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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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Old 01-27-2020, 07:09 AM
rolandj rolandj is offline
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What do these mean: STOCK: ST, TH: V, TT: SM, WO: V


Last edited by rolandj; 01-28-2020 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Add pic. of label
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:47 AM
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I think those "V"s are actually check marks. That is, the checkbox for TH (Target Hammer) and WO (White Outline for the rear sight) are checked, indicating the revolver has those features. The TT means Target Trigger but I could only guess why the checkbox is marked SM.

For Stocks (often called Grips) the T would mean "Target". Whether the S means "Smooth" or something else, we will need to wait for another member to clarify that.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:58 AM
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Jack Flash is correct. ST means square target. The Vs are check marks. Never heard of SM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nframe_is_no1 View Post
Jack Flash is correct. ST means square target. The Vs are check marks. Never heard of SM.
Maybe 'smooth'?
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:06 AM
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You might be right. Didn’t think of that!

Last edited by Nframe_is_no1; 01-27-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:16 AM
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The S in the stock box is for square butt. ST is for square butt , target. See the last sentence in the pic of the letter. The SM I don't know either.
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:27 PM
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Interesting letter, thanks for posting it.

I have to say, I thought a single letter S meant "Standard", that is, standard magnas not targets. Furthermore I thought pretty much all N-Frames were square butts at that time, so the designation "Square" would be redundant / unnecessary. Did Factory-Made Round Butt Targets even exist back in the day?

Well, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong!

Can someone confirm that S&W box labels often have the "Stocks" area marked "TS" for "Target Stocks" instead of the single letter T?
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandj View Post
What do these mean: STOCK: ST, TH: V, TT: SM, WO: V
What model or frame is this, K, N?

If I'm reading this correctly, it says ST in stock, TH is checked, and SM is in TT? Says "RR" in front sight too?
Is there a label with a ten digit number on the other end of the box, what is it?

I'm guessing your revolver has a red ramp front sight, white outline rear, target hammer, smooth (note serrated) target trigger and speedloader cut out (not extractor/football) target stocks.
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:20 PM
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I apologize for being so abrupt this morning posting this request. I really appreciate all the help from you all. Pretty sure I have enough info now to figure it all out. STOCK ST= Smooth Target, TH= Target Hammer, TT= Smooth metal, WO= White Outline I was interested in finding out this info cause it's on the blue box of a 19-3 Texas Ranger Commemorative I just bought. Thanks to all for your help. Great folks on this S & W sight.

Last edited by rolandj; 01-30-2020 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Square not Smooth Target
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandj View Post
STOCK ST= Smooth Target
No. ST is "square butt target."
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
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No. ST is "square butt target."
Corrected my post. Thank you
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:33 PM
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25 with N (nickel finish),TT (target Trigger), TH (Target Hammer), RR (red ramp), WO (white outline), TS (target stocks)

Special order as it has a Spec Ord # (but I have no idea what that order entailed)

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Old 01-27-2020, 11:01 PM
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For some reason I got the idea this box was for an N-Frame. In post #9 we see it is an M19-3, a K-Frame. But I still wonder if there were factory Round Butt Target Stocks in production at that time, for K- or N-Frames.

If so, why does the box shown in post #12 have "TS" for Stock? Does this really stand for "Targets, Square Butt" and we have been wrong all along thinking it means "Target Stocks"? Or is this just another example of inconsistent nomenclature at S&W?
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:36 PM
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Revolver feature codes were reassigned in 2004. On page 200 & 201 SCS&W 4th is a list. On that list is TS - Target Stocks. Post 12 shows a pre printed label. Here are 2 pics I have of a hand written 29-2 label and Reg. Mag commerative pre printed label. The Reg. Mag is from 1985 and 29-2 from 1977.
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Last edited by wetdog; 01-28-2020 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:41 PM
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Jack
I might be wrong about this, but in the early 1980s the company moved to a different label that was, I think, computer generated. That is what you are seeing in Post #12. I have an ANIB Model 24-3 that shipped in November, 1983, and has that same label on the box end. It says TS for the stocks. I believe it may mean "Target Stocks" but that is different from what was written on the old labels that relied on handwritten marks.

On the older labels, my boxes have either R or S handwritten in the stocks part of the label, denoting either round or square butt. If it was a square butt gun that shipped with target stocks, the T was added after the S. I own and have looked at enough boxes to be quite convinced this is the case. Also, several years back, I asked Roy about the S and he said it meant "square."
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:40 AM
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Very interesting discussion. I never really cared much about boxes. If one came with a gun I bought, it unceremoniously went into the box of boxes. I will have to pull some of those out and compare them to information here.

Changes S&W made in 2004 and beyond would be outside my area of interest.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:16 AM
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Interesting and informative for sure. I forgot to mention in post 14 that the 29-2 label only has a T in the stock box. When hand written I'm sure they weren't thinking 40-50 years ahead and wondering what we would be thinking about it.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandj View Post
What do these mean: STOCK: ST, TH: V, TT: SM, WO: V

That is a Texas Ranger special addition. The SM is for smooth trigger, It came with a smooth combat trigger. The ST is for Smooth Target. The V's are check marks and as previously stated the WO is white outline.
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:40 PM
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I see Roland has posted a picture of the label, thanks for that Roland.

You probably know the RR means the front sight has a Red Ramp insert.

I wonder what the BT for Finish means. Obviously, B is Blue, but the T means what? Texas?
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:06 PM
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BT means Bright Blue finish. The T is part of the serial number range for this Commemorative. TR1- TR10000.

Last edited by wetdog; 01-29-2020 at 07:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:16 PM
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Post 18, can you please let us know where your information on the ST meaning smooth target is from ? Posted is a pic of my 19-4 with ST and checkered stocks. Thanks for any info you can provide.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:33 PM
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The Texas Rangers came with smooth football targets.

Looking on K-frames that came with targets before late '79, they should all have "T" for target (like the N-frame posted earlier [by you ]) and those came with extractor relieved/football targets. When S&W went to the speedloader targets in late '70 it changed to ST.
When they went to the computer labels it became TS.

So, for your 9/81 Model 19 it means speed loader targets but on the 1973 TR, it means smooth targets.

Last edited by snw19_357; 01-29-2020 at 07:34 PM. Reason: added who posted n-frame
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:36 PM
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Thanks. This is getting more interesting by the day .
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:00 PM
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I agree the Texas Ranger series came with smooth Goncalo Alves target grips and the half wide ( compared to a target trigger) smooth “combat “ trigger. I used this same trigger in my competition 19 as the firing was mainly double action, my Texas Ranger came with a knife serialed to the revolver the pistols were also sold without the knife and the knives were sold separately.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:15 AM
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I agree the Texas Ranger series came with smooth Goncalo Alves target grips and the half wide ( compared to a target trigger) smooth “combat “ trigger. ...
I wondered if "Trigger = SM" meant a Smooth Medium Trigger.
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