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Old 07-02-2018, 12:07 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Default Movie jaws Smith and Wesson revolver question

Most of us knows that in said movie, Chief Brody is using a Smith and Wesson model 15 with target grips. However what a lot of us may not be aware of is that that gun apparently was giving actor Roy Schider problems.

If you go to the bonus features and look at the outtakes and deleted scenes, there is an outtake that has Roy Scheider trying to fire the revolver presumably at the shark a scene in the movie and constantly having “gun jams”. So frustrated he gets that on the third try he lets out a word that I can’t use on this form and would rather not use in public .

I watch that clip and I’m trying to figure out what’s going on with the gun. The cylinder seems to rotate and all but what is it it’s a revolver it’s a simple device. Is it a misfire or what?
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Old 07-02-2018, 12:50 PM
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I thought it was a Model 28 but could be wrong. Makes me wonder if the actor had any coaching on how to handle the gun, but a revolver should have been pretty simple.
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Old 07-02-2018, 02:15 PM
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Was it a locked model???
just kidding...couldn't resist
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Old 07-02-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
.....
If you go to the bonus features and look at the outtakes and deleted scenes, there is an outtake that has Roy Scheider trying to fire the revolver ....

I watch that clip and I’m trying to figure out what’s going on with the gun. The cylinder seems to rotate and all but what is it it’s a revolver it’s a simple device. Is it a misfire or what?
Unless you show us the clip, we can’t really know what you’re talking about.

Movie producers, especially on gun-heavy productions, have gotten pretty good at hiring specialty armorers to provide the appropriate hardware.

Back then not so much. It was a major achievement if the actors ended up using the same gun throughout a movie. It could be something as simple as some ill-fitting blank cartridges jamming up the action.
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Old 07-02-2018, 02:30 PM
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Model 15 and yes it gave him trouble.
Jaws - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
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Old 07-02-2018, 02:55 PM
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Cool "Jaws" factoid on that model 15.
I can (& do) watch parts of that movie whenever I see it on. Good flick!
Guess the reliability is directly related to the armorer on set. Shooting movie effect blanks probably makes guns absolutely filthy.
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:01 PM
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Okay, here it is. Right at the beginning.

It’s obviously jammed up and the trigger is not properly pulling through. On the first three tries the cylinder does not move at all, and only partially on the last one.

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Old 07-02-2018, 03:04 PM
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Yeti is probably correct.

The gun no doubt was foul with
use of blanks, lack of proper care
and it being around all that salt
water. Who knows if that gun
didn't take a spray bath more than
once before use.

Prop guns are often in poor shape
as they are passed from movie to
prop house to movie, especially back
in the first Jaws days.
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Unless you show us the clip, we can’t really know what you’re talking about.

Movie producers, especially on gun-heavy productions, have gotten pretty good at hiring specialty armorers to provide the appropriate hardware.

Back then not so much. It was a major achievement if the actors ended up using the same gun throughout a movie. It could be something as simple as some ill-fitting blank cartridges jamming up the action.
Here it is. Go to 12:10 and watch from there.
Deleted Scenes - Jaws Featurette - YouTube
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:27 PM
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My Navy- Guadalcanal - Carrier Pilot Buddy Frank told me that he only took enough Cosmoline off his Victory Model to so he could see Down the barrel and the cylinder would turn and lock.
Cause if he went down, and he did, it would be in the water.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:53 PM
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I like how Richard Dreyfus’s character said to Brody “Brody, what are you doing?” As Brody grabbed the M1 Garand to shoot the shark. That .30-06 would have blown a huge hole in that shark and ended the fight.

And then in Jaws 2, Brody is in the watchtower and sees what he thinks is the shark. He empties his Model 15 at what he though was the shark while standing on the shore at about 30 yards.

Hollywood Weapons did a recreation of the scuba tank blowing up the shark. M1 Garand round to a scuba tank on full size replica of shark and it but hissed air.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM View Post
My Navy- Guadalcanal - Carrier Pilot Buddy Frank told me that he only took enough Cosmoline off his Victory Model to so he could see Down the barrel and the cylinder would turn and lock.
Cause if he went down, and he did, it would be in the water.
Many pilots and invasion troops used plastic or rubber envelopes for their guns to avoid getting them wet. I think it was Paladin who posted some pics here of them. But I've seen those in use in period photos.

Did S&W even ship Victory Models packed in cosmoline? Seems unlikely.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:00 PM
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Blanks and salt water can really screw a gun up that much? You'd think somebody would think to at least make a cursory wipe it down occasionally or at least when you pick it up to handle it.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:21 PM
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I'm guessing the ejector rod was loose and backed off enough to keep the cylinder from turning. Either that or the cylinder gap was filled with gunk (or, as others have said, sea related corrosion) and binding up.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:31 PM
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Don't know what happened in this movie, but can offer a possible reason. I am an old west re-enactor and I see and shoot a lot of blank cartridges. Some of the guns in our group, no matter what we do with them, have enough head space that we cannot prevent primers from backing out. When the primer backs out the guns will tie up every time.

Dan
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:40 PM
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A loose ejector rod tends to impede opening the cylinder, but not freeze the cylinder movability to the point where the trigger won’t even budge as it looks here. A backed-out primer or gunk in the mechanism itself is a more likely suspect.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:44 PM
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Funny how he's holding his wrist with the left hand, instead of the gun! NOT a gun guy...
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:12 PM
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“Jaws” is on now on AMC on Direct Tv. Brody just got on the boat to head out. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:43 PM
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cylinder hand spring broken or installed wrong, thus cylinder would not turn
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W Fan View Post
“Jaws” is on now on AMC on Direct Tv. Brody just got on the boat to head out. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.
You’re gonna need a bigger boat.👍

In this movie he appears to be wearing a gunbelt with dump pouches and a Jordan holster. In the sequel Jaws 2, he appars to be wearing speedloaders with a swival holster. His speedloaders are holding Remington 125 gr scalloped SJHP which he modifies by dropping poison into the hollow cavities and sealing them with wax (hiding that fact from his subordinate).

First one is great summer blockbuster classic. Second is fun. The rest are stupid. Looks like they are about to release another sequel or remake called Megoladon. 😫

Anyway, you’d think that as expensive as guns and shooting scenes are Hollywood would have an armorer that took care of it’s prop guns for just this reason
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
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Funny how he's holding his wrist with the left hand, instead of the gun! NOT a gun guy...
I agree.
Was watching old movies the other day and I think it was magnum force where DH was holding the same way while on the range, so maybe more for dramatic effect than marksmanship???
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:03 PM
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I've read that most actors know so little about guns that they aren't handed one until just before a scene is shot. This is for safety and to keep them from damaging a gun.

Others are sent for a basic course at some place like Gunsite, but only if a role demands more expertise. In the 1950's, some cowboy actors were coached by Arvo Ojala. I read that some playing SEALS in the movie about Marcus Luttrell were taught by real Navy personnel.

Now, with Hollywood being so anti-gun, I doubt we'll see many actors being gun savvy in real life. The days of Clark Gable, Maj. Audie Murphy, MH and Jimmy Stewart are past, I guess.

When I saw the final movie of the Fifty Shades trilogy, I was surprised that Anastasia (Dakota Johnson) even knew how to operate that S&W Model 36 that her man's nut former lover had left in his office when she was arrested for her home invasion. She did hit her former boss, Jack (the kidnapper), but only in the leg. But a real Anastasia would do well to manage that.

I was on the Official New Line Cinema board about, The Lost World. I learned that the prop guns were subbed for in scenes when they weren't fired by resin or plastic cast replicas. When Lord Roxton dropped his .416 Rigby on a cave floor, not only did actor Will Snow drop it from too high instead of just laying it down, you could hear the sound it made on the cave floor. Def. the replica rifle! No wonder they didn't trust Snow with the real one when they didn't have to.

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Old 07-06-2018, 11:27 PM
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OMG....Mine must have been on that movie set.
Salt Life issues.

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Old 07-07-2018, 02:45 AM
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My only 2 revolver failures ever!

S&W 629, very cheap factory reload ammo, projectile moved forward in it's case locking up the cylinder, could not rotate or open cylinder, complete failure to function, pushed pushed bullet back into case, fired round, functioned perfectly after that.

Colt Trooper MK3, when I cleaned it I used grease on where the cylinder rotates on the crane, after 50 rounds of .38 special dirty range ammo, it would not rotate in double or single action without manually rotating the cylinder, and that eventually quit working, locked up solid. Cleaned it & oiled it, worked flawlessly.

Don't use grease on rotating parts, and Dont carry re-loads, unless you trust your own re-loads.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
Anyway, you’d think that as expensive as guns and shooting scenes are Hollywood would have an armorer that took care of it’s prop guns for just this reason
They do!
Prop Firearms | The Specialists LTD
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
I've read that most actors know so little about guns that they aren't handed one until just before a scene is shot. This is for safety and to keep them from damaging a gun.

Others are sent for a basic course at some place like Gunsite, but only if a role demands more expertise. In the 1950's, some cowboy actors were coached by Arvo Ojala. I read that some playing SEALS in the movie about Marcus Luttrell were taught by real Navy personnel.

Now, with Hollywood being so anti-gun, I doubt we'll see many actors being gun savvy in real life. The days of Clark Gable, Maj. Audie Murphy, MH and Jimmy Stewart are past, I guess.

When I saw the final movie of the Fifty Shades trilogy, I was surprised that Anastasia (Dakota Johnson) even knew how to operate that S&W Model 36 that her man's nut former lover had left in his office when she was arrested for her home invasion. She did hit her former boss, Jack (the kidnapper), but only in the leg. But a real Anastasia would do well to manage that.

I was on the Official New Line Cinema board about, The Lost World. I learned that the prop guns were subbed for in scenes when they weren't fired by resin or plastic cast replicas. When Lord Roxton dropped his .416 Rigby on a cave floor, not only did actor Will Snow drop it from too high instead of just laying it down, you could hear the sound it made on the cave floor. Def. the replica rifle! No wonder they didn't trust Snow with the real one when they didn't have to.
I read the book.There was something in there about one of her relations, Father, Uncle maybe, teaching her about guns and shooting and she was surprised that her dominator, lover, fiancé, boyfriend was so scared of a simple tool.
I guess that part did not translate to the movie.

And look, just so's ya'll will know. I had heard about the books, like everyone else, but did not intend to read it. But I found out my ex gave a copy to my daughter and she read it. Doesn't matter that she was over 20 at the time. I wanted to know what was in it.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
Funny how he's holding his wrist with the left hand, instead of the gun! NOT a gun guy...
If you look at some of the scenes in Dirty Harry and some of the promotional materials you see Clint Eastwood doing the same thing. Ideas on what’s the best way to hold and shoot a handgun change and fad tacticool techniques come and go.
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 AM
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I read the book.There was something in there about one of her relations, Father, Uncle maybe, teaching her about guns and shooting and she was surprised that her dominator, lover, fiancé, boyfriend was so scared of a simple tool.
I guess that part did not translate to the movie.

And look, just so's ya'll will know. I had heard about the books, like everyone else, but did not intend to read it. But I found out my ex gave a copy to my daughter and she read it. Doesn't matter that she was over 20 at the time. I wanted to know what was in it.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Presumably, you're referring to the Fifty Shades of Grey books. Doesn't seem as if you're referencing what I wrote about the Lost World prop guns.

Actually, I haven't read the books. I know a girl Online who said they're greatly overhyped and not as naughty as inferred. So, I didn't know that Christian Grey had an aversion to guns. He never wore one in the three movies, but has armed bodyguards: Taylor and that other couple in the third film... As a billionaire, he had cause for security.

Because I haven't read the books, I didn't know that Ana knew anything about guns. She was a recent college grad living in Seattle, a liberal city, and all her friends seemed liberal and non-gun people. And the author is English! So, I'm pleased and surprised that an uncle, etc. taught Ana.

The movies are very impressive. They have a good cast, directors,etc., and ample budgets, and the stars had enormous chemistry, on and off screen. Even Jamie Dornan's wife seems to like Dakota. The scenery is magnificent,and I loved the aircraft sequences.

Many women LOVE those books and films. The one with whom I watched the DVD's gushed profusely about them. I should point out that she's more my daughter's age than are most on this board. Actually, she's a few years younger than my daughter, who hasn't shown any interest in the series.
I think I understand the appeal of the stories, especially to women. I've read a couple of books by female psychiatrists about women's fantasies and see where that appeal is coming from. I'd better not say more on this board.

I am pleased that the author has enjoyed her terrific success. I think she sold more of those books than the other woman author did of her Harry Potter series. Both had astronomical success.

The author supposedly got her start on FanFiction.net, the big site for aspiring authors. There are some very good writers there, but the overall standard is low. My own short stories, based on a couple of TV shows, taught me to write fiction, very different from writing magazine articles, of which I already had ample experience. I have heard from several ladies that the Shades writing is not especially good. It is the theme, the adventurous romance between Christian and Anastasia, that made the books so successful. Many women are bored by their love lives. I can tell you, the films are quite well made, with excellent casts and settings. If you liked the books, you'll probably be very pleased with all three films. You can see many interviews with the stars and film clips on YouTube.

The girl with whom I saw the films at home kept gushing about how wonderful and emotional they were.
And they have certainly been enormous commercial successes. I'd have changed a few minor details, mainly in regard to a couple of Ana's outfits, and I'd have shown the bodyguards' weapons, discretely for the most part. These aren't action movies, with a lot of gunplay.

You said a male relative taught Ana to shoot. That reminds me of Suzanne Arruda's books about an American girl in Kenya in the 1920's. She learned to shoot on her father's New Mexico ranch. Besides her rifle, she wore a hunting knife made by a ranch hand, in her boot. I picture it as a copy of Marble's Ideal model, with five-inch blade.

I met Prof. Arruda at a book signing and offered some advice on suitable guns. A college peer was giving her some miserable advice in the earlier books of that series. I gave her a spare copy of John Taylor's, "African Rifles and Cartridges" that she found very helpful. And the author credited me as an advisor in later books. That feels pretty good!

Anyway, in the last two, Fifty Shades books, look at that gun. It's a S&W M-36, the usual blued snub version. Could be a M-37, as the only difference is the light alloy frame vs. steel. I couldn't tell which auto the female bodyguard had in the scene where Jack was caught in the Greys' home.

For what it's worth, Dakota's dad, Don Johnson, has used some interesting guns in his roles, like "Miami Vice." He told an inviewer that he probably won't see Dakota's movies in that series, as he's read, "Story of O" and that's all he needed to know about such plots. I've read that book and seen the film, and he's generalizing too much. There are definite differences between Christian Grey, who married Ana, and the cynical, self possessed Sir Stephen of Pauline Reage's book. The latter, BTW, strikes me as being quite French in its outlook. I hope that Patvince and any other French members won't see that as a negative comment. It's just a cultural observation.

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Old Yesterday, 06:46 AM
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Presumably, you're referring to the Fifty Shades of Grey books. Doesn't seem as if you're referencing what I wrote about the Lost World prop guns.

Actually, I haven't read the books. I know a girl Online who said they're greatly overhyped and not as naughty as inferred. So, I didn't know that Christian Grey had an aversion to guns. He never wore one in the three movies, but has armed bodyguards: Taylor and that other couple in the third film... As a billionaire, he had cause for security.

Because I haven't read the books, I didn't know that Ana knew anything about guns. She was a recent college grad living in Seattle, a liberal city, and all her friends seemed liberal and non-gun people. And the author is English! So, I'm pleased and surprised that an uncle, etc. taught Ana.

The movies are very impressive. They have a good cast, directors,etc., and ample budgets, and the stars had enormous chemistry, on and off screen. Even Jamie Dornan's wife seems to like Dakota. The scenery is magnificent,and I loved the aircraft sequences.

Many women LOVE those books and films. The one with whom I watched the DVD's gushed profusely about them. I should point out that she's more my daughter's age than are most on this board. Actually, she's a few years younger than my daughter, who hasn't shown any interest in the series.
I think I understand the appeal of the stories, especially to women. I've read a couple of books by female psychiatrists about women's fantasies and see where that appeal is coming from. I'd better not say more on this board.

I am pleased that the author has enjoyed her terrific success. I think she sold more of those books than the other woman author did of her Harry Potter series. Both had astronomical success.

The author supposedly got her start on FanFiction.net, the big site for aspiring authors. There are some very good writers there, but the overall standard is low. My own short stories, based on a couple of TV shows, taught me to write fiction, very different from writing magazine articles, of which I already had ample experience. I have heard from several ladies that the Shades writing is not especially good. It is the theme, the adventurous romance between Christian and Anastasia, that made the books so successful. Many women are bored by their love lives. I can tell you, the films are quite well made, with excellent casts and settings. If you liked the books, you'll probably be very pleased with all three films. You can see many interviews with the stars and film clips on YouTube.

The girl with whom I saw the films at home kept gushing about how wonderful and emotional they were.
And they have certainly been enormous commercial successes. I'd have changed a few minor details, mainly in regard to a couple of Ana's outfits, and I'd have shown the bodyguards' weapons, discretely for the most part. These aren't action movies, with a lot of gunplay.

You said a male relative taught Ana to shoot. That reminds me of Suzanne Arruda's books about an American girl in Kenya in the 1920's. She learned to shoot on her father's New Mexico ranch. Besides her rifle, she wore a hunting knife made by a ranch hand, in her boot. I picture it as a copy of Marble's Ideal model, with five-inch blade.

I met Prof. Arruda at a book signing and offered some advice on suitable guns. A college peer was giving her some miserable advice in the earlier books of that series. I gave her a spare copy of John Taylor's, "African Rifles and Cartridges" that she found very helpful. And the author credited me as an advisor in later books. That feels pretty good!

Anyway, in the last two, Fifty Shades books, look at that gun. It's a S&W M-36, the usual blued snub version. Could be a M-37, as the only difference is the light alloy frame vs. steel. I couldn't tell which auto the female bodyguard had in the scene where Jack was caught in the Greys' home.

For what it's worth, Dakota's dad, Don Johnson, has used some interesting guns in his roles, like "Miami Vice." He told an inviewer that he probably won't see Dakota's movies in that series, as he's read, "Story of O" and that's all he needed to know about such plots. I've read that book and seen the film, and he's generalizing too much. There are definite differences between Christian Grey, who married Ana, and the cynical, self possessed Sir Stephen of Pauline Reage's book. The latter, BTW, strikes me as being quite French in its outlook. I hope that Patvince and any other French members won't see that as a negative comment. It's just a cultural observation.
I’m sure don Johnson isn’t watching the movies because he doesn’t want to see his daughter naked and being submissive to some dude. As a father of a daughter, I don’t blame him.
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Old Yesterday, 03:53 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
I’m sure don Johnson isn’t watching the movies because he doesn’t want to see his daughter naked and being submissive to some dude. As a father of a daughter, I don’t blame him.
Oh, sure. That's definitely the impression he gave in that interview.

But Marisa Miller said that her dad gets extra copies of magazines in which she's posed, inc. the, Sports Ill. issue in which she wore just a cell phone or small transistor radio. He's very proud of her.

I'm a little relieved that my daughter chose not to model or become an actress. I think that's the prevailing attitude among fathers.

Back in 1992, when Sharon Stone became famous for just one scene in a particular movie, I wondered how her dad felt. But actresses sometimes take notorious roles to become household names and get major roles.

I respect Dakota Johnson, as both a person and an actress. She seems a nice person. And for Hollywood, she isn't radically irritating as many other actresses are. BTW, her character achieved parity with Grey in the series and they married. She reformed his kinky ways. One reason why so many women like the series is that it's basically a poor girl catches a rich man theme. Sort of like, Pretty Woman in that aspect.

But I understand your view. Dads of actresses and models must need more tolerance than most fathers have.

Last edited by Texas Star; Yesterday at 04:34 PM.
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