I have a question. Obviously, there are only so many NIB older models around, and for the purpose of my question I will use say a 1975 Model 19-3 4'bbl. if you own the aforementioned gun, NIB( factory fired only), and you decide to start using it, how much in say percentage terms do you actually devalue the gun?

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Not rare, not even uncommon. If " using it" means occasional range use only; could be as little as 10% in my book.



Carrying it deer hunting....... in an open holster....... well condition is everything......some folks,here, have been saying that any decent .357 S&W is worth $500... so the wrong 'accident" could turn it into a $500 shooter grade......

There is absolutely no solid answer or math that solves this question, but you can likely bank on the idea that the LESS RARE the model is, the LESS DRASTIC the "devaluing" is likely to be.

The value question is often a difficult one because even if you can pin down a number and get most folks to agree what the number is, it is still only a number and opinion until two folks agree for certain and wish to exchange one for the other.

A tremendously large marketplace is Gunbroker and if you pay strict attention to what you see, you will come to the conclusion that some (well established!) sellers are always going to get more, and sometimes far more for any particular item than anyone else is going to get even if they run the exact same auction.

Are we to conclude the value is different?

I often make this suggestion to folks who happen to own a NIB gun that is dead mint or nearly so: if the idea of shooting it grates on you, your best solution may be to start shopping for a lower grade version of the same thing and shoot the wheels off that. Doing this is kind of like having your cake and eating it too!

I also offer this suggestion: while far less so on the S&W forum, which is loaded with astute collectors... you will find in many other forum just a truckload of folks, often of the loud-mouthed variety, who think you are NUTS for refusing to shoot and enjoy a high grade gun. Please don't listen to them -- they think they are right and they are not right because they are NOT YOU, they don't understand your thought process and while some never will, some of them actually evolve and see that not every gun has to be shot to be enjoyed. Don't let them try to convince you that you are wrong for wanting to keep a mint gun in mint condition.

I would think percentage wise it would vary based on how rare the gun is. While not common, you could find a NIB model 19, 27, etc but a NIB Registered Magnum as an example would be harder to replace.

Pete, please don't shoot it. If you want a clean one to shoot, I'll swap you out.

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Five screws and 3-1/2 inches.

I'm sitting here at the keyboard wondering how one can accurately "value" a NIB mid 70's pistol, which must be done before you can figure out how much it gets devalued. My off the cuff guess is that shooting it occasionally might drop the price 5% . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

This is an answer to your question that is only my opinion. I think occasionally shooting it, if careful and cleaned every time will not devalue your gun at all. Reason being if I were buying the gun from you I would not believe it had not ever been fired. The factory fires the gun before it leaves in every other chamber. So your gun has been fired. It is over 30 years old and very tough to prove any shots being fired. It may look exactly as good as it does now after a couple range trips so value being the same. I consider every used gun somebody is selling as NIB, to me it is basically LNIB. As other people have mentioned if it was rare or one of a kind that would be a different story. You would not want to shoot because an accident may happen( drop gun, scuff barrel, etc.). Guns are meant to be shot, that is why they are made. So just be careful but enjoy it.

I could see someone getting a grand for a perfect gun these days. 7 to 750 is what I see most 19s going for. Just my opinion and observation.

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Even older, even crankier....

Not intending to Vic, and mine is a 19-4. It was just a question. If I wanted to shoot a 19, I would buy one in shooter grade. I have a NIB 629 no dash, and I believe a NIB 15-3 X 2". i was just wondering what it does to the value

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

It depends on the revolver, of course, but while there are many shooter grade pistolas out there, including the very clean ones, every year there are fewer and fewer NIB examples of these guns. I sold an extremely clean (no "engraving" on the recoil shield), but fired, 29-2 x 6.5" for $1,650. Same gun, same year (1975), but unfired and complete, went a week later for $2,400.

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Five screws and 3-1/2 inches.

Guess I will keep my 3 unfired ones unfired. I have a 29-5 Classic DX 5" bbl. Fired 12 rounds 25 years ago. That is pretty close to NIB

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I would say .012% per 38 SPC round, .023% per 357 Magnum round.

All teasing aside, it’s really hard for me to say I’ve never shot a full cylinder through at least one of my guns. Having said that, have a couple I haven’t had the courage to devalue because of your very question.

I had that exact gun, year and all, and never gave a thought about not using it.(and I'm a guy that does like to keep certain guns in unfired condition) When I sold it, it was still in perfect,though fired condition,and I realized more than I paid, in not that many years..
If possibly losing $50 in value or appreciation at some unknown point in the future,(while you enjoy it in the meantime) is a consideration to you, you need to either change your thinking,or get supplementary income.

If you're fortunate enough to actually own a NIB gun from 40 years ago I would lean towards keeping it that way. You can go pick up any 19 from any era and shoot that instead. I definitely am not a believer in if you have it you have to shoot it. I have some really nice guns that aren't NIB but I choose not to shoot them because I really like the way they are right at this moment. There's always that chance that the gun won't come home from the range the way it went there.

Too many variables to give an exact answer. Somewhere between $50 and $200 depending on how much you shoot it. Some guns start to show wear after a couple cylinders while other hold up a little longer. It also depends on the rounds you're shooting. A box of .357 is going to have more wear than a box of .38 Specials. After a couple of range trips you'll start to notice wear around the muzzle, ejector rod, recoil shield, a little gas cutting on the top strap, the cylinder stop ring around the cylinder, etc.

However, what's the point of owning it if you're never going to shoot it?

"However, what's the point of owning it if you're never going to shoot it?"

My feelings exactly. About 12 years ago, I bought a nickel 8 3/8" M27 that was new in the box. I bought it, went out and shot it and then had it re-barreled to 5". Then shot it some more.

If someone wants to buy a gun and not shoot it, that's their choice. More than likely, after that person is dead and gone, the next owner will probably shoot it. I prefer to shoot my own guns and let some one else worry about the value after I'm gone.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I think you also are limiting your resale market by keeping a gun NIB.
I won’t pay the premium for an unfired NIB piece because I shoot everything
I buy. Of course some collectors will pay the premium, but they may be hard to find when you are ready to sell. Willyboy

I was going to take issue with your curt somewhat insulting answer, until I realized you never understood the original question. It was never about me. I picked a random common gun to ask a general question about depreciation. Oh, and supplemental is the correct form of the word you were searching for.

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Quick note:

More guns are likely devalued and degraded by poor handling, poor storage and ham-fisted, unneeded, WAY over-zealous cleaning then by actually shooting.

And if it's blued... by HOLSTERS.

Hahahaha, the comment above about "limiting your potential sales market...." Oh boy. Are you honestly suggesting that willfully keeping a gun in HIGHER CONDITION actually limits your future sale potential?! Did I understand that correctly...?

I'll admit it, I like having nice things, but I don't want to have anything I can't use in the fashion it was made to be used. That does not mean I don't take good care of the things I have. Use them, enjoy them, and maintain them.

So all of you non-shooting owners, please use your guns as they were made to be used. I'd bet you will learn to enjoy it.

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Always Stay Strong!

No my intention to be curt or insulting.I apologize. As others have suggested, there is no clear cut formula for such a thing.
Personally however, I don't understand the importance that some place on gun valuations. It's a commodity to be used and enjoyed(and if enjoyment is derived from keeping it unfired,that's fine too) Whatever that value is when its time to go,whatever my luck is in finding a buyer, that's what it is.The same applies to countless other items.I'm not going to worry about now,and my estate will just drop off the stuff at the LGS,and we know how that can go at times.I also don't apply the word "investment", or +-%, to items in the price range of most post war Smiths.It can get to be a discussion over the value of a dinner,some gas for the car,etc.
Back to your example, I figure that I had the fun of shooting my 19-3 for several years,and the hit that I took for doing so,over keeping it unfired, was in the neighborhood of $50...maybe 7-8%. Not worth thinking about,and both fortunately and unfortunately, I have bigger things on my plate.To me,condition trumps fired vs unfired. I'll take a pristine fired gun any day over a NIB that has picked some marks.
I also don't see rigid values to any gun. You could take 10 identical NIB guns,(or 10 identical fired)place them one at a time on a sales site and not realize the same price for any of them. The fluctuation could be just as great as the fired/unfired thing, with perhaps a fired gun even fetching more than an unfired example..

If I had an unfired gun of that age, I would leave it that way...for me, there is a sentimental or intangible value to NIB for so long...and there are so many other guns in my collection to shoot...or good cheap guns you can buy so you can keep the virgin intact...

I wonder if we could agree that if I suggested that you absolutely STOP shooting all of your guns... it would be ludicrous for me to do that.

In my opinion (of course) it is just as silly for you to suggest I shoot the few of mine that I specifically choose to not shoot.

This isn't black & white here, this is one man's values applied to a completely different person.

Also, please consider with all due respect -- you are wholly mistaken on why most guns were built, and in this discussion the example is a post-war commercial K-frame:

There was quite literally only one true reason this revolver was considered, designed, mocked up, tested, developed, produced, assembled, finished, proof tested, packaged, advertised, ship and then delivered:

It was made to be SOLD, pure, plain amd simply. Horace & D.B. or God or Allah or the ghost of John Browning or Rollin White or deep self reflection while sippin' whiskey cannot alter the fact with emotion... this revolver was produced and exists NOT to be shot, but to be sold as a for-profit venture.

Apologies if this is too deep in to a "soap box" style. Folks who shoot everything they own are doing it 100% correctly for themselves. It's nonsense to suggest to others that THEY are doing it wrong.

A hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question:

It depends.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Any Pre lock gun I've had that is NIB factory fired only brought a premium over a pristine used gun.

I buy used high condition duplicates for shooting enjoyment.

The only as new in box S&W older revolver I ever owned I traded because somewhere someone has to have a ANIB. I am a shooter not a collector and that revolver was easy to replace in a shooter grade. I got stupid trade value for it bc the other guy had to have it. If it bothers you to shoot it bc you might lose a buck shoot something else.

I have never heard a good reason for buying a gun and keeping it unfired for 25 years to gain let’s say a 100% profit. Buy for $500, sell for $1000 and made enough profit for what, a one month car payment? $500 @ 4% for 25 years is $1355. Guns are not good investments, especially safe queens...

I agree, there are better investment vehicles. I presume your 4% model is pre tax?

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I've always liked high condition Smith revolvers. But every time I have bought an ANIB gun I have regretted it. What am I supposed to do with it? I'm not a museum curator. I like the situation more when I'm a conservator -- cleaning and restoring a poorly kept example and bringing it back to as high a condition as I can.

Now, my interests have evolved. I recently bought a Model 10-8, circa 1984, that was an armored car company's service weapon. It has significant holster wear, and worn stocks (right side mostly). They tell the story of its life. But it locks up tight, and the action is smooth. I've beautified it a little bit, but it's best the way it is. It's on my lap right now, and I love it.

What's the moral of my story? Have it any way you want it, just be happy.

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Creation Continues

Why have a safe queen? Investment? OK, so you keep it for x years and sell it for a 100% profit - so you make $500. Big deal. I spend more than that for beer.

Now if having a virgin makes you happy, then go for it. Its your gun and you can do as you like.

To answer the question though, I personally think that shooting, cleaning and reboxing the gun will have no significant affect on the value. How many people are looking for virgins and are willing to pay a premium?

Enough to drive the economy . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I don't believe that most of us (maybe ANY OF US, EVER) are doing what you are suggesting. We did not and do not buy these new at retail and hold them hostage for four decades.

We hang out in a constantly active marketplace with opportunities and sometimes the unfired, mint, NIB guns present themselves, and we don't pay 3-4x of your shooter grade beater to get them.

But keeping throwing your rhetoric around, watching to see if it sticks.

I believe there is a larger than 5% difference between an unfired in the box with all the accompanying stuff over a fired and well maintained one.
I could be wrong, but there are enough hard core collectors of museum pieces that if it is something they need to fill a hole in a collection or just to scratch an itch, they will pay a premium for it.
I have owned several unfired guns over the years. I do not shoot them for one reason and that is because there are people in the market to whom a gun like that means a great deal. I can always get a shooter grade to scratch the itch to shoot it if I want to.
The number of unfired guns from the 60’s and 70’s is shrinking every year. Either because somebody shoots them or someone buys them and pigeon holes them for eternity in their collection.

Point of order: The only seller who can possibly own a "NIB" gun is an FFL. Once a gun has been sold to an unlicensed person (a 4473 created), it is no longer "New". It can be LIKE-NEW, or AS-NEW but it can't be New.

Buy a pre-owned gun from another individual and then tell the manufacturer you have a "new" gun. See what they say. They may not care and may offer a warranty, but in there eyes, it's not a NEW gun.

Some like preserving a gun that has never been fired.Some feel it's almost a sin to let a gun sit for decades without use.But many here are quick to hit the like button whenever a member post a NIB prestine revolver made decades ago.Just an observation I have witnessed over the years here.

Should you shoot the "unfired" safe queen or not?

It's a question that is debated without end on this site because there's no right or wrong answer to that question.

If you have a high-condition gun that looks unfired since it left the factory, how much does shooting it affect its value?

There's no right or wrong answer to that question, either.
Valuations fluctuate quite a bit, even on those high-condition guns.
It also depends on how often it's shot and with what ammo.
How it's cleaned and stored, how rare it is, etc.

However, condition is everything to a lot of buyers and it will affect value. How much is hard to say.

To many buyers, they're only interested in stock, 98 - 99% guns.
The LNIB type.

That's what I look for. And I'll pay a premium for them.

I've shot most of the ones I have purchased, with only a couple of exceptions.

These types of threads are fun. Almost as fun as bear threads!

Is my general question that difficult to understand, because this insulting answer is a clear misunderstanding of my original intent.

Did i say anything about running to the LGS and buying new guns at retail to stick in a safe for 4 decades? Well did I?

What I am trying to say here is, If you picked up a NIB gun from the WTS ads on THIS FORUM, how much do you devalue it ( if any) in terms of a percentage off of resale if you shoot the thing. Understand now? Just a general " what if" question.

"""But keeping throwing your rhetoric around, watching to see if it sticks.[/QUOTE]"''

Keep throwing rhetoric around to see if it sticks??? What kind of comment is that, you learn a new word? if you have some kind of a problem with me personally, I have an email address under my contact info. Feel free to use it. One could infer from your statement that you may not like some of my previous posts

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I see the unnecessary point, do you see mine?? i am talking about a gun that only the factory has fired. Isn't this just splitting hairs a bit? Who cares about a Form 4473?

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I realize that everybody has an opinion, and that is why i started this thread. Simply to get peoples opinions, on a very general question.

Joining a forum such as this one is supposed to be fun, and the overall spirit of conversation is to have general respectful discussion , share information, and better our sport. as Captain Kirk would say, that is the " prime directive".

This is the last thread I will start, and i wish I never started this one !

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

That’s a shame; I hope you reconsider. I think this a good discussion topic.

Personally, I don’t shoot 40 year old ANIB guns. Check historical sales on GB if you want to see some amazing prices. ANIB guns can bring 2-3X what excellent shooters bring. Collectors drive the market and there’s a very limited supply of time-capsule guns.

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"I also cook."

Kate Upton shows up at my house in a New Corvette... Both ALL MINE!

Both are going to be used and enjoyed.. OFTEN

Same with a gun.. Going to be used/enjoyed.. OFTEN

l guess that's why l buy only USED- cars and guns

I hope truly you will change your mind about this and stick with the forum .there are good people here and we need more. Sometimes there are people who get a little emotional with any opinions type thread and guns are like race cars you ask 100 drivers and you'll get 100 answers to the same question .I have found thru the years most folks who get on board with a certain opinion about anything and are willing to argue their point to the level of being rude are in reality trying to convince them selves they are right .Then you take the fellow who while " multitasking" as they say half reads a post and jumps right in with his or her opinion with the intention of setting things right by right they mean their thinking never understood the question . I found your original post to be very thought provoking as my opinion on this very question has changed .I have always been a shooter and thought collecting especially firearms was a waste but now I realize or think that if I live long enough some day my shooting just won't be a possibility collecting on the other hand can keep me in the game for many more years .I think it takes a certain amou t of maturity to collect firearms and keep them in NIB condition but this is a very important thing .Just think of the kids of today say like my 12 year old grandson when he is 62 in 50 years unless someone has a NIB gun ,stamp,coin heck even comic books he would never get tne chance to see how beautiful one of these was when new. I know this is long winded but I ho estly did feel your thread was thought provoking but I understand your frustration. My grandad use to tell me people's opinions and theories are like eating fish you have to eat the fish but throw the bones away . Your thread proves him correct . Dont quit hang in and help make the forum better .

Thank you for your response.

Pete

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

It depends on when you sell it, the market in which you sell it and the condition. Provided you paid fair market price, in most markets it’s highly probable, fired or not, it will still appreciate, but to what end? Even if it appreciated 100% you’re only looking at a few hundred bucks. It’s a low yield investment at best, to most it’s not worth the cost of babysitting it for the next owner. Unless you can flip it right now for a profit to help buy something you truly want, I say take it out and shoot it!

Buying quality firearms is a way of keeping family members from spending cash foolishly.
Whether you fire them or not they will have more value than most anything else family members purchased as the years pass.
A $350 revolver sold 30 years later for $1500 and just fired a bit .... the true value is what the new owner was willing to pay for the firearm.

I once stopped bidding on a Hohner Melodica as the bidding went above $75 ..... it sold for $400+.
I found one a month later and paid $50.

I had an encounter with a collector a few years ago I had an old M&P at a local shop doing a little work for me and this guy " the collector " was hanging out holding to snag a gun and the shop owner had already talked to me and we decided to pay a little prank. I went in to get an estimate on some work I wanted him to do . Ths collector was there as the shop owner had told him when I would be there he was hoping to buy this old M&P 32/20 off me and was truly hoping to ambush me and he thought the gunsmith was helping him out. I go in the smith says " hey man I have your estimate and proceeds to give me a price on cutting the barel from 6 to 2 inches and having the nickel removed and parkerizing it in other words just ruining this fine old revolver that was supposedly carried by a deputy that was involved in the Bonnie and Clyde shoot out and I supposedly had the paperwork to prove the provenance if the gun . This old collector guy had no idea he was being toyed with oh yea he collects lawenforcement firearms and memorabilia .He starts out by asking if that gun truly was carried at the famous shoot out I said yes sir .He said and you have the documentation to prove it .i said yes sir .He asks why are you wanting to do all this work to this gun I said well I've always wanted me a stub nose revolver .He said well how about I buy that gun off you and you just buy you another .I said well I don't know he says I'll give you 3 hi dred for it in cash ,I said I do t know sir he said I tell ya what I'll give you 5 100 dollar bills right now for it and the paperwork .I said sir that would just be a rip off he says ok sonny I didn't mean to insult you I'll go to 8 hundred right now ( my gunsmith buddy is nearly about to burst into laughter and has to go to the back room. I said sir I didn't mean you were ripping me off I couldn't take advantage of you like that this old gun is not worth more than say a couple of hundred bucks .He said son please please dont have this gun cut down and parkerized please don't. I said no sir I've already told the gunsmith to get the parts and stuff together .He looks confused and asks parts what parts ,I said well I want to put me of them red dot sights on it and he is going to weld me a picatinny rail right on the frame .This collector is almost in tears and says son dont you realize that gun is part of lawenforcement ,I started spinning the gun on tne counter the collector guy says please please dont do that .I said yes sir I know it is historic it was carried by a deputy in a famous gunfight yes the Bony McBride shoot out. They called the guy Boney cause he was so skinny . The colle tor guy says huh Boney McBride he calls out to the gu smith and says didn't you say "Bonnie and Clyde " the smith just can't control himself any longer and nearly falls over laughing and says no I said the Boney McBride shoot out .The collector says Boney McBride who the heck is he but he did t say heck at ths he realizes he has been had and he stomps out of the building .He got over it and he and I are cool now .The moral of this story is if a collector with deep pockets wants a certain gun all bets are off on what he might pay on the other hand most collectors are very very picky and are going to try to get the best deal they can so yea they will devalue a gun when buying but when they sell it they only talk the same gun up. My favorite antique dealer has a sign that reads " I only buy junk but everything I sell is collectible very very collectible .

From a collectors perspective, shooting this would be a huge mistake.

S&W only made about 20,000 Model 58's over the 5 years they were produced. The original owner bought this one new through his PD, wrapped about a half roll of masking tape around the box and put it up. He sold it to me 40-some years later for about 6X the original price and I was thrilled to pay it!

It took a while, but I was able to remove the masking tape and salvage the box. Just how many of these do you think survived unfired, in this condition, with everything that came with it?

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"I also cook."

Who here would buy a brand new all the options Corvette and park it in a heated garage? Wax it every couple months and condition the interior. You could tell people you owned it, post pictures of it. Hey, the price MIGHT be great when your kid sells it in 50-60 years. If gasoline exists, people still drive cars etc. Jay Leno will probably be dead.

Or would you take it out, spin the wheels, feel the acceleration, the way it handles in a tight corner?

Same question, just a differnt medium and $ level.

I get both sides. I drive my cars and shoot my guns. I figure when I that when I take my model 27 out, open the mahogany box, take it out of its velour nest and blast some 357s through it, feel the recoil and see the target, I will enjoy that more than knowing somebody someday will get some extra cash because I left it new. Thats me.

I only own one S&W that is unfired a 24-3 4 inch that I bought recently.
Will I fire it, no, will it be worth more than a fired pristine example I have no idea and it doesn't matter to me. Granted there are fewer 24-3s then 19-3s but for me it's the novelty of holding a firearm that's 35 years old and has never been fired outside the factory. I have more than enough guns to take to the range without firing the 24. I sincerely hope the OP reconsiders about posting threads I don't think that it's foolish or snobbish to keep a gun unfired regardless of what others might think.