MODEL 27-2 5" 1975

StarmanFR · #1 05-20-2019, 01:51 AM

Dear All,

I'm new here, French, as regulation is kind of complicated over here to buy a gun, it took me almost a year to get a "buying permission". So i used this year to look for a very specific model of S&W revolver. For month i looked for model 27-2 6". Two weeks ago, i found in a gun shop, the 6", BUT, the seller had also in its original box, with paper and cleaning kit, a beautiful 27-2 with a 5" barrel. The serial number indicates that it was manufactured in 1975. The condition was that excellent, almost perfect since the circular mark on the cylinder is barely not visible.

It's a 3T model/square butt. I paid 950 US$ each guns, the seller didn't realized the barrel was 5" and not 4".

The 6" is also a 3T, good condition (but not as good the 5"), manufactured in 1980.

Well, regarding the fact i bought them in Europe, do you think i made a good deal?

What do you know about the 5"? I believe it is not really common?

See the picture: on top the 6" and bottom the 5".

I will send more pictures later, i paid the shop to book them for me, since i'm still waiting for regulation papers, which are processing well at the moment. I just need to be patient 4 more weeks. It's so hard to get those papers, but finally, i can see the end of the tunnel.

Best,
Denis.

6518John · #2 05-20-2019, 02:37 AM

Denis—I think you made a great deal! Welcome to the forum. There was this guy named “Skeeter” (believe it or not) who said the PERFECT revolver was a 5 inch model 27.

Skeeter's Dream Gun - Shooting Times

ars1876 · #3 05-20-2019, 03:14 AM

Welcome Denis. I think you made an excellent purchase. I have two 5 " from the same time period and I know you will be very happy with the two you bought. Model 27's can become addictive you will probably begin your search for a 3 1/2 " before too long.

6string · #4 05-20-2019, 03:45 AM

Hello Denis,

Very nice! Congratulations on getting through the paperwork!
I would be very interested to hear if you have any comparitive comments on the S&W 27 and the French-made Manurhin MR73 revolver.
Do you see the Manurhin, either the old model or the newer Chapuis made version, much in France? What about relative value?
I remember being surprised at the high prices of S&W revolvers in many European countries, years ago, especially when compared to high end European revolvers such as the Manurhin or Korth.

I guess that's human nature, or maybe like the saying "nul n'est prophete en son pays"?

Best Regards,
Jim

Chromedhearts · #5 05-20-2019, 10:25 AM

Sounds to me like you found a very good deal, even by U.S. standards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PALADIN85020 · #6 05-20-2019, 11:10 AM

I like the 5" Model 27s also. Here's mine, a 27-2 nickeled example, shipped in 1978. 3 Ts, came with presentation case. Skeeter knew his guns - this breed is very special.

John

StarmanFR · #7 05-20-2019, 04:49 PM

Hi Jim "6string",

For sure i have been lucky to test a special version of the MR73, with 10" barrel (picture bellow). ***! MR73 was a popular handgun for police officers and what we called "Gendarme", a police unit composed on former soldiers, a department of the army for civilian police. Nowadays, it is very easy to buy those vintage revolver since the police department are selling all the old ones they have. Every week, i can see new addition to listing of those in shops in paris. Today i saw MR73 4" at 800 US$ for a very good condition. MR73 is an amazing revolver, a piece of french police history during the "great" time of famous gangsters in Paris in the 70". There is a great french movie called MR73, watch it! I will definitely buy one, but since it is very easy to find in France, i'll stay focus on S&W. I'm gonna buy next month model 28 4" early 80 (i saw one for 600 US$). A friend of mine also bought a rare SW model 19-"Raymond Sasia", aka SW 19 Rs. Sasia was the body guard of General DE Gaulle, and first foreigner officer to get training at FBI. Hoover offered him as gift, Al Capone's machine gun. Back in france, he asked SW to design a special SW Model 19 3" for french police. Very rare, with Raymond Sasia tag on the frame, and special logo as well. love it! And next time i'll try MR73, i'll get you video and photos.

And thanks for the paperwork. 1 year is the minimum time to get an authorization to own firearms at home. We are not allowed to hold it, just to have it at home and at the shooting range but not to hold it with you in the city. This paperwork also requiers 2 medical inspections from your local doctor to prove you are not insane and mentally stable, plus a few and long investigation of the local police station with your neighbors, relatives, social media etc... to make sure you are "politically" not a threat to the nation and democracy, and no criminal records and not relation to any extremist religious......... So at the moment, i know detectives are sneaking my garbage, my life and everything. And trust me or not, when you asked a doctor to approve your gun owning, since they are engaging they own responsibility if you are going wrong with your guns, 90% will decline to approve this. That's why our french shooting federation is only counting less than 300 000 members (we are 68M citizens). That's not includes the hunters, different federation, different toys.

If people wants to get more details about the difficulties to own a firearms in france, i could list everything, to compare with the US.

And thank you everybody for the kind words to welcome me. Really happy to see and share your knowledge and opinion with amazing S&W fans.

Denis.

lonegunman762x51 · #8 05-21-2019, 03:32 AM

I think you got a smoking deal. Where in France? I was stationed in the south about 15 years ago and used to visit a nice gun shop in Marseilles.

Enjoy shooting them, they both should do very well with 38 special, 148gr full wadcutters or 158gr semi wadcutters for plinking and target shooting. Do find yourself some decent magnum ammo and try it out as well.

If I remember correctly, France has no concealed carry or right to self defense so you do not have to worry about using them to stop criminals. That being said, the first round of magnum ammo at the range should wake the neighbors up.

Daimler1989 · #9 05-21-2019, 03:43 AM

Bonjour Denis,

le 5" est le M27 par excellence. J'ai aussi le M27-2 5" avec les 3 T, je le considère le meilleure à cause de son balance et son caractère en tir. Où est-ce que tu habite en France?

To all non-french speakers here: I guess the 5" M27-2 is the best M27 in regard to balance and shooting virtues.

best regards from Germany
Ulrich

Vettepartz · #10 05-21-2019, 05:19 AM

Denis - Welcome to the Forum. I always find it interesting to hear about the gun laws in other countries. It shows how fortunate we are here in the US. I think you will find a wealth of information regarding S&W's here on this forum.

You did great on your purchase. It looks like that presentation box was made for the 5" model. That in itself is a fairly rare item and adds a lot to the value of your purchase. Enjoy your new revolvers.

beagleye · #11 05-21-2019, 06:11 AM

Beautiful revolvers! I agree the 5" barrel is balanced very well with the looks and feel of the n frame. I have a 5" 27-2 in nickel, love it.

It does appear some one may have notched the sight on the 5". I think it should be a Baughman ramp, but it appears to have a step in the middle.

cmansguns · #12 05-21-2019, 08:46 AM

Welcome StarmanFR from Virginia!

I believe you got a VERY GOOD deal for $950 US each. In my area of central, coastal, Virginia either of those would go well over $1,000 and with case, docs, tools.....easily probably $1,500 or more.

The Model 27 just do not sit long at gun store shelves around here.

Like others have said, a 3-1/2" has to be next for you. Do you get a lot of range time in France, or is that regulated to only a few times to shoot your guns?

I try to shoot mine as often as time permits. The "Pre 27" is just as fun as the 3-1/2" 27-2, and the 6" 27-2 Nickel...they are all good guns and you are on the right trail...none of these are made anymore to these quality levels.

It has always amazed me how these firearms end up in foreign countries, and the specimens you folks find seem to be very lightly used, if at all.....we Collectors over here dream abut "complete packages being found" but usually...it is the single gun found (that is why I am classed more as a "accumulator" than a collector).

Again...........welcome to the Forum....glad to have you here.

Old_Cop · #13 05-21-2019, 09:09 AM

Welcome from Pennsylvania, I also have a 5" and 6" model 27.

Marshal tom · #14 05-21-2019, 09:48 AM

Welcome from Colorado. I only have one, a 4" Pre 27 special order barrel length. I am looking for a 3.5" and a 5" Pre 27.

Art Doc · #15 05-21-2019, 08:02 PM

The 5" 357 & 27 are my favorite DA revolvers.

rubiranch · #16 05-21-2019, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal tom

Welcome from Colorado. I only have one, a 4" Pre 27 special order barrel length. I am looking for a 3.5" and a 5" Pre 27.

I have a 27 and a 27-7, both 6.5".

I'm hoping that my 3.5" .357 Magnum makes it here next week.

StarmanFR · #17 07-07-2019, 04:33 AM

Hello everybody, i just wanted to keep you informed that i'm still waiting to get my documents from the french government. It seems that after three months of investigations from the police department etc..), i could get them within a few days.. Can't wait to finally get my babies. When i'll get them (there are still kindly booked for me at the gunshop) i will send you a few pictures.
For the moment i am still using guns from my club. I had a chance to use a SW 686-3. It was very pleasant to use, my session went very well with .357 at 25meters range (28yards) as you can see in the pictures.
In France minimum academic distance is 28yards, and position must done with one hand grip, and we do 1 session of x50 shots. Then the total of point is based on a maximum of 500 (bull's eye is 10 points) I usually stay around 405/410 points, but those guns from the club are settled for right handed with right dominant eye (i'm left handed with left dominant eye..) so when i'll get my own guns with my now settings, perhaps i'll be around 450 points..

would be great.
As i do home reload, i used this time a Finnish powder N110 (VIHTA-VUORI), 1gr, 158grs round noise. So for the first shots, i was a bit stressed (as you ca see on the right hand side of the target), but then it went well. I was just surprised how loud is this slow powder. But less recoil than the Vectan SP3 powder. Any way, i can't wait to share my next session with my own guns.

Best,
Denis.

StarmanFR · #18 09-01-2019, 03:26 AM

Hello, FINALLY, after 5 months of waiting, i got my gun owning authorization from the french government. 5 months my past, my mental status, personal and criminal records and citizen good behavior including my shooting skills and member good behavior at the range etc etc have been processed by the state, police dep and doctors, and shooting instructors as well, i received my authorization last Friday, so i immediately run at the gunshop and bought the babies that i booked 6 months ago..
Ta da, as promised, here are some pictures to enjoy those two magnificent SW Model 27-2 (3T): 5" with it's original presentation case (1975) and 6,1/2" (1981). Total i paid: 1700 USD$ (got a gentle discount at the end)
Any recommendation to clean them properly after shooting?
Denis.

StarmanFR · #19 09-01-2019, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vettepartz

Denis - Welcome to the Forum. I always find it interesting to hear about the gun laws in other countries. It shows how fortunate we are here in the US. I think you will find a wealth of information regarding S&W's here on this forum.

You did great on your purchase. It looks like that presentation box was made for the 5" model. That in itself is a fairly rare item and adds a lot to the value of your purchase. Enjoy your new revolvers.

Yes, the presentation case was designed for the 5" itself. The gun fits perfectly and there are no gaps. Also, it came with cleaning tools, orignal documentation and brochure, and as a cherry on the pie, the orignal anti-corrosion paper that wrapped the gun in 1975. It definitely smells like a good past..
But nothing is perfect in this world, there is a small crack on the blue feature where the barrel stand. But not visible when the gun is presented in the case. A few english inscriptions are written on the back, hidden behind the blue plastic. But i'll keep them for myself..

moralem · #20 09-01-2019, 03:43 AM

Just this evening I was cleaning up 27-2 and my Colt OMM.

Stirling · #21 09-01-2019, 04:23 AM

Congratulations StarmanFR, two very nice revolvers you have there. Supreme patience on your part. Well done.

6string · #22 09-01-2019, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarmanFR

Hello everybody, i just wanted to keep you informed that i'm still waiting to get my documents from the french government. It seems that after three months of investigations from the police department etc..), i could get them within a few days.. Can't wait to finally get my babies. When i'll get them (there are still kindly booked for me at the gunshop) i will send you a few pictures.
For the moment i am still using guns from my club. I had a chance to use a SW 686-3. It was very pleasant to use, my session went very well with .357 at 25meters range (28yards) as you can see in the pictures.
In France minimum academic distance is 28yards, and position must done with one hand grip, and we do 1 session of x50 shots. Then the total of point is based on a maximum of 500 (bull's eye is 10 points) I usually stay around 405/410 points, but those guns from the club are settled for right handed with right dominant eye (i'm left handed with left dominant eye..) so when i'll get my own guns with my now settings, perhaps i'll be around 450 points..

would be great.
As i do home reload, i used this time a Finnish powder N110 (VIHTA-VUORI), 1gr, 158grs round noise. So for the first shots, i was a bit stressed (as you ca see on the right hand side of the target), but then it went well. I was just surprised how loud is this slow powder. But less recoil than the Vectan SP3 powder. Any way, i can't wait to share my next session with my own guns.

Best,
Denis.

Hello Denis,

That's a pretty good showing. I could tell from your groups, and the location of a couple "flyers" that you are a lefty! If you get your scores up to 450 with the new S&Ws, that would be really impressive!
Those are good loads with good powders. Vectan is not very common here, but those who use it will attest to it's very high quality. I found some years ago that the two fast powders BA-10 and BA-9.5 are very good for reduced target loads.

Thank you for sharing the earlier picture with the Manurhin MR-73 with 10" barrel. Very nice!

Jim

El_Phantasmo · #23 09-01-2019, 09:56 PM

I paid more than that for my 5" 27-2 in a presentation case.

I think you got a good deal.

Congrats on jumping through all the hoops successfully!

rubiranch · #24 09-01-2019, 10:22 PM

Since your first post I acquired the same gun, a 1975 5" 27-2.

Beautiful guns for sure. I might even shoot mine one of these days.

I think its awesome that you got one especially considering how difficult it must be to purchase handguns.

iskra · #25 09-02-2019, 01:21 AM

Wow! Some real beauties here! Thanks for Thread and interesting info about handgun possession in France! California would wish such a model. Interesting about physician input! Here, can't imagine very many such being willing to certify or even make a recommendation! Visualizing personal liability, career end, etc.
Moving right along...
My two N frame .357 Mags, both 5" 'sweet spot': 27-2 SN N325K / 1975 with case, etc papers & all. 'Pre 27, SN S99K from about 1951. Excellent but w/no extras. These, the 'beaus', not to be confused with my 2 Highway Patrolman N & S frames, 6" & 4"; respectively... The beasts!

Also, honorable mention, a Reg Mag c. 1938, 6" refinished. No factory inquiry planned.
These Smiths are simply great guns!
My take!
John

schutz5 · #26 09-02-2019, 02:11 AM

Hey Denis,you have good taste.
Prices are better than in my home state in West coast USA!

- Denis

Texas Star · #27 09-02-2019, 03:00 AM

Is it true that you may not legally shoot a dangerous intruder breaking into your home? I have trouble understanding why Europeans tolerate such laws, forbidding basic self defense.

StarmanFR · #28 09-09-2019, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6string

Hello Denis,

That's a pretty good showing. I could tell from your groups, and the location of a couple "flyers" that you are a lefty! If you get your scores up to 450 with the new S&Ws, that would be really impressive!
Those are good loads with good powders. Vectan is not very common here, but those who use it will attest to it's very high quality. I found some years ago that the two fast powders BA-10 and BA-9.5 are very good for reduced target loads.

Thank you for sharing the earlier picture with the Manurhin MR-73 with 10" barrel. Very nice!

Jim

Dear Jim,

Finally, i’ve been free this weekend to try my S&W.

After a few rounds, i started to adjust the settings, mostly the 6" was too low and 5" too high.

Target is a classic C50 (US= B-17), 25m distance (27 yards/82feet), academical position (one hand for the grip, the other hand in the back).

Then after a triangulation serie, i’ve been able to reach the score i usually do with a score board of 400 on 500 (50 rounds, bullseye=10). But still, the first 3 rounds for the 6" was too low and during this session I've change again the setting (so my score could be even better). I think next session i’ll be ready to score 420 even 450 easily.
I’m really happy with those S&W.
I think for now i’m gonna look for a M28 highway patrol man (always been a fan of CHIP’s haha) and later a M29 6" or 8".

I'll share you soon the next session and see If I could break my personal record. Again, I'm pretty sure I can do 450 since now I got my own guns that I can setup for my self (left handed, Right dominant eye).
Best,
Denis.

crsides · #29 09-10-2019, 12:26 AM

My only 5" 27, it's a 27-1 with Keith Brown Birdseye maple grips. The originals are tucked safely away.

Raystown · #30 09-10-2019, 07:08 AM

Very Nice !!!

Jeromejr · #31 09-10-2019, 09:59 PM

Very nice! I offered a seller $800.00 on his price a year ago. 27-2 6” wood box. It sat at a store for a month. I bought it.