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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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Old 07-14-2018, 08:28 AM
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OK, if you haven't been following along on the 1896-1961 Forum, I have been recreating a K-32 since I couldn't afford a real one. A kind fellow member provided the critical component, the original barrel, and the rest was a pretty straightforward if time consuming process.

The barrel was a late style, never installed NOS example with only one unusual feature... the factory forged front sight was a Baughman ramp style rather than the expected Patridge type. Since it was such a late barrel, I decided to go with a Model 14-3 to be in the spirit of the Model 16-3s that were sometimes factory built from them. I found a suitable 14-3 whose faults were listed as blue wear on the cylinder and barrel, which I was going to change out anyway. Finally, a K-22 cylinder was located in my chowder box to be rebored to 32 S&W Long and serve as the last piece of the puzzle.

I took all parts along with my plans for what I wanted done to David Sams, a gunsmith with national reputation but who had never done this particular type of conversion. We discussed what I wanted done and other details, and I settled down to wait. He estimated 8-12 months, and in 8 months and 5 days it was ready for me to pick up. The work seems impeccable, accuracy seems good so far, and the price for the work, while a bit over budget, still was reasonable.

Below, find an iPad picture of the finished gun. Note that I just stuck a set of beater stocks on it to be on and off during the work... they will be replaced today! I'll hopefully get to the indoor range today and test it further for accuracy and get back on tonight to report further.

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Old 07-14-2018, 08:40 AM
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Good deal froggie I'm glad your project finally came to fruition .May the Gods of accuracy smile on your range trip ,looking forward to the report.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:11 AM
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Looks good, Froggie! Now if I could just find a barrel I could get my .32 Masterpiece looking good again.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:15 AM
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That came out looking extremely nice, GF. Now you know we will need a range report and after pictures when you get your replacement stocks on that fine gun.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:44 AM
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Looking good and I am interested how it shoots. The 32 S&W Long is an easy cartridge to reload and is inherently accurate.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:15 AM
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Very nice Froggie.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:52 AM
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Frogie, that is one beautiful revolver! I'll be waiting for better pictures and a complete range report soon. Umm, better yet I'd love to run down the road to Richmond & help you get it sighted in!!
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:05 AM
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That really looks great Froggie! Like the rest of the above posters, I'm impatiently waiting on more photos, and a full range report!
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:59 AM
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Nice gun, and the 32 S&W is a great little round.

I have played with the idea of making one. I would have done as you did and started with 14 or 15 frame. Big, problem is the barrel, K32 barrels make hen's teeth look common. Now days it seems that finding anyone who can or will bore a K22 barrel to 32 is not much easier than finding a barrel. One could turn down a blank and thread it to fit a K frame, then turn the part forward of the frame down to say .0463. Then cut the barrel extension off a model 14 barrel and drill and ream the part forward of the frame to .04625 (13/32). Then Warm up the "shroud" piece and cool the barrel liner and assemble for a shrink fit. K22 cylinders show up for sale, but usually the sellers are pretty proud of them. I have a K22 cylinder in my parts pile and Have been playing with the idea of getting a shooter grade 32-20 and milling it for adjustable sights, Making a nice rib, ramp and sight to silver solder on the barrel, reaming and fitting the K22 cylinder and have a convertible.

I finally just bought a 16-4. But, making one still rattles around in my head.

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Old 07-14-2018, 01:29 PM
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Steelslaver,

David Sams, the gunsmith who just built my K-32 homage said it would have been about the same amount of work to make the barrel from a blank, since he does that all the time for the PPC revolvers he builds. If I hadn't had this barrel "fall in my lap" and if I still wanted a 32 S&W Long revolver on a K-frame, I think that's what I would have done. BTW, Jebus35745 had Andy Horvath build this type of gun for him a couple of years ago and seems to really like it.

I'm not sure I would spend a whole lot of time searching for a cylinder if Hamilton Bowen has gotten his back in production, he made blanks with the chambers just drilled as pilot holes. Again, if it weren't an homage like I was attempting, I wouldn't waste much time and effort chasing an either original K-22 cylinder or barrel to rebore since it wouldn't be original anyway.

Froggie
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:52 PM
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Looks great, GF. I know the two of you will be very happy together!


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Old 07-14-2018, 10:00 PM
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Went to the local indoor range (25 yards) just before closing time today and was able to get in a quick half hour trigger time. Not optimal, but life keeps getting in the way! Regardless, I trekked in with a half a box of Georgia Arms JHPs, about the same number of Winchester Super X round nose factory ammo of indeterminate age, and most of a box of my standard reloads of 2.5 grains of Bullseye behind a Hornady 90 grain swaged lead SWC. Everything shot to just about the same POI at the 7.5 and 25 yd ranges I tried. Shooting one handed, bullseye style I shot about to the level I've ever shot with a revolver of late (amazing how rusty one can get in a short decade or two of laziness!) Anyway, I've got a box of 400 HBWCs and almost that many SWCs (both the discontinued swaged Hornady 90 grainers) so I'll load up a goodly supply of both and knock that rust off! The gun is as much like the original as it could possibly be and I'm very pleased with it. My cell phone camera is charging, so I'll put some pix in later.

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Old 07-15-2018, 10:38 AM
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Froggie, a big congrats on another desirous completed project. Shoot it in good health.

Stu
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
I'm not sure I would spend a whole lot of time searching for a cylinder if Hamilton Bowen has gotten his back in production, he made blanks with the chambers just drilled as pilot holes. Again, if it weren't an homage like I was attempting, I wouldn't waste much time and effort chasing an either original K-22 cylinder or barrel to rebore since it wouldn't be original anyway.
Froggie
Mr. Bowen’s cylinder blanks probably shouldn’t be “wasted” on a project like this, since they are Jet-length and thus highly specialized in terms of their potential and limited supply. A K22/M17 cylinder makes a lot more sense for a .32 SWL conversion, or .32 Magnum, for that matter. That said, without any intention at all to step on Mr. Bowen’s toes - and potential sales! - if you want to build a .327 or a hot-rod .32-20, those cylinders come into their own.

Congratulations on your new K32 knockoff and good luck with it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Mr. Bowen’s cylinder blanks probably shouldn’t be “wasted” on a project like this, since they are Jet-length and thus highly specialized in terms of their potential and limited supply. A K22/M17 cylinder makes a lot more sense for a .32 SWL conversion, or .32 Magnum, for that matter. That said, without any intention at all to step on Mr. Bowen’s toes - and potential sales! - if you want to build a .327 or a hot-rod .32-20, those cylinders come into their own.

Congratulations on your new K32 knockoff and good luck with it.
Thanks for the congrats. The problem with using one of the (dwindling number of) Model 17 or similar factory cylinders is that one of the “improvements” was to change the shape of the extractor from the traditional round to a sort of rectangular shape. This made the conversion that much more complicated when Andy Horvath did my Project 616... so it cost more and took longer. It’s a lot easier to start from a blank than to UN-do somebody elsa’s Bright ideas. No, on a custom-built project, such as these, there is a big advantage in starting fresh... and if the cylinder is too long, that’s not a problem... it just makes it easier to get minimum BC gap.

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Old 07-15-2018, 02:04 PM
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...looks good...Patridge front sight would be nice...but maybe that's just me...

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Old 07-15-2018, 02:43 PM
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Well done!
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:43 PM
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Neat project, turned out great.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:23 PM
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Nicely done

Robert
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:41 PM
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Looks good GF, looks like a nice reblue on it. Some brighter pics would show us the great job he did. Glad this project finally came together for you, you been eyeing it for a while. When Andy finished mine, I used a B-square scope mount on it and benched it to see how it shot. If you want, I can send you one to use, just need to remove the rear sight. Just return when done. I started shooting mine again to enjoy what I had made. The.32’s are fun. Enjoy the gun, Larry
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
Thanks for the congrats. The problem with using one of the (dwindling number of) Model 17 or similar factory cylinders is that one of the “improvements” was to change the shape of the extractor from the traditional round to a sort of rectangular shape. This made the conversion that much more complicated when Andy Horvath did my Project 616... so it cost more and took longer. It’s a lot easier to start from a blank than to UN-do somebody elsa’s Bright ideas. No, on a custom-built project, such as these, there is a big advantage in starting fresh... and if the cylinder is too long, that’s not a problem... it just makes it easier to get minimum BC gap.

Froggie
I don't quite understand. Are you talking about one of the new style ejector stars?? I can't see how the engagement of the star to the cylinder itself can effect reaming to a new chamber. I can see where converting one type star to a cylinder of the other type would be a pain though.

I have a spare K22 cylinder and one I reamed to 22TCM and played with for a while using it in a K frame I made into a 22 Harvey K Chuck. Both of them have the old style pinned stars.

If I was to take one of them to 32 S&W I would lock down the extractor with a stub ejector rod I for that. Use a spud to line up old chamber, drill to say 9/32 then use a chucking reamer to take old chamber to .3125 (5/16) them run in either a 32 S&W long or 327 mag reamer. The star would become one for a 32 and match the cylinder.

A blank N frame cylinder could be used to do something I have been dreaming of. Use 30-30 cases to make a shorter 30 Herret type round with an OAL of 1.610. Kind of a big brother to my 22 Jet. LOL

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:49 AM
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Well Froggie, you did it once again! Congrats.

How about a photo spread showing the specific work that needed to be done. Sounds like:

Re-chamber the cyl,
fit it to the frame,
mount the barrel and set bar/cyl gap,
re-blue.
Oh and over stamp the 4 in the model # with a 6 on the yoke.

How about a photo of both projects together.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:54 PM
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Emailed Bowen and got a quick, friendly and informative reply. oesn't sound like he has any "blank" K frame cylinders at this time and has never had any or heard of any for an N frame.

I guess I will have to get some 4140 round stock and give it a shot. Weee. The odd hole for the star shaft is the biggest problem. But I have a plan for that. Have a heat treat oven lathe and mill.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:54 AM
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Hondo44, no photos available of work in progress, but here are the two finished products. Project 616 is wearing a pair of dark wood (ebony?) grips from Thailand, which with age have apparently shrunk away from the steel a bit and need a little adjusting. They feel great in my hand though.

BTW, I must have left a wrong impression... only the cylinder and the rear sight of the K-32 were reblued. The barrel was NOS and the frame didn’t need it. The cylinder came out just a tiny bit darker, but not as much as the iPad picture makes it seem. Most people probably wouldn’t notice it without being told.

The recreated Model 16-4 has on a pair of grips made for me by Schofieldkid81 several years ago. I put them on another Masterpiece for testing then saved them for something appropriate. They were themselves a homage... to the old Fitz grips which were sometimes made in wood. I have an original set around here somewhere, but a homage on a homage just seemed “right.”

Froggie
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
I don't quite understand. Are you talking about one of the new style ejector stars?? I can't see how the engagement of the star to the cylinder itself can effect reaming to a new chamber. I can see where converting one type star to a cylinder of the other type would be a pain though.

I have a spare K22 cylinder and one I reamed to 22TCM and played with for a while using it in a K frame I made into a 22 Harvey K Chuck. Both of them have the old style pinned stars.

If I was to take one of them to 32 S&W I would lock down the extractor with a stub ejector rod I for that. Use a spud to line up old chamber, drill to say 9/32 then use a chucking reamer to take old chamber to .3125 (5/16) them run in either a 32 S&W long or 327 mag reamer. The star would become one for a 32 and match the cylinder.

A blank N frame cylinder could be used to do something I have been dreaming of. Use 30-30 cases to make a shorter 30 Herret type round with an OAL of 1.610. Kind of a big brother to my 22 Jet. LOL
Steeslaver,

All I know is that Andy said the later style extractor presented him with extra problems during the conversion and he had to do extra work on it. It did run into a little extra $$$ for me to pay.

BTW, my long loaded 327 FM rounds with 125 gr bullets come to within a whisker of the front face of the cylinder. A longer cylinder would have enabled a longer COAL if I had wanted one. I really hope HB resumes making his custom cylinders... I don’t see S&W doing it!

Let us know how you do making your own... you may find yourself with a great cottage industry if you want it!

Froggie
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:16 PM
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Obviously you don't need an extra long cyl. But if you ever do, look for a Convertable 22 LR cyl from a Model 53. They are longer to match the length of the 22 Jet cyl.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:08 PM
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This thread can’t fall away into oblivion yet, bump for some more looks. This gun is what “Green Frogs” dream about. Larry
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:53 PM
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3 bits of info. that may be of interest.....

My Model 16-2 had a Baughman sight.....
both Roy and David Carroll said," it was right as rain".

Secondly, My Bowens 16-4, rechambered in .327 Mag, shows accuracy has not been affected with .32Long wadcutters.

Finally, Fiocchi wadcutters are remarkably accurate in all the .32s, but my most accurate reload is with Hollow base 100gr. wadcutters and 1.8 gr. of VVN310. Literally one hole from a rest, and in my Pardini Bullseye gun, I have shot perfect rapid fire scores (on a good day).
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:30 AM
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I get the K-32 affection. I ABSOLUTELY get the idea of K-32 affection. I'm beginning a trek with a K-32 so this thread has my attention. I was considering a "faux K-32" until I stumbled on a real one. My plans changed in an instant.

I'm happy to hear that N310 is a good powder to try. I'm all set because I've been planning to try it in 45 ACP target loads. By the way, if anybody is looking, Speer 32 caliber HBWCs are available from Dillon for a reasonable price. I looked around and found them out of stock at other places.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:49 AM
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Just saw this thread, Froggie, and want to congratulate you on the completion of another cool project!! What a great idea, carried out with panache and skill!!

Best Regards, Les
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:10 AM
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Thanks to all for the kind words and support. A couple of questions for the various respondents;

Terry, which HBWCS are you using? I’ve got most of a box of Hornady’s discontinued(?) ones and a mould from Mihec to cast my own. Also, does that VVN310 bulk up any better than the Bullseye I’m currently using? BE lurks in the bottom of even the little 32 S&W L case and I need to spend too much extra time “case wrangling.”

Krogen, with my “match chambers” with .313” throats, this question becomes critical... are those swaged HBWCS from Speer sized to .314”? They won’t work in my gun.

Froggie
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:45 AM
Nasty Ned Nasty Ned is offline
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Back in 1959 I was getting ready to ship out from an air base in Newfoundland. One last trip to the PX and of course visited the gun section to oogle. There before my eyes were six, yes six Model 16's. Someone who was not very familiar with revolvers had ordered them and they had been setting there for several years I was told. They were having a sale to move slow moving items and the 16's were up for grabs for the enormous sum of $25.00 each. Yes I said 25 bucks. My gear was already very heavy so I passed. By the way, I'm the guy who chose a four screw 29 instead of a five screw. Who knew back then. I still have the 29 four screw so guess it wouldn't have made much difference which one I chose to keep forever.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:02 AM
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Default .32 Magnum Model 19



This conversion was done by the forum's own "Allenframe." He used a Model 19 frame and Model 16 cylinder and barrel. If the picture comes out large it is because I don't know how to shrink the picture.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
Krogen, with my “match chambers” with .313” throats, this question becomes critical... are those swaged HBWCS from Speer sized to .314”? They won’t work in my gun.
Hey Froggie,

Yep, the Speer bullets are 0.314" diameter. Are you positive they won't work in your gun? I would think the tight throats would be a good thing, provided the barrel's groove diameter isn't bigger.

That also applies to any cast bullet you'd want to shoot. You don't want to swage down a bullet in the throat only to have it "rattle" down the barrel. I trust your gunsmith has that all sorted out. If not, it would be simple (sorry... brand new gun, I know) to ream out the throats so they're the same size or larger than the groove diameter.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:57 AM
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FYI: I bought the Speer .32 HBWC bullets a couple of months ago and selected about 10 at random to measure. All of them were between .310 and .311.
None of them even made the nominal .312 and weighed 97.8 to 98.1 gr. A friend gave me some he cast from a Lee mold that weighed between 110 and 112 grs and measured .314 to .315. I bought some 98gr bullets from Missouri Bullet Company that are unsized and lubricated which I have not weighed but a random selection measured .313 to .315. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to reload any of them for my S&W Model 30, S&W Model 432PD, or my Alpha 4” revolvers.
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:30 PM
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Since the thread came up elsewhere on the forum proposing the addition of a second cylinder to a pre-War 32-20 M&P and I cited this thread with a slight resultant rise in interest in this project. Having had the gun in hand for nearly two years now, I’ve had time to reflect back on the project and on how it went.

First, it’s much better to be lucky than good and when, out of the blue, I got the offer of a NOS factory barrel for a K-32, the project got an immeasurable boost. The recent proposal to build a gun on a 32-20 had the advantage of providing a barreled frame ready to go. I had thought of this strategy before my barrel showed up, and other than settling for non-adjustable sights (or allowing for the extra effort/cost of installing them) it was a sort of attractive idea. I missed a post-War barrel for a M&P in 32 S&W Long, but had I gotten that, I would have used it along with the cylinder in this thread and a Model 10 donor to build my K frame 32 that way.

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Old 06-26-2020, 09:48 AM
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Since I’ve resurrected this thread, let me ask a question about reloading, specifically about bullets. Renegado mentioned a couple of years ago that his particular lot of Speer HBWCs actually measured .311”-.312” rather than the nominal .314” advertised. I probably could work with this as my chamber mouths are a tight 313”. Does anyone have a fresh lot of these from Speer, and are they still “undersized?” I’ve tried some DEWCs from Dale53’s Lee TL mould with promising results as well as some of beagle’s 105 gr SWCs (modified Lyman 313631) that did fairly well in spite of being loaded hotter than needed. I’ve got Mihec’s HBWC mould but haven’t taken the time to cast up a test batch of bullets from it yet. Oddly enough, a few bullets from the Lyman 313492 mould gave initially disappointing results.

Since there seem to be several of us toying with various iterations of the 32 S&W Long, perhaps we could gather down in the Reloading sub-forum and get a dedicated thread going?

Froggie
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Old 06-26-2020, 10:09 AM
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Froggie, I have a box of 1000 of the Speer HBWC which date to about 2010, and I measured 10 bullets and came up with a consistent .313.
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Old 06-26-2020, 10:29 AM
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Thanks H Richard. It looks like there may have been significant manufacturing variance over the years.

Froggie

Last edited by Green Frog; 06-26-2020 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Typo... correct the autocorrect!
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Old 06-26-2020, 10:58 AM
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After having read Mike Venturino’s articles a lot, I was in Livingston, MT. In 1988 and visited him at his house. Mutual friends hooked us up. We went down to his gun/reloading room and he showed me some guns I instantly recognized. One was a K-32 he wrote about with such fondness. Also his Triple Lock Target. The only TL I’ve ever had in my hand. There were a few Sharps around the room, too, as he was going to a N.M. Match to shoot.
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