My apologies if this is the wrong place, but I couldn't find any existing threads in the other revolver forums for the 29-2.

Can some one please explain the differences between the S series serial numbers and the N series, and what does "pinned and recessed" mean?

I would like to find a Model 29-2 to add to my collection, specifically 8 3/8 barrel length.

I have heard/read somewhere that the S series is preferred over the N,but I can't remember why.

Thanks
Richard

Simple explanation. S Serial is older. S&W had to switch to the N serial because of the Gun Control act of 1968 that required unique serial numbers. S&W had used the S serials on early post war K frames and had to stop using the S on the N frames at that time.

Pinned means that the barrel is pinned.

Recessed means that the cylinder chambers are recessed for the rim for magnum cartridges.

Both of these features were deleted in approximately 1982 and are on both the S and N serial number ranges of the Model 29. 29-3 did not have those features.

I am not sure there are many differences between the the late S series and the early N serial numbers (others more experienced will be along shortly) Pinned refers to the barrel having a locking pin through the frame and upper portion of threaded portion of barrel to prevent the barrel from unscrewing. Recessed refers to the cylinder having a recess counter sunk to completely contain the head of the cartridge case both were eliminated with the 29-3 series. The S prefix are more desirable to collectors simply because they are earlier, and believed to be better made higher craftsmanship ect.

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Randy

S333454 was the last of the S-series N frames in 1969. And I believe the change to the N prefix was as a result of GCA-1968 requirements for unique serial numbers. K-frame revolvers also used an S prefix SN from 1946 to 1948 so there was the possibility of duplicated serial numbers had the S-series N frame remained in use. The N-series N frames were made until 1986 when a new serial numbering system was adopted.

Pinned barrels and recessed chambers were eliminated in 1982 for those models which previously had them. No big deal as their presence really didn't add anything worthwhile, but some S&W fans took their elimination as signifying a big step downward in quality (which it wasn't). It probably saved S&W a few cents per unit in manufacturing cost.

Note that while pinned barrels were the norm for S&W up until about 1982, it was essentially a redundant feature that was not really necessary. Barrels were always installed with a torque value sufficient to ensure that they would not unscrew. Colt never used a barrel pin, nor any other manufacturer that I can think of offhand.

For S&W, recessed cylinder chambers were used only on magnum cartridges such as the .357, .44, .41, etc., and on .22 rimfire. So if someone says they have a "pinned and recessed" .38 for sale, that is not correct, it would be just pinned. Again it was a practice that was not really necessary although other manufacturers sometimes did it. Early Ruger single actions had recessed cylinders. It does look more pleasing to the eye, but it does make it more difficult to tell at a glance whether or not a revolver is loaded. Not that anyone should ever rely on just a glance!


Edit - and I see DWalt beat me to it!

WAS PUTTING A PIN IN THE BARREL, AND RECESSING THE CHAMBERS. BOTH "CURES" FOR PROBLEMS THAT DID NOT EXIST ? ? ?

WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE DRIVING FORCE TO INITIATE THESE ENGINEERING CHANGES IN THE FIRST PLACE ? ? ?

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I would have to say yes. Colt saw no need for pinned barrels and recessed chambers for its revolvers and did not use them, even for their .357 Magnums. The idea behind recessed chambers is usually given as a need to provide better support of the cartridge case base for high pressure Magnum calibers back in the days of balloon-head cases which had less internal metal at their bases to withstand high pressures. But that reason was pretty well gone somewhat before WWII as stronger solid-head cases took over. In fact, I believe that neither .357 Magnum nor .44 Magnum cases ever used the balloon head design. I have no idea why pinning barrels was ever thought to be necessary, so long as the barrel twist was the opposite of the thread twist. The driving force to eliminate barrel pins and recessed chambers was probably to save production costs.

There may have been more of a rationale for recessing .22 RF chambers as that upon the introduction of high speed .22 RF ammunition in the early 1930s, there was some increased frequency of the occurrence of circumferential splits around the rims. The rim support provided by recessed revolver chambers was felt necessary to control that better. However, the ammunition manufacturers soon took care of that failure problem and rim splits became rare.

One can make a case that revolvers without recessed chambers are safer as one can tell at a glance whether the revolver is loaded or not as the case rims are always visible.

The blued finish on guns of that era are highly polished.

Interesting that the gentleman simply asked what these terms mean. Just an observation.

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You're shy a few manners.

I have a very early N serial model 28 and the outside of the forcing cone is very nicely finished with a chamfer. The later N serials have the forcing cone just flush cut with a rather rough unfinished surface. It is those kinds of details which makes us say: The earlier the better.

Wow, that's interesting. At an out-of town pawn shop some years ago I found a set of N frame magna grips stamped 333358. Couldn't beat the price but wish I had the rest of it, whatever it was (27, 28, 29, 57?)
Pretty fun to think they were on one of the last 100 S-prefix guns produced!

Well, they COULD have been from revolver number S333358, but they could also have come from N333358. However, if they were diamond Magna stocks, they would originally have been on an S prefix gun.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I believe the diamond stocks were last shipped in 68-ish and the S prefix guns were shipped until 1970. Mine are non diamond with black washers but I'm not sure when they switched washer color. Anyone have the SCSW close by?

All true. My point was only that stocks with that number could have come from either an S or an N prefix gun. The washer is consistent with either, since they were still black in 1976-77. Not sure when they changed either, but it wasn't that early IIRC.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

That's a new wrinkle to me but, I have never professed to know everything? I always thought S prefixed guns were the first 10,000 or so of a guns run? I've never heard of the Gun Control Act of 1968 having anything to do with serial numbers of guns?
Steve

Best link that I could find quickly that wasn't wikipedia.

Are Firearms without Serial Numbers Illegal? - Pennsylvania Law Abiding Gun Owner Blog

Essentially, there was no requirement before the GCA of 1968 to even have a serial number. This is seen quite frequently in shotguns and rim fires produced before this law went into effect.

Smith & Wesson is known for repeating serial numbers across different models. For instance the S prefix in early post war K frames and later N frames. You see it a lot with non prefix serials too.

Your link to Pennsylvania laws doesn't work . Not federal dictated? 1968 GCA is federal law not Pennsylvania law but, I believe(by Federal law, all firearms, now, are covered and must have a serial number on them.
Steve

It does work, you just have to click this site's disclaimer about that link taking you to an external site.

That's a Pennsylvania site that discusses federal law. Not concerning Pennsylvania law at all.

All federal references just gives a pdf of the actual law. Read that if you want. It's easy enough to find by a Google search.

So what law gave the federal requirement for serial numbers? Answer that and you'll fix your wrinkle

You are correct about the case heads; by 1935 when .357 Magnum was introduced balloon head cases were a thing of the past.

The rifling direction is an interesting point because S&W has always used right-hand twist, meaning the force of the bullet is indeed in the direction to unscrew the barrel. Colt is famous for using a left-hand twist.

And yes, eliminating both features reduced costs without affecting quality or function, although I do like the way a pinned barrel looks.

Because they could?

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RIP Shipmate