S&W newbie with M15 USAF question

[vistafjord]

Hi folks,
First off, I am a complete newbie to this forum and S&Ws generally. To give me some street cred, I just joined SWCA. My question: I'd like to learn more about USAF-issued S&Ws, especially the M15s with the USAF stamp on the frame. I would appreciate any pointers to good references, posts or dealers that specialize in these USAF wheel guns so that I can learn more. Once I get up to speed, I'd like to start collecting them . Thanks in advance! David

[JP@AK]

Welcome and good luck in your pursuit.

What I can tell you about the USAF Combat Masterpieces is that we used them in 'Nam and they were standard issue for many years. I carried one for two years during my service in SE Asia. Those we had were equipped with 4" barrels and had Magna stocks with target triggers and hammers. I believe there were also some 2" examples issued to air crew members, but the vast majority that were carried by the AP/SP, ammo troops and dog handlers had the 4" barrel.

Both Model 15-2 and Model 15-3 examples were found. This reflects the fact that the Model 15 became the standard sidearm before 1967, when the -3 was introduced.

I have been casually collecting S&W revolvers for the 50 years I've been back in the World, and had a couple before I went overseas. I have been a serious collector for about half of that time (25-30 years). During all those years, I've not had the opportunity to acquire a single example of a USAF marked revolver. They are out there, but I don't run across them.

So again, good luck in your quest.

[Babysitr]

Welcome to the forum from Illinois...I have a couple of 15's...love them, might want to start with 15's.....while looking for a USAF specific!

[richcory]

There are some really smart folks on here that have info to share on this subject. Welcome

Here's mine. Which now that I look at the photo is dark & not very good.

Cory

[Absalom]

I kicked loose some good contributions with this old thread from a few years ago:

Air Force .38 Revolvers

[deno56]

I picked this one up at a pawn shop 2 years ago.
Sorry I can't seem to get the pictures up right

[Engine49guy]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

While Im no expert in this variation I am a pretty big Model 15 fan.
Sadly I have never seen a USAF gun in person and in the last 11 years I only recall a few popping up on the forum.

Here are a few hints from my vague and fading memory,
The Air Force issued a few other S&W revolvers like the M-13 Aircrewman (The AF version of the Model 12) and its smaller J frame brother the "Baby" Air crewman (The AF version of the Model 37), there was also a 2" snub K target .38 revolver called the Model 56 (The AF cousin of the snub Model 15).
What is interesting is that they all have certain distinct features that make them slightly different than their civilian counterparts ,

While my memory could definitely be wrong IIRC the USAF 4" Model 15's were all standard production guns that's only unique feature was their left side USAF frame stamp,
(BTW as a result there are known fakes out there so be warned to make sure its legit before paying a huge premium on one you find).

The other thing that is sticking in my brain was a story I heard years ago somewhere that many of the retired USAF Model 15's were dumped in the ocean rather than sending them off to the CMP or foreign countries which might help explain why they don't pop up much.

Best of luck in your quest

[Chop]

Welcome to the forum. I have a 15-1 with just US marking on it. Figured it was Army but lettered to the USAF. Bought it in Atlanta about 25 years ago.

[triaxle]

I have a 15-2 target hammer , target trigger real close to this lettered gun serial number and time . I do not see USAF did they have them that are not marked ????????? Some AF guys I know say they had them without the stamp ?????

[Breakaway500]

This is a photo of the 15-2 my Dad carried in Vietnam.Although all the EX-PURTS say the target grips are not original, Dad says this is how he got it new, out of the crate at the armory before leaving to go overseas.(we were stationed in Georgia and the revolver letters as being sent there)


Being an officer he was "allowed" to return to the states with his revolver(and holster) even though all the EX-PURTS say that didn't happen either.


I tend to agree with my father...why would he lie??

Dad is 85,living in NH and retired a full Colonel.

[Thuer]

Welkom to the Forum. I am happy to own a model 15 U.S.A.F stamped. I did work for a gunshop in the Netherlands about 12 years ago. They had this revolver in stock. I bought it on first sight. I did know the rarity of this revolver. The later model 15 was given to me by someone who stopt collecting and shooting. Both revolvers are in my collection.

[Black Knight]

Welcome to the forum. The 15 was standard issue for more than just the Air Force. Many police and sheriff's departments issued them as well. One big department that comes to mind is LAPD. Police and sheriff marked 15s may be more plentiful than the Air Force models. Either way enjoy your search. Best of luck.

[UncleEd]

I believe the Model 15 was officially
the USAF sidearm from 1963 to 1993.

An Army major I worked with in 1963
commented approvingly of the AF's
choice. He didn't like the 1911 though
he was with the MPs.

A number of posters on this forum reported
that when they encountered them in the
service many were pretty beat up.

And as I recall, some have been used right
up to now by the AF for training dog units
as you can repeat a training blank shot
with a revolver
more easily than with a 92 or Sig.

[DWalt]

Finding a M15 with USAF markings would be a difficult challenge, as I doubt many, if any, were released for legal sale. My guess that those out there were probably purloined at one time. When I was at the USAF gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB, I had the unpleasant duty of essentially demilling a half-dozen M15s, making them inert so they could be carried in holsters of Honor Guards. Mainly, it involved welding up the guts and plugging barrels. In fact, I wrote the official procedure for M15 inerting. I may still have it somewhere and if I can find it, I will post it here.

When I was at the gunsmith shop, I know that there were quite a few USAF M15s in inventory at Anniston Army Depot. I imagine they have been fed to Captain Crunch by now. At the time I was involved, the dog handlers at the Lackland Mutt School were using them for firing blanks for dog training.

[ordnanceguy]

Originally Posted by vistafjord

My question: I'd like to learn more about USAF-issued S&Ws, especially the M15s with the USAF stamp on the frame. I would appreciate any pointers to good references, posts or dealers that specialize in these USAF wheel guns so that I can learn more. David

Hello David:

Welcome to the Forum and to the S&WCA. You have come to the right places for information on the Air Force S&Ws. I, too, have always had a soft spot for S&Ws issued to the Air Force.

A good starting point for you would be to take a look at the article published in the Spring 2011 issue of the S&WCA Journal entitled "Military Masterpieces". It was authored by member Kevin Williams who is also a frequent contributor here on the Forum.

[Texas Star]

All I saw had the target hammer and trigger. I read that Gen. LeMay thought that assisted handling them in cold weather. I really prefer the std. H&T in that model.

Most had four-inch barrels, and you can see that in Viet war photos of pilots, inc. at least one of famed fighter pilot Col. Robin Olds.

The snubs were often used by SAC missile crews. This Model 56 (AF term) differed from civilian M-15 snubs by having a dull gray sighting surface in lieu of the grooved M-15. I think all four inch guns were identical to civilian guns with target H&T, other than U.S.A.F. marking.

The most common holster was a swivel model. Many of us bought our own, and no one where I served cared, or usually even noticed. I especially liked Safariland's Model 29 holster.

Due to shortages, we also had many former Navy Victory Model .38's. I think those were phased out by ca. 1970, as Combat Masterpiece deliveries matched demand.

If you want a collection of former USAF Combat Masterpieces, your collection will be very small. Even if you could find many, only two models exist! Well, if you add those refreshed by AF arsenals in Parkerizing, that's a third variant.

[DWalt]

On the topic of M15s, this is the special ammunition made for the USAF which was issued for use in the M15.

[CALREB]

I bought one over 35 years ago at the academy gunshop. 115.00, a year or
two later the hammer stud broke. At the time I didn't think it was worth repairing so I took the internal parts out and stuffed it into a box or somewhere. ONE day maybe it will show up and I can get it fixed. I bought one stamped LASD at the same time and still have it. I did alter it a bit some years ago.

[vistafjord]

Originally Posted by ordnanceguy

Hello David:

Welcome to the Forum and to the S&WCA. You have come to the right places for information on the Air Force S&Ws. I, too, have always had a soft spot for S&Ws issued to the Air Force.

A good starting point for you would be to take a look at the article published in the Spring 2011 issue of the S&WCA Journal entitled "Military Masterpieces". It was authored by member Kevin Williams who is also a frequent contributor here on the Forum.

Thanks for the referral to the articles and thank you to all who responded!

[triaxle]

I do not think all were marked USAF ,what would the serial number range be on them .

[bgrafsr]

I have had a couple of the U.S.A.F Model 15's. I still have this one. The Target stocks are not original. I do have the original Magna stocks also.

[triaxle]

My 15-2 is K51792x target hammer and trigger ,magna grips with diamond.

[CH4]

While serving as an SP (81132) I carried a 4” M15. The USAF transitioned to the M9 shortly after I finished my hitch.

[Darreld Walton]

I was a Minuteman ICBM maintenance type, and carried 4" Model 15's for the six years I was active duty. Ours wore a variety of hammers, triggers, sights, and grips. The ones our maintenance squadron had in inventory were mostly TT/TH/RRFS/TG. Carried them in a black holster on a web belt.
Worked as a USAF Civilian for another 24 years, and saw the 15's replaced with M9's very quickly after they were accepted.
Just prior to retiring in 2007, I worked as an Item Manager, and in an idle moment, checked on the NSN assigned to those revolvers. At that time (10-07), they showed a 'significant' number still in inventory/storage.
Would be nice if the USAF would transfer those weapons to the Civilian Marksmanship Program and be released along with those 1911's they're selling to qualified purchasers. Would love to put one next to the 1911 type that I carried in the ANG.

[Pig Hunter]

There were 2 short barrel 38's with each missile crew. I only saw them in holsters. They were supposed to wear them but usually hung on the ends of the console. As both officers had to push there "go" buttons at the same time, if one went rouge the other could shoot the offender. The buttons were far enough apart it was impossible for one person to push both. The ultimate no lone zone. In the early 80's the 2 man SP teams guarding 3-5 Titans carried full auto Colts marked AR-15. These and ammo were to be locked up when in the Command Center.

[OldChief]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to say that USAF stamped M-15s are extremely hard to find. I was a Small Arms Tech. during a good part of the 60s and I know that most of the hand guns we turned in (1911s, Mod 10s and 15s) were demilled by cutting them in half with a torch. The revolvers were cut from the top of the frame, through the cylinders and the bottom of the frame.

[18robert]

fyi-- i was in nam from mid 64 to end of june 65,air force. yup almost 13 months. i was flight crew ( loadmaster ). i carried a old model 10, a model 15 and a . 45 at different times. i remember looking in the armory hut and seeing racks of new model 15's. i was at bien hoa,which was a small place at that time,unlike a year or two later. i also ran a m60 when the vc came knocking on our door often back then, sat cong.....

[bgrafsr]

Originally Posted by 18robert

fyi-- i was in nam from mid 64 to end of june 65,air force. yup almost 13 months. i was flight crew ( loadmaster ). i carried a old model 10, a model 15 and a . 45 at different times. i remember looking in the armory hut and seeing racks of new model 15's. i was at bien hoa,which was a small place at that time,unlike a year or two later. i also ran a m60 when the vc came knocking on our door often back then, sat cong.....

I was TDY to Bien Hoa from 31Oct64 to sometime in Feb. 65. Was in Air Police, but I carried the then new to us full auto
AR15.

[Leroy Thompson]

One other USAF S&W not mentioned were 3" Chiefs Specials with banana grips carried by OSI. I believe a lot of the Model 15s that are in collections were transferred to police departments at some point in the past.

[Taj]

Originally Posted by Black Knight

Welcome to the forum. The 15 was standard issue for more than just the Air Force. Many police and sheriff's departments issued them as well. One big department that comes to mind is LAPD. Police and sheriff marked 15s may be more plentiful than the Air Force models. Either way enjoy your search. Best of luck.

LAPD had a ton of S&W revolvers, maybe two tons. I was the LE rep when LAPD decided it was time to get those guns out of their armory. According to LA's policy they had to go back to the factory so we made a deal with them to give them so much in value towards gun parts for their armory inventory. I picked those guns up late one afternoon in my S&W/Ghost Buster's van. Man! I didn't realize I had to take them all at once or I'd have brought a bigger truck. They were all in manila envelopes boxed in plastic bins. The springs on the van were bottomed out and I couldn't see out the back window. I had great fears that I'd lose control, roll the van and there would be "LAPD" marked K frames all over the I-5 freeway. I had to verify S# and inventory those guns so I had to touch everyone of them. Most were pretty rough and many had been sand blasted and reblued. All had been "neutered" --single action sear ground off. There were some weird guns in the mix including some 4" ???model 14s and some 6" model 15s. There were some nicer guns but they were few and far between. Some were marked "LAPD" and some were not.

[Taj]

Welcome to the forum! I'm a retired Air Force bum and have been looking for a USAF marked model 15 for some time. Aircrew in VN could check out a handgun if you wanted one and the few times I did, it was a model 15 and sometimes a model 10. I did see some Aircrew models but the "Ocifers" usually hung onto those. They are hard to come by.

[shooter1450]

Welcome. Looking forward to witnessing the storm you’ve stirred up about something dear to me. I was an AF Security Policeman and Armorer AFSC81150 from 1981-85. The M-15 was my sidearm while working the armory in Plattsburgh NY. I have the scar on my right forearm to prove it from the target hammer. I was responsible for just shy of 200 Combat Masterpieces with about 90% of them being parkerized. I have not seen any of this variation since.

[flagman1776]

My 2" M56, presumed USAF issue since it's in the AF serial block... has only a faint single line U. S. engraved on the back strap. The M56 very close to the M15 with all the "Special Features" match.

[charlie sherrill]

For years the Mississippi Game and Fish didn't carry sidearms. I don't remember exactly when, maybe early 70's, they started carrying model 15 USAF surplus that were given to them by whoever. They eventually started carrying new bottom feeders and the old 15's showed up at a gun auction near Hattiesburg, Ms. that I was working security for. They were all marked "USAF" with some three or four digit numbers. These things were so badly beat up from AF use and then "Possum Police" use that most of them barely brought $100.00 in auction prices. The auction was only open to FFL's and I couldn't bid. I discussed them on this forum at the time. Maybe somebody can find that thread.

[GaryV2]

Welcome to the forum. Your post brought back memories of a previous life. Our survival gear included S&W Combat Masterpiece with 17 rounds of ammo w/6 tracer rounds. Still have my AF form 629 Small Arms Receipt that I turned in each time weapon was issued (.38 Cal. Pistol Cmbt Masterpiece). I was a bomb nav tech on B-52-D's in SEA flying out of U-Tapao Thailand. Have not seen an actual AF issue for sale, but I have seen fakes.

[Daniel Howe]

rotated a couple pictures for your viewing pleasure.