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Old 06-27-2018, 07:13 AM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Default M29-2 Cylinder tool marks

Hey, my Name is Julian, I`m from Germany and I recently bought a used M29-2 manufactured in 1976. It is in a very good condition, guess it has not been shot a lot. But there a weird marks in 3 of the cylinder Chambers. The other 3 Chambers are without such marks / grooves. Is this normal for Revolvers from this era?

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Old 06-27-2018, 07:22 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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I don’t see the marks you mention. Maybe you could get a better photo?

Does your revolver function normally? Do empties extract properly from all six chambers?
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:43 AM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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I don’t see the marks you mention. Maybe you could get a better photo?

Does your revolver function normally? Do empties extract properly from all six chambers?

You can see the grooves in the upper two Chambers on the photo. The Revolver does function normally, empty brass is extracted properly. But the other three Chambers look different, they are smoother and do not have any grooves like this.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:05 AM
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I must admit I have not looked in all of the charge holes in my 44 Magnums, but the ones I have looked in are smooth. However, as long as the 44 Magnum functions well I would not worry about it.

Bill
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:15 AM
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I can see what you are talking about but it doesn’t look like anything to be alarmed about. It could just be tool marks. As others have said, if it functions as it should you’re good to go. By the way, Welcome to the forum.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:17 AM
Marshal Kane Marshal Kane is offline
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I see there are faint traces of tool marks left on those charge holes. Usually S&W does a great job of polishing charge holes leaving no tool marks whatsoever. What you see won't effect your revolver at all in terms of operation or accuracy. If this were my gun, I'd just leave it alone and use the it frequently.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:19 AM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Thank you for your reply, guys. Seems to be a great forum here!
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:02 AM
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Welcome to the forum from Pennsylvania!
You made a very good choice picking up a 29-2. I suspect you will enjoy it quite a bit.
As I get older, I enjoy shooting .44 Special loads more and more. I still shoot the magnum loads, but not with the frequency I had in past years.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:38 AM
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Yes I have seen them several times. Just don't shoot a lot of full loads through that 29...
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:29 PM
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OK, since you mentioned the top two chambers I believe I see what is troubling you. It’s impossible to evaluate something like that in photos - unless the defect is really obvious.

If you use U.S.-manufactured 44 Magnum ammunition of around 240-grains (what the gun was designed to use), and it functions normally with that ammunition, I would not be too concerned. I always dislike to openly disagree with another poster, unless the matter concerns my own experience, but I really don’t see the need to stay away from full-power loads in this gun. If it was sticking cases or exhibiting some other malfunction, yes - otherwise, use the gun as intended by the manufacturer. If I had reason to believe it wasn’t safe with normal 44 Magnum ammunition, I’d probably think it could be unsafe to use with anything. Enjoy your new-to-you Model 29!
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:44 PM
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In the 1970s, the film Dirty Harry was pushing the desirability of M29s up. S&W expanded production to keep up with the demand. I have seen several M29s over the years that weren't finished as well as those built before the movie came out.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:36 PM
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My 586 have circular grooves in all six chambers; it looks as it was never polished after boaring. I have mostly shot .38 target loads out of it, but the .357 Magnums have fired and extracted, so I have not bothered with making it pretty!
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:48 PM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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I think that`s the point. Demand grew up and Quality went poor at this time. The photo was taken after I polished the Chambers with a felt, some KG2 boar polish and using a Dremel. Before that it was even worse. I shot 100 rounds 240gr. factory .44 Magnum ammo through it with no issues. I think the Problem is, that Iam a perfectionist Directly after purchase I brought it to a Club30 Gunsmith who refinished the forcing cone. S&W did not file it properly, so that it was uneven causing the cylinder gap beeing to small when hot after 40 rounds or so… I think those issues appear now, because it has not been used the past 42 years. That`s what it Looks like.
Sorry for misspelling, my German is better than my Englisch Here is a photo of the Beauty together with my Coonan Classic.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:08 PM
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Good advice here. Doc is spot on as always. I wouldn't worry about it at all. In the 10,000s of them produced, there is bound to be some manufacturing variances. Yours I would not be concerned with at all and if you really had to get the cosmetics, you could always buy another period cylinder and sell yours.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:54 PM
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I seriously doubt you need to avoid full power ammo because of a few machine marks. Nothing made by Made is perfect because Man is an imperfect being.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:46 AM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Good advice here. Doc is spot on as always. I wouldn't worry about it at all. In the 10,000s of them produced, there is bound to be some manufacturing variances. Yours I would not be concerned with at all and if you really had to get the cosmetics, you could always buy another period cylinder and sell yours.
Buying another cylinder is not that easy in Germany. Don`t know where to get one and if you get one it has to be inspected by the German proof house for guns. CIP states do not accept the US proofmarks… And you have to point out the reasons why you Need another cylinder for your gun to the local Police. Then you get a permittance or not.
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Old 06-29-2018, 12:56 PM
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That's not a safety issue, only an aesthetic one. The one thing you need to stop doing is attempting to correct it yourself with a Dremel. The last thing you want is to adversely effect the chambers tolerances out of your desire for perfection.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:46 PM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Quote:
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That's not a safety issue, only an aesthetic one. The one thing you need to stop doing is attempting to correct it yourself with a Dremel. The last thing you want is to adversely effect the chambers tolerances out of your desire for perfection.
Yeah you are right but i did only use a felt together with some KG2 bore polish rotating at lowest Speed to smoothen it out. Nothing really abrasive. I would not start honing it or something like that. I think it got to live with it and Keep on Shooting it as it is.
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:08 PM
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@ the OP, I stand corrected. All things being equal, I would not worry about it. Like Doc said, if it functions you are good.
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:57 PM
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Grüss Gott, Julian, and welcome to the best gun forum on the internet. You certainly have no need to apologize for your English, it's excellent.

Enjoy that fine revolver.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:10 PM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Grüss Gott, Julian, and welcome to the best gun forum on the internet. You certainly have no need to apologize for your English, it's excellent.

Enjoy that fine revolver.
Grüß Gott shouldazagged (the bavarians are used to say that, but Iam from northrhine westfalia wich is a federal state in the west of Germany - we drink less beer, do not wear any Lederhosen, and are used to say "Mahlzeit" or "Guten Tag" for welcome ) and thank you very much! I really enjoy my M29-2. Always wanted to have one. Good ones are hard to find in here and the prices for them are rising.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
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Good ones are hard to find in here and the prices for them are rising.
I think they are getting harder to find everywhere and the prices are rising everywhere too, Even here in the US.
ENJOY
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:11 AM
DrGonzo83 DrGonzo83 is offline
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Returned it to the dealer now. It`s a pity, but cases didn`t extract reliably when using heavier magnum ammo. Got my money back, and searching for a new one now. Which .44 revolver would you guys prefer for weekly use, shooting factory 240gr loads?
Had an freedom arms m83 in the past, but the SAA style grip was not my friend. Despite that it was a great gun. I do like the 629. What About the new ones? I think it is 629-6?
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:03 AM
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Wow. I'm surprised. Those tools marks are not mistakes !

When you get serious. You buy pin gauges to measure your cylinders. Pin gauges tell you immediately that the cylinder diameter is different at each end.
The diameter of the brass is larger than the bullet diameter (obvious). The cylinder must account for this by narrowing at the exit hole.
The brass must fit in the cylinder so that it doesn't split when fired. Poorly constructed bulged brass not fitting is the first time many shooters notice that size matters.

At the other end, the exit hole (chambers, throats)of the cylinder is machined to ensure the bullet doesn't wobble. It can be too tight or too loose. Too tight and you swage your bullet down to where it may allow gas to escape and lead the barrel. Too loose and your accuracy sucks. Tight can be fixed. Loose can not.

I've seen several over the years where someone wanted to make the cylinder the same shiny through out. They polished it until they lost the tightening at the exit hole. They lost their accuracy forever with that cylinder.

Handloaders use pin gauges to measure and select the correct size bullet for the cylinder exit hole and the barrel groove diameters.

Prescut
Difficult extraction of brass can occur when the cylinder size allows the brass to expand when fired; Goes in easy, comes out tough. Difficult extraction for a handloader can mean that the load is too hot.

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Old 07-11-2018, 04:19 PM
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Those tool marks are just that, formed when the reamer cut the chamber and the bullet lead (throat) all in one pass. Done on CNC machinery with reamers that are used a certain number of times before being resharpened, and then tossed after so many resharpenings (or so that's the way it's supposed to go).
Factorys & piece-work being what they are, that doesn't always happen that way though.

Tool marks themselves are just the result of the machining process used to cut or form the metal in the way you wish to. The higher polished the cutting edge on the tool, the better the finish on the part. A mirror finish can be machined into a part if needed.

Deep tool marks can occur from a poorly sharpened/dull reamer, metal chips stuck to the reamer scoring the surface as it cuts, and poor lubrication of the process as it's being done.

Wrong feed & speed for the matr'l will also induce them but that's all supposed to be worked out on modern equipment. We're not talking hand work chambering jobs here on a Clausing.

Any after polish of the chamber is little to none. A quick burnishing is all that's done to slick up the surfaces and remove any micro burrs clinging to the surfaces. These aren't Bowen Classics they built.
That's about all that's done in production line work.

Where those tool marks are is where the bullet of a loaded cartridge sets,, in the throat.
They'll never interfere with the extraction of a fired case as the bullet is long gone and the case itself never enters that area.

That forward area can be too large in dia many times effecting accuracy, or even too small, but it won't have much to do with the extraction of a fired caseing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:32 PM
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Well, that’s too bad but if you’re not happy with then you will never enjoy shooting it. Hope you find another one soon or maybe luck into a nice 629 instead.
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