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Old 05-11-2018, 08:42 PM
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heckinohio heckinohio is offline
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Default Another short notice potential buy........

Local flea mkt today.....looking for tomato plants......found some & a LN M-19-3, 4" .357. $750.......I didnt go for it right away as the seller didnt have the original box nor did he know if they ever came in the blue lined wooden boxes.

So......me & Donna are just now in from a car show & a wake......I have a .22 in a 4" blue lined wooden box w/no paperwork. I have decided to go for the 19 anyway, I have no 19 of any kind & I am guessing it is closer to correct in the wooden box than the blue .22.......or is it....???

Flea mkt at 8am...........but will check this to see if there are any comments..!!!!

PJH
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:52 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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Nobody will believe my next sentence: I am NOT trying to make a spectacle of myself nor start a lynching or even just trying to shock any reader...

I believe in my heart that the Model 19 is absolutely the most OVER RATED Smith & Wesson revolver ever. Jack of all trades -- perhaps, but absolutely the master of none.

If you almost never shoot any .357 but maybe one day you wanna fire 6 rounds... okay, Model 19. If you are a revolver enthusiast and S&W lover, than a 19 is no better than a great Model 10 heavy barrel for tons of .38 and a 19 pales to a sweet Model 14. If you want .357 then any 686 or a 28-2 is miles better than a 19.

I've had two, I moved them onward. My beloved K-frames are .38, .32 and .22 caliber.

These are merely my opinions.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:59 PM
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Nothing wrong with the model 19 as long as you realize you shouldn't fire tons of .357 mag 125 gr loads.

It's a great gun because reality is it's a .38 Spl that can occasionally fire mag ammo. A model 10 or 14 can't do that.

I wouldn't pay $750 for one at a flea market though.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:01 PM
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If it's hanging on your hip for years, that Model 19 feels pretty good.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:36 PM
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I think there were very few that were shipped in wood boxes, some of the very early ones. Most were shipped in cardboard boxes,
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:39 PM
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Sometimes you buy em where you find em. Some times you pay the price if you want em. My 19 came off GB. In my 40 years of accumulating, I've never seen a 19 for sale locally where I was legal to buy.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
If it's hanging on your hip for years, that Model 19 feels pretty good.
A sentiment that I very strongly agree with!
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Nobody will believe my next sentence: I am NOT trying to make a spectacle of myself nor start a lynching or even just trying to shock any reader...

I believe in my heart that the Model 19 is absolutely the most OVER RATED Smith & Wesson revolver ever. Jack of all trades -- perhaps, but absolutely the master of none.

If you almost never shoot any .357 but maybe one day you wanna fire 6 rounds... okay, Model 19. If you are a revolver enthusiast and S&W lover, than a 19 is no better than a great Model 10 heavy barrel for tons of .38 and a 19 pales to a sweet Model 14. If you want .357 then any 686 or a 28-2 is miles better than a 19.

I've had two, I moved them onward. My beloved K-frames are .38, .32 and .22 caliber.

These are merely my opinions.

Which is why I so dearly love the Model 15.

And then the 67 and then the Models 10

and 64.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:23 PM
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My like new nickel 19-3 eats 158 gr 357 mags all day with no issues. Beautiful, great trigger and accurate. I’ll keep it hands down.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:26 PM
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Say what you like, this is one of my most-fired revolvers. I like it a lot and shoot it a lot, even though I'm a big time K-38 owner and shooter and have well over two dozen K frame fixed sight revolvers in my safe.


And before you ask, no, it did not come with those Magna stocks. I just prefer shooting it with them over the original target stocks.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:58 PM
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I’ve shot a bunch of 357 in my Blue one.
Hot handloads and every factory load I could get my hands on.
I’ve also shot a bunch of 38 including some Tracer.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:21 AM
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17x2, 19x2, 66x3, 28x1 and others. . . guess I never really saw the need for a 6" .38 or any .32s.

To each his own. Enjoy 'em!
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:37 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Nobody will believe my next sentence: I am NOT trying to make a spectacle of myself nor start a lynching or even just trying to shock any reader...

I believe in my heart that the Model 19 is absolutely the most OVER RATED Smith & Wesson revolver ever. Jack of all trades -- perhaps, but absolutely the master of none.

If you almost never shoot any .357 but maybe one day you wanna fire 6 rounds... okay, Model 19. If you are a revolver enthusiast and S&W lover, than a 19 is no better than a great Model 10 heavy barrel for tons of .38 and a 19 pales to a sweet Model 14. If you want .357 then any 686 or a 28-2 is miles better than a 19.

I've had two, I moved them onward. My beloved K-frames are .38, .32 and .22 caliber.

These are merely my opinions.
Hey Sevens, don't hold back buddy, tell us how you really feel!

When I "used up" my Model 66 ND to build Project 616, I took the same tack... I had been shooting a bunch of 38 SPL and very few 357 MAGS in it, partly as a function of the primary use (PPC) and partly out of fear that the dreaded cracked forcing cone might appear. It dawned on me that I had a perfectly fine K-38 to play with when I wanted to shoot 38s, so I went on and grabbed a Model 686 ND (6" barrel) for the rare times I want to fire a 357. You know what? It sits in the back of the safe and seldom even sees the light of day, much less gets shot. Actually, I'm thinking of "thinning the herd" and that's probably one of the first ones I'll put on the auction block... it would appear that I really don't need a 357. Anything I can do with my 357 I can do about as well with my 327 Fed Mag. This of course may be just my experience, but that's where I am.

the (Highly Opinionated) Green Frog
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:42 AM
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$750 at a flea market?
That's more like a dealer's price at a gun show.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:56 AM
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Hard pass at that price.

Also agree that it's a carry much, shoot little gun at heart. You want a range gun, find a L or N frame. This is coming from a non old-school LEO, you gentlemen obviously love those 19s and 66s but as shooters I find them to be too light and small.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:58 AM
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I guess I never thought much about it but I don't shoot a lot of magnum level loads in either 357 or 44 caliber ,but I do like having the option if I want to use it.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:14 AM
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My favorite caliber, the 357 Maximum, got killed from bad press and uneducated shooters, not bad design.

I think the Model 19 is in the same category. Every gun has a limit, but I don't believe I can get to the 19's limit in my lifetime. Of course I don't handload light bullets going 1500fps and shoot 10,000 of them. Exceed specs at your own risk. I believe for most shooters, it is a best of breed.
I don't think my 19's have ever seen a 38 special. I have the sweetest little Colt Diamondback for that party that's real purty.


Prescut
I bet that S&W would turn any cracked 19 into a new one at no charge. How do you lose?

Last edited by oddshooter; 05-12-2018 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:43 AM
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Default forcing cone

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddshooter View Post
not bad design.

I bet that S&W would turn any cracked 19 into a new one at no charge. How do you lose?
Relief cutting most of the forcing off because the cylinder does not close otherwise is a great design? Thankfully there are L-frames likely developed for that reason. Love all of my old Smith, do not own a 19 and not planning to. I find $750 entirely out of the reasonable price range for one.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:22 AM
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By the way, one advantage the Model 19 has over the Model 15 or the Model 10 is the extractor rod shroud. It puts a little bit more weight up front (admittedly, the L frames do more in this regard).

It isn't much of a difference, but in my opinion the 19 does balance better as a result. It is one reason I like shooting a 4" Combat Magnum over the 4" Combat Masterpiece or the Military & Police revolvers.
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK View Post
By the way, one advantage the Model 19 has over the Model 15 or the Model 10 is the extractor rod shroud. It puts a little bit more weight up front (admittedly, the L frames do more in this regard).

It isn't much of a difference, but in my opinion the 19 does balance better as a result. It is one reason I like shooting a 4" Combat Magnum over the 4" Combat Masterpiece or the Military & Police revolvers.
Evolving into a weenie, I just can't stand all that extra
weight up front on a Model 19. The Model 19 is a
Johnny come lately effort to attract macho police
officers.

But seriously, folks, I do like the Model 19 but just
like the Model 15 better. After all the 15 is Smith's
"masterpiece."
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:36 PM
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Don't misunderstand me, UncleEd. I like the Combat Masterpiece a lot too. I own several and carried one for two years in SE Asia. They are definitely among my favorite Smiths!
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:45 PM
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I also like the balance of the 19.
Best balance - 4 inch.
Have owned and shot them all.
As I have posted before, I carried mine in SEA.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:47 PM
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$750 for a 4 inch model 19 in Ohio at a flea market is insane. Insane at any other venue in Ohio as well. Wish you'd come around when I have a Smith for sale.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddshooter View Post
My favorite caliber, the 357 Maximum, got killed from bad press and uneducated shooters, not bad design.

I think the Model 19 is in the same category. Every gun has a limit, but I don't believe I can get to the 19's limit in my lifetime. Of course I don't handload light bullets going 1500fps and shoot 10,000 of them. Exceed specs at your own risk. I believe for most shooters, it is a best of breed.
I don't think my 19's have ever seen a 38 special. I have the sweetest little Colt Diamondback for that party that's real purty.


Prescut
I bet that S&W would turn any cracked 19 into a new one at no charge. How do you lose?
Don't count on that. S&W doesn't stock as many older parts like they used to do.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:13 AM
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OK.....here is the final skinney.!!!! I did pass on the 4" nickle 19-3. First you guys let me know that the $750. was, if not an over price, was high end for sure. I had seen & talked to this guy on several occasions in the past. Kinda irritated me that he has no interest in the guns he had, just a profiteer, in my opinion. That doesnt set well, and, besides, I see the M-19 guru several times over the year at the little shows in WVa. He is not only an old hand, but truely a gun enthusiast. 'S'pect he is older than me by 4-5yrs.

I had thought about saving my 4" box for a 57, but I already have two of those, 6 (6.5??) blue & nickle.

What other guns came in the wooden boxes.???

I did buy a Bernadelli .22, a tiny pocket pistol in excellent for $200. from a different guy.......

I tried to post pictures.......the form came up but was gigantic, so big that it was way off my screen to the right....no submit button.

PJH
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WsRsweet View Post
I guess I never thought much about it but I don't shoot a lot of magnum level loads in either 357 or 44 caliber ,but I do like having the option if I want to use it.
I say go for it OP if you've always wanted one. Life is short!

I don't own a Model 19, yet... .357magnum is the only handgun caliber that I don't shoot well. .38Special and +P's, 9mm, 40cal, 45ACP/Super, .44Spec & Mags; I shoot really well. The .357 mag cartridge just isn't for me after 20 years of trying to get it to be. That being said, can an M19 handle a steady diet of .38Speical+P's or not so much??? I would never shoot .357's but it would see a regular diet of .38Special standard pressure and +P's.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:08 AM
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HamHands,

Yup, the Model 19 will handle loads of
.38s and probably a lot of plus Ps.

Practicality, at the price of plus Ps,
you'll probably never shoot more
than a few thousand in your lifetime.

And remember, yup back to my old
them, the Model 15 in .38 only will
serve you well.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:56 PM
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I'll try to be a little more clear what I mean when I claim the Model 19 to be the most overrated S&W revolver of all time.

If you only own one full size revolver and have no desire for more, it's a solid choice. And no, I am not one who believes a 19/66 will self destruct with .357 Magnum ammo, even 110/125 grain.

What I am saying is that if you are a S&W revolver junkie, you really need and would LOVE a 27/28 and/or 586/686 and either/both of these .357's are far more enjoyable and capable of long range days throwing .357 fireballs than any 19/66 will be.

And again, if you are S&W guy with a slew of legendary revolvers... the ubiquitous 10, 15, 14 Masterpiece, the 64 and 67 are incredible platforms for sending tens of thousands of .38 rounds down range.

That makes the 19/66 the "jack of all trades and master of none."

I would much rather own one 4-inch heavy barrel 10 and a 6-inch 28-2 than a pair of Model 19's.

For sure, it is all about what anyone seeks in a revolver and only the buyer can decide, but I'm merely trying to explain why the legendary Model 19 is, in my opinion, over rated.

It occurs to me that S&W also didn't see much genius in a K-frame Magnum either. They got begged, pushed and drawn in to the first Combat Magnum more than two decades after the debut of .357 Magnum.

I definitely agree it was a fantastic idea for all-day duty carry with HEAVY rounds on tap, but as a high round count range gun (what many of us live for) it doesn't do anything as well as K-38's and L&N frame Magnums.

Combat Magnum guys may take offense but that isn't my intention.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:20 PM
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Sevens,

Excellent analysis.

I think part of the mystique of the Model 19
comes from such well-known writers as Bill
Jordan and Skeeter Skelton.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:05 PM
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I'm an N frame guy, mostly 27s and 627s. But, a few years back we stopped into a pawn/gun shop and there was a nice, actually new looking 19 marked at $750 or so. I checked it out and it had a great action that felt new! Couldn't resist and brought it home. It shoots great, but rests in the safe most of the time.
I really like the extractor lug and do not care for K frames without one!
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:49 PM
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I once owned a Model 66 because it was the revolver to aspire to.
Every one that I worked with was envious.
My department mandated that I carry .38 ammo, so I did. I also qualified with my Model 66 with .38 ammo.

Fast Forward to today. I'm walking around a local gun show and I find a 3" barrel Model 65 laying there on the table....wow. I scooped up before anyone else could elbow me out the way. I paid too much and stuck it in my pocket and snuck out the door like a thief in the night.

That was the revolver that I bought. Well, I also bought the story that the seller sold to me. My Model 65 was an Austin Fire Department issue. Often carried, seldom shot.

The first trip to the range validated his story. The spent cases of the warm .357 Magnums would not eject from the cylinder. This revolver has spent it's entire life spitting .38 wadcutters down range.

Lucky me, I guess.
I know I had a heck of a time polishing those holes to get it to cycle .357 Magnums without banging the ejector rod on the bench. I'm still nursing a couple of peeled back fingernails from trying to dig out those empty Magnum cases.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:10 PM
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15, 19, 586 - theyíre all great. Thatís said, Iím with Iggy. If Iím going to bother myself to wear any one of the three, itís going to be a Model 19. Yup, the $750 price is excessive for a 19-3 without its box and papers, IMO. However, if I didnít have one, I might feel differently.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:47 PM
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heckinohio heckinohio is offline
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Gents, my OP & subsequent comment later in this thread should indicate that I can live without a 19, since I didnt have one & this one was available, I figgered....maybe.....but not all that pressing an issue. I said I tried pictures of what I have, no go this morning, I think I might get them on now......... My primary aim is collect.........Donna & I have machineguns & a biggy ammo supply to shoot. While Donnas really likes handguns, doesnt like handgun shooting, stroke-like event took much of her vision & she cant see the sights.

Now..........I would like to put a correct 4" in the spare box I have. I am leaning to a nickle gun....... Is there a nickle 4" 27- nothing or -2.??? Or 57-nothing or -2.??? Would either be correct for the display boxes.??? "Spare" box is the one to the right of the loose pistols on the counter top, pict. 4.

Pictures of what I have, I can list the model #s if needed.

PJH
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  #34  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:44 PM
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That is the going price around here for an P&R "Like New" example. I would of bought it. Non P&R I would pass.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:12 PM
bigmoneylewis bigmoneylewis is offline
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I agree . A like new ,Pinned and recessed 19 is going to be $ 700 minimum,
anywhere in the country . $ 750 sounds right on the money to me.
If you can find one for less, that's the exception and not the normal.
With original box and papers, tools , these go for around $ 850.
If it were nickel, you could ad another 2 bills to that .
As described , "like new" means a gun that's 99 % and probably only had less than 50 rounds fired thru it in the last 40 + years .
Knuckleheads are always inheriting these guns, taking them out , shooting hot rod loads, bulging the cylinders, scratching them up, messing up the screw heads ,taking them apart, putting turn lines on the cylinder, sticking them in holsters, etc. etc.
Finding a 40 plus year old Smith & Wesson that has not been messed with is becoming a more rare sight as each day passes by.
A decent upper end"shooter" grade 90% example of a P & R 19 is $ 600 all day long, so why is it so hard for someone to wrap their mind around the fact that a near mint example would be worth another $ 150 .
I know I sure pay it , and have no second thoughts about it.
And I have a smile on my face when I walk out with it .
Problem is , how often does one get the opportunity to make that happen ...Not very often . Those who think the gun is overpriced are getting confused about the difference in value between a P & R and a non P & R , or have no real insight in the difference between the value of a 90-95 % gun and a 98-99% gun . In the collector world, it is night and day . And they will only get more scarce and valuable as time rolls on .

Lewis
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckinohio View Post
Now..........I would like to put a correct 4" in the spare box I have. I am leaning to a nickle gun....... Is there a nickle 4" 27- nothing or -2.??? Or 57-nothing or -2.??? Would either be correct for the display boxes.??? "Spare" box is the one to the right of the loose pistols on the counter top, pict. 4.
PJH
Is the box about like this one?



I don't know anything about it. It came to me, with a VERY nice Model 57 (no dash) that was wearing Hogues, with a set of K-frame presentation grips in the case. I guess the previous owner got the original grips mixed up. I was sort of disappointed with that at first, but the presentation grips work fine on a Model 18.





Now, I don't know if the gun even came in the box, but it makes a nice set.

At my LGS they recently had a REALLY nice Model 19 in the case, tagged at $750.00. At the same time they had a REALLY nice 66-1, (Virginia State Police 50th anniversary edition) in a wood presentation case tagged at $800.00. Both sold quickly.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:03 AM
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I saw a model 19-3 4" with S&W finger groove combats yesterday in a pawn shop. Nice, just a tiny bit of muzzle wear. Marked $795 Didn't even make an offer. $600-650 maybe
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:53 PM
JohnRippert JohnRippert is offline
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I like the Model 19's heavy barrel and ejector shroud. N frames are too big for my taste and the Model 19 is perfection for me. Which is why I love guys like Sevens, leaves more 19's for me.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:44 PM
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In ‘75 I chose a Python over the m19. That was a time the rumors were the m19’s were shooting themselves apart. Screws coming loose with 357 full house magnum loads. Not too long ago I went with the m28 & m27’s im hooked on n frames.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:52 PM
otis24 otis24 is offline
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I love K frame revolvers.... for firing .38s. I don't know if I will ever fire a lot of .357s or not, but it is nice to know that I can without too much worry.....from the 4 inch 686-3 that I recently obtained. If I needed a K frame size revolver and wanted to fire lots is .357s, I would go with a Ruger Security Six. The great thing about the L frame revolvers is that they kept K frame deminsions in the right areas.
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