the S&W revolvers (even just the fixed sight examples) in my safe would take some hours, so I don't know that I'll do that any time soon. I have caribou to go kill this time of year!

GCF · #13 10-15-2017, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

... Roll pins have never been used to retain the hammer nose, they are hollow or tubular rivets, and referred to as such in parts lists and diagrams.

Thanks for the correction.

imakmst · #14 10-15-2017, 12:45 PM

I can't help sayin' this:

Have you shot it yet?

nedlate · #15 10-15-2017, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

To look individually at all the S&W revolvers (even just the fixed sight examples) in my safe would take some hours, so I don't know that I'll do that any time soon. I have caribou to go kill this time of year!

Jack!-Could you adopt me and I will be happy to look for you!!

Ed

JP@AK · #16 10-15-2017, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedlate

Jack!-Could you adopt me and I will be happy to look for you!!

Ed

I have four sons and a daughter, 24 grandchildren and one great grandson (and counting). When I croak, they will be dividing my collection among them. I doubt they'd welcome another member of the party, but you can ask them at the time!

Walkingwolf · #17 10-15-2017, 02:08 PM

Nice find, a good many service revolvers were not issued. That is the depts bought more guns than the actual amount of officers. A lot of those guns are appearing lately on the market. The model 64 was never thought of as a collector, as there were so many of them manufactured. The first department I worked eventually issued 64's IIRC they ordered 40 for a department of 25 officers.

kthom · #18 10-15-2017, 05:12 PM

I believe all the S&W revolvers that I have or have seen without the spring as part of the hammer nose attachment were older models. But both arrangements are definitely out there. All you have to do is wiggle the hammer nose up or down and let go and you can tell right away if there is a spring hidden underneath.

Handgunner00 · #19 10-15-2017, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imakmst

I can't help sayin' this:

Have you shot it yet?

Nope. Only had it a couple of weeks and I'm still wrestling with the question of whether this mint condition 64-1 is a collection firearm or a shooter.

Peter

Gunsnwater · #20 10-15-2017, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Thanks.

On point #1, you are absolutely right. My error. I should have said "hollow rivet." I knew this, just got out over my skis.

Point #2 is interesting. I will have to pull a dozen or two guns out of my safe and check each one to see if any aren't loaded with a spring. I haven't paid that much attention to some of them, but I can't recall any that don't spring back up if you push down on the hammer nose. To look individually at all the S&W revolvers (even just the fixed sight examples) in my safe would take some hours, so I don't know that I'll do that any time soon. I have caribou to go kill this time of year!

Lots don't have the spring. S&W found they weren't needed, but I had one 64 police trade that needed me to install the spring or the nose would catch on a little lip inside and not stick through the firing pin hole.

GCF · #21 10-16-2017, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handgunner00

Nope. Only had it a couple of weeks and I'm still wrestling with the question of whether this mint condition 64-1 is a collection firearm or a shooter.

Peter

Are you a hand loader? Cast WC, or SWC target loads are a treat.

Even if truly un-fired (outside the factory), seriously doubt it will ever gain enough value sitting in your safe, to justify depriving yourself of all the fun.

As long as it's not abused, firing your little gem will not depreciate it enough to worry about.

Of course as they say, YMMV...

I bought a LNIB 3" M65-3 from a forum member a while back. So clean & tight, it was impossible to tell if it had been fired outside the factory - although I suspect it had. Got it in my head that I should keep her virginal - to maintain "investment value".

Every time I opened the safe, there she sat - sadly un-fulfilled, in her little blue cardboard box.

That went on for about a year - before I finally came to my senses. Gotta tell ya' - we are BOTH a lot happier now!

Zipdog · #22 10-16-2017, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim NNN

There's some debate as to whether WD-40 is the best thing to use on a gun. If it were me, I'd remove the cylinder and crane (via removing the most forward side plate screw - BE CAREFUL with a gun that nice) and then take apart the assembly to gain access to all the areas that need to be lubricated. Don't use 3 in 1 oil, either. Maybe use Rem-oil or something. Or Hoppe's oil.

3 in 1 oil is just fine

Inusuit · #23 10-16-2017, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

No argument about WD-40 and firearms, it should not be used and has poor lubricating properties. It contains fish oil, which is a "drying oil", that will gum up.

Time to retire this urban myth.

WD-40 does not contain fish oil nor does it contain silicone, kerosene, water, wax, graphite, chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).

From this website:
WD-40: Strange Facts and Myths

You are correct however that it is not a good lubricant, but rather is intended as a water displacer, hence "WD."