A local gun dealer has a pinned barrel .38 S&W special. I’m amazed at how much rough machining is evident under the nickel finish. The cylinder flutes and front sight rib look like dull tooling was used and with very little attempt made to clean up the work.

I do not see a lot of nickel Smith’s. Is this kind of shoddy polish work versus blued guns the norm?

In a word no, without seeing the gun you are looking at I am betting on a poorly done post factory nickle job. Was the hammer and trigger nickle plated how did side plate seam look? Are there other signs of a refinish such as rounded corners, pins polished flat, shallow rollmarks ?

I'm with merl67 - from what I've seen the machining & polishing is just as good or better. I have noticed that inside the crane area the machining seems to stand out a tiny bit more due to the shinier surface.

Absolutely not. My knee-jerk reaction is the gun was done immediately prior to tool changing time---and it was early on Monday---or late on Friday----and the inspector had lost his glasses.

If anything, guns to be finished in nickel are subject to a higher polish. I suspect both you and I either would have not bought the gun (when new)----or would have sent it back to the factory along with a somewhat less than kind note attached. Odds are we would have received a different gun in return-------and the offending piece would have been scrapped--as it should have been in the first place.

Ralph Tremaine

Actually, as they moved beyond the late 1970's roughness became more apparent. Not on the primary surfaces, but in some of the nooks and crannies. Also, not on the vast majority of post-war nickel Smiths. In my large collection of post-war nickel Smiths, I don't see anything but perfection up until about 1978. After that, not quite as perfect in some cases.

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Dr. B

And that's because the change in philosophy had been completed.

Operating philosophy #1: We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price.

That seemed to be working rather well, so they changed it---to keep pace with the times don't you know.

Operating philosophy #2: We will be successful if we build our product at the lowest possible cost.

Hmmmmmmmmmm??

Ralph Tremaine

got to agree with DocB and Ralph. I started selling new S&Ws in the late 60s, and every nickel gun was perfect.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I think it's refinished. Polishers took pride in their work. This excuse people use, it was done on Monday, or Friday, or before a holiday, poor tooling are incorrect. Ever hear of Inspectors. A poorly polished frame may slip by the Polishing Department Inspector, or the Plating Department Inspector, who by the way inspects it twice, once when it arrives in the Polishing Department. He determines it it is suitable for plating. After plating it is inspected. He looks for imperfections in the finish. After plating, back it goes to Polishing. It's again inspected before final polishing. After it's inspected, it's polished a final time. If you guessed before it leaves the Polishing Department it's again inspected, your correct! Then on to the Final Fitting Department where yup, it's inspected again. All parts are finally assembled in a revolver. It's again inspected. Finally on to the Shipping. Look at the .38 M&P Victory Models. Here you would expect to find poorly polished frames. Yes, they weren't as finely polished like the civilian market, but they weren't bad. Without seeing pictures, my monies on refinished outside S&W.

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Don Mundell

I'd say "luck of the draw". Meaning rather, luck of who finished you gun at the time. People tend to think guns are perfect, but you'd be surprised at what they put out the doors at certain times.

My '80 model 17 has deep machining lines in the cylinder flutes under the bluing. Also has some other lines under the finish here and there. They did a poor bevel job on the right side's front frame edge.

That model 17 is not alone. You have to go back to the '50s and pre-war2 to find guns that are close to perfect, and even then it's not guaranteed but the laborers put a lot more pride into their work so it's much less common.

By the 1980s the nickel on Smiths just didn't seem to
hold up or be as good, as Doc says.

I seem to remember someone telling me that Smith
dropped the practice of a copper base to nickel so the
nickel would adhere better. As a result, flaking was
more common.

Also in those days it was accepted that Colt not only
polished the guns better before nickeling but also
did a better job in applying the nickel on a copper
surface.

UncleEd, S&W never used copper plating beneath their nickel finishes. I don't know about Colt, but S&W never got into that practice and their nickel finishes are more durable because there is no copper beneath the nickel. From the little bit I've gathered, the copper plating beneath the nickel plating is a shortcut to getting a nice finish but makes it much more fragile and easier to damage with ammonia based cleaners.

Recall that S & W used to stamp “N” to indicate a nickel finish; I take this to mean the level of polishing was higher than that for a blued gun, but I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong .

Photos would help for an opinion on the nickel gun the OP saw.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

This is my Model 29-10 shipped in October 2006. It is polished and finished just as well as my 44 Magnums from the 50s and 60s. Click on the photo for a better look.

Bill

Nonsense. Not a Smith but a nickel Python. If anything, it was polished better than gorgeous blue. Mine's a 4" that input Eliason target sights on. I've had several nickel Smiths that were great finishwise
Smiths

I have a nickel 10-5 2" with no N marking. Should I assume that it is a refinish, or were some guns put out by S&W without the N ?

..answer is...yes. And it isn't that they were machined rougher it's that they were not polished out to the degree that a blued gun was.

In 1970 I bought a blue Model 19. About 1975 I had a documented 10K rounds through the gun only 6..as in one cylinder full, were .38 Special. I don't think there any factory rounds through it either.

It was getting a little loose and living only 45 minutes from the factory brought the gun to be tuned up and refinished to nickel. The gentleman who ran the customer service center was a LONG time employee who I had had a couple previous conversations with over the years before I moved to Texas in 1977. This was before Smith moved the CS area away from the main factory.

When I told the rep that I wanted the gun changed to nickel he told me that it would really shine because blue guns received a lot more surface polishing before being blued because any machine marks would show. Many of the nickel guns I have looked at and owned since bore out what he said.

That came right from a 30+ year employee who built those guns for much of his time at S&W...

Bob

And I have the exception to prove the rules Don's noted here. It's an M&P Target. It's finished in "Bright Blue", and it's as new. It is also the sorriest piece of ******* you have ever seen-----looks fine from a distance. Up close----and looking through the blue (??)----forget about it!! I figured it was an apprentice's very first effort "on the line"---and he was having a bad day. I figured each and every one of the several inspectors Don notes were in a meeting. Oh, and it hasn't been refinished---certainly should have been, but no such luck.

And Don, if you'd like to inspect it, I'm sure we can find a way----and I'll pick up the tab---both ways. I'm also quite prepared to cover any bets about mutually acceptable experts' opinions as to refinishing---any bets---ALL bets.

Ralph Tremaine

During a period in the 1970's throughout the 1990's,rougher models were sent to the nickel tanks.This is what I had been told from the factory gunsmith inquiring why so many rough machining marks were on a particular model 29-3 I had just purchased.

This and what Superman posted bears out, I think, my
experience and also to me the belief that Colt guns
even if to be nickeled received a better polishing than
Smiths.

Remember, Smith to a certain extent was what Ruger is
today in comparison to new Smiths. Ruger has excellent
guns but just not quite as nicely finished as Smiths.

This is my nickel plated 29-2 shipped sometime between 68 and 72.

Attached Images

IMG_0474.jpg (265.5 KB, 31 views)

I have only one nickel plated firearm (currently), a S&W 29-3. Mine shows evidence of a very nice polishing before being plated. No machine marks on the outside. No flaking of the plating either. I would not say that a nickel plated revolver with visible machining marks never left the factory, but I think it would be highly unusual as nickel plating was an extra cost option.

My older m27-2 looks exactly as my new m24, m58, m57 do in nickel. There is a radius tool that machines out the cylinder flutes. It probably used past it’s time to sharpen it.

Talk about shipping stuff out the door crude. My brande new ruger 10/22 in the 70’s had metal hanging off the threaded scope hole where the bolt is inside the receiver. Good thing I took it apart to clean and lube it.

In my new 73 Chevy k10 4x4 pickup the differential bearings woe out. I found maching steel chips inside the housing. I replaced the bearings, posi unit, gears.

I found the right tire on the 4x4 cupping on the outer thread. On the front end machine the front differential is welded 2 degrees off. The dealer says no fix for it. I just stayed rotating the tires. I built CNC machines with accuracy to the millionths and they can’t weld a front differential to specs. The fixture needs to be adjustable so errors can be corrected befor welding. The wimpy independent front axles of today are adjustable.

My point is it’s not just s&w.

My shop tools will never get rusty.

That’s how my old and new nickel plating looks.

The looks and quality of the finish may vary but the function better be spot on right?
I’m thinking they rough milled the flutes in the cylinder then ground them smooth. They probably figured they could skip the grinding process and slow down the feed on the milling cutter. Time is money.

Not polished less in my observation. I agree the one you saw may be refinished over damage.

Does these look rough to you?

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