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01-05-2018, 05:19 PM
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K-Model S&W Masterpiece VS Combat Masterpeice
Could some please explain the difference to me, between a S&W K-Model Masterpiece and a S&W K-Model Combat Masterpiece. I keep hearing about both Models here on this Forum. And I don`t have a clue as to what the difference is between them. I originally thought that the K-22 was called the Masterpiece. And the K-38 was called the Combat Masterpiece. But now I really don`t think that is right. Thanks in advance for the information.
ken
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01-05-2018, 05:21 PM
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Two inches?
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01-05-2018, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu
Two inches?
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And, depending on the time frame regarding the
barrel thicknesses, that about sums it up.
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01-05-2018, 05:35 PM
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All kidding aside, as far as I know the Combat Masterpiece is a 4 inch barrel revolver, the target masterpiece has a 6 or 8 3/8 inch barrel.
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01-05-2018, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu
All kidding aside, as far as I know the Combat Masterpiece is a 4 inch barrel revolver, the target masterpiece has a 6 or 8 3/8 inch barrel.
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Don't forget the Combat Masterpiece could also
shrink to a 2-inch barrel.
And then by the mid-80s the CM ended up with
a K-38 barrel and the K-38 at some point sprouted
a 586-style barrel.
Shortly after, some members of the S&W marketing
department were retired early for mental problems.
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01-05-2018, 06:13 PM
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Part of the confusion could be that the Masterpiece and Combat Masterpiece were all made in 3 calibers - .22, .32, and .38 Special. Note: there is no "target" in the Masterpiece name. Various barrel lengths, barrel profiles, and barrel rib widths provide a large variety of options. Also different hammers, triggers, front sights, and stocks show up. All have adjustable rear target sights. The Masterpiece line could provide a lifetime of collecting potential. Bring cash for the more obscure variations.
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Last edited by Peak53; 01-05-2018 at 06:22 PM.
Reason: more details
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01-05-2018, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt-t
Could some please explain the difference to me, between a S&W K-Model Masterpiece and a S&W K-Model Combat Masterpiece.
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Hi Ken
Others have given you some bits, but let me round it out for you:
Both the K-22 and K-38 Masterpiece revolvers were 6" target guns in the beginning, starting (sort of) in the late 1940s. The standard configuration included a Patridge target front sight.
Around the turn of the decade, the company introduced a version with a shorter barrel, intended as a working gun. It came with a 4" barrel and a Baughman ramp front sight, for better clearance from a holster. These were dubbed the .22 Combat Masterpiece and the .38 Combat Masterpiece, respectively. (Note: S&W did not call the two Combat Masterpiece revolvers K-22 or K-38 - the names I identified above were the official names).
Later in the 1950s, the .38 Combat Masterpiece was also offered with a 2" barrel, also with the Baughman front sight.
In 1958, these four revolvers had model numbers added to them, as follows:
K-22 Masterpiece, Model 17
.22 Combat Masterpiece, Model 18
K-38 Masterpiece, Model 14
.38 Combat Masterpiece, Model 15
A lot more could be said about variations, including the profile of the barrel on the K-38. But that gives you a summary of the history.
There was, of course, the cousin to the K-22 and K-38, namely the K-32 (later, the Model 16). At one point, there was the intention of bringing a .32 Combat Masterpiece into production. However, the idea was scuttled after only a few were assembled and full production never started.
I hope this helps.
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01-05-2018, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak53
Part of the confusion could be that the Masterpiece and Combat Masterpiece were all made in 3 calibers - .22, .32, and .38 Special. Note: there is no "target" in the Masterpiece name. Various barrel lengths, barrel profiles, and barrel rib widths provide a large variety of options. Also different hammers, triggers, front sights, and stocks show up. All have adjustable rear target sights. The Masterpiece line could provide a lifetime of collecting potential. Bring cash for the more obscure variations.
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And you are right off course. I have often heard them called target masterpiece, but that is not their official name.
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01-05-2018, 06:32 PM
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Rule number 1 with S&W is there are no rules with S&W.
The first appearance of the 4" K-38 "Combat Masterpiece" is in the 1950 All Models circular, the .22lr version followed shortly after as well as a handful of .32's .
The Combat Masterpiece is initially the same gun as the 6" but with a Baughman site blade on a longer site base and 4" barrel,
The 6" guns had a shorter site base with a Patridge front site blade.
A small amount of 5" versions were offered that bridge the gap between the two.
Eventually the 6" K-38_K32 _K-22 Masterpiece become the Model 14, Model 16 and Model 17 and by the dawn of model marking the 6" and 4" guns had a different barrel rib.
The 4" K-38 became the Model 15 and the 4" K-22 became the Model 18 although there were some 4" Model 14's offered at times.
As stated a 2" snub K-38 Combat Masterpiece was offered in blue and nickel.
At this point Combat Masterpiece revolvers had been offered in 2", 4"and 5" and a stainless version of the Model 15 appears in 1972 as the Model 67,
On a side note the .357 Combat Magnum first appears in late 1955 as a 4" gun,
The 6" and 2.5" versions are introduced around 1965 during the 19-2 revision as well as smaller amount of 3" versions and all are named "Combat Magnum"
Years later during the 15-5 and Model 14-6 revision both were offered in 4", 6" and 8 3/8" barrel lengths
Last edited by Engine49guy; 01-05-2018 at 06:38 PM.
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01-05-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
The first appearance of the 4" K-38 "Combat Masterpiece" is in the 1950 All Models circular
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Guy
Are you certain of this? I have searched high and low and never been able to find anyplace that S&W called the .38 Combat Masterpiece a " K-38 Combat Masterpiece." I do not have a copy of the AMC from 1950.
If I am incorrect, I would sure like to know about it.
(BTW - I'm quite aware that Supica and Nahas use the K-38 language on the CM in the book. But until the 4th Edition, they persisted in adding "Target" to the name of the K-38 Masterpiece. So this proves nothing.)
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01-05-2018, 07:09 PM
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Its all in the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Supica and Nahas. Every fact and figure.
What all the numbers don't tell you is what fun they are to shoot.
The K38CM is a 4" and K38M is a 6"
I spent a portion of the morning firing wadcutters from a K38CM and a Model 14 6".
Fun !
First shot from the CM was an X at 25yards. It was downhill from there , but 100 rounds later I was still smiling .
Have fun.
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01-05-2018, 07:29 PM
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Jack you are correct I added the K-38 part,
My earliest AMC is red top dated Dec 1951 and appears simply as:
The Combat Masterpiece
below that says
A Short Action, Target Grade, Holster Gun
For
Law Enforcement Officers
CALIBER. .38 S&W Special
small sub text below the ad says
"This Model is also available in .22 Long Rifle Caliber for Training Purposes".
Last edited by Engine49guy; 01-05-2018 at 07:33 PM.
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01-05-2018, 07:56 PM
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The Combat Masterpieces have tapered barrels while the Masterpieces have heavy barrels. There were some 4 inch barrel Masterpieces that were special order.
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01-05-2018, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
Jack you are correct I added the K-38 part,
My earliest AMC is red top dated Dec 1951 and appears simply as:
The Combat Masterpiece
below that says
A Short Action, Target Grade, Holster Gun
For
Law Enforcement Officers
CALIBER. .38 S&W Special
small sub text below the ad says
"This Model is also available in .22 Long Rifle Caliber for Training Purposes".
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Thanks Brad. Very helpful.
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Last edited by JP@AK; 01-06-2018 at 02:02 AM.
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01-06-2018, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex
The Combat Masterpieces have tapered barrels while the Masterpieces have heavy barrels
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This is true after about 1953 or so (although I would call it a "straight barrel" rather than a "heavy barrel"). Originally the K-38 Masterpiece had the tapered barrel. Then they came out with the K-38 Heavy Masterpiece and both were made for a short while. Soon, however, the tapered barrel on the K-38 Masterpiece was dropped in favor of standardizing the Heavy Masterpiece. For a number of years, the .38 Combat Masterpiece retained the tapered barrel (I believe until the -5 variation).
Incidentally, when the Heavy Masterpiece was introduced, there was a slight change to the shape of the frame where the barrel mates to it. This change became a minor but noticeable difference between the K-38 Masterpiece and the .38 Combat Masterpiece for several years. You can see the difference in these two pictures:
Flat frame cut on a K-38:
Tapered frame cut on the Combat Masterpiece:
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01-06-2018, 04:45 PM
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.38 Combat Masterpiece
Last week, I purchased an excellent condition S&W .38 Combat Masterpiece (model 15-2; blue finish; 4-inch barrel; S/N K7190XX) in the original box, with a cleaning rod and bore brush. Shoots great, just like the weapon I carried as Air Force Security Police '78 - '82.
I'm going to order a copy of the Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson 4th edition, but in the meantime, can anyone tell me when my new treasure was manufactured?
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01-06-2018, 05:08 PM
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Made in 1967, right near the end of the -2. The Model 15-3 was introduced that year.
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01-06-2018, 06:40 PM
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.38 Combat Masterpiece
Thank you, sir.
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01-06-2018, 07:22 PM
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New to the forum, so just learning the site. Attached are photos of my 15-2 and the box end.
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01-07-2018, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RdrBill
All.
Here this will make it all clear. It is a 4 inch K22.
This is a lettered gun. One of 20 in a shipment in May 1950.
K75XXX
Bill@Yuma
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Nice early K-22 Combat Masterpiece Bill, I have its twin that shipped October 1949.
While early run factory made K-22 and K-32 Combat Masterpiece revolvers with Patridge FS and short ramp (from the 6" guns) do occasionally surface have yet to ever find an early .38 CM with the Patridge FS and short ramp,
Always wondered if it exists or if the earliest ones had the Baughman FS on long ramp from the start ?
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01-07-2018, 09:24 PM
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I just wanted to ((( Thank All Of You ))) for your help, info, and advice. You Guys are like my own private set of Encyclopedias on the questions I have come up with concerning S&W Revolvers. Thanks for letting me join Your Forum, I really enjoy it.
ken
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