I’m always in the market for an older model 17, K22 Masterpiece or Outdoorsman. The search has ramped up a bit as of late, and one 17-3 had me wondering about a specific feature: Did the 17-3 or other 17s ever ship from the factory with ramp sights with red (or any other color) inserts? The SCSW doesn’t specify as far as I could find. The insert looks nicely done, but I can’t tell if it was original or not.

Also, a while ago I posted about a SAO pre-17 (K22 Masterpiece 3rd Model) that was supposedly a factory configured gun. I am still leaning toward making an offer for it, and I am wondering if I were to buy it, would later 17 parts cross reference to the pre-17, if I were to convert it to SA/DA? My understanding is that either the hammer or sear needs to be swapped out, and , from what I can find, the pre-17 is the same as the 17, or at least the early ones...

What say you all?


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Go for it. I would like to find a SAO pre 17.

I've never seen a red ramp insert, but it is S&W we are talking about, they'd do anything you wanted! I'm also pretty sure they made SAO k-22's, I've seen a couple, but don't know if they were factory.

with the early, pre-17 / 18 you could get any combination of accessories on the gun from S&W as listed in their catalog. I have a pre-17 (1947) with a RRF, WOR, TH, TT from the factory. Have the same on a pre-18.

For the SA only, I know king had a series of target trigger/hammer combinations for the bullseye shooter that offered SAO or a very short DA which in some cases would not reliably fire DA but shorted the SA lock time.

I have not personally seen a M17 with a Ramp Front Sight and have never seen them cataloged that way, but I'm sure somewhere out there a few exist.

Back in 1979 I purchased a M10 2" RB (Nickel) and had all sorts of major problems with it. After returning it to the factory in person numerous times, Fran Longton (A Mgr. at the Plant) felt so bad he said he'd build me a M10 in any configuration I wanted at no charge in exchange for my unserviceable M10. I also did not want the new gun in Nickel. He made up a M10 2" RB with a Red Ramp front sight and a few extra features too. The gun wore a special set of Diamond Magna's that were long discontinued by then (guess he had some squirreled away) and the guns Blueing was like a M27's high gloss mirror finish. The action was like glass and there was not a flaw to be found.

I was quite happy and I doubt there were too many other Snubby M10's like this one - which came wright from the Factory! Like an idiot I sold it a few years later. That is the one gun I truly regret selling!

Like some have said, you never know what S&W has done over the years that was not cataloged!

I have not personally seen a Single Action Only Pre 17 or any 17. I'm sure there are some floating around somewhere, but by removing the double action sear from the hammer will effectively make it into a single action. For Factory SAO (like a 14-3) the entire hammer is different.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244