Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-13-2020, 07:39 PM
Dvus Dvus is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 263
Likes: 2
Liked 653 Times in 134 Posts
Default Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.

So today I had to meet an ATF Special Agent to hand over a beautiful S serial numbered model 58 that I purchased a few months back at a local gun store. Apparently it was used in a cop on cop murder in Chicago back in 1966. It disappeared directly afterwards and was traced through a dealer to a man who "lost it in a lake while fishing" until it popped when I did my paperwork, 54 years later. Originally it belonged to a cop who came home and found his wife in bed with another cop. Now the chances of ever getting it back are over next to the frozen hell border. Now that I know the guns history, however tarnished, it just makes me want it back more. The gun store at least stepped up and refunded my money on a gift card.
It just goes to show, it doesn't matter where you buy your guns, you can still get one with a checkered past.

BTW... I DID remove the stocks before I turned it over to the agent.
Attached Thumbnails
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-20200512_205930-jpg   Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-20200513_231515-jpg  

Last edited by Dvus; 05-14-2020 at 02:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 93 Users Like Post:
28Shooter, 2ndshift, 31FordA, 686-380, 75Vette, 78bagger, ancient-one, Andy Taylor, beagleye, BillyMagg, black88331, bruce5781, buckaroo1236, CajunBass, Cal44, CH4, Chevelle69, cndrdk, Collects, CordWood, Dave.357, deyomatic, dr. mordo, DR505, Erich, federali, Frangible, GerSan69, gnystrom, gsapatka, Guero, gwpercle, hkcavalier, hotshot357, Hunter Keith, IronSkillet, Jack Flash, JH1951, john in mich, JohnRippert, jrm53, jscheck, Kurusu, les.b, Lewel, llowry61, loknload, lrrifleman, M E Morrison, mbliss57, michael1000, mikerjf, mscook, Muley Gil, NavySCPO, Nedroe, Old Seabee, Oracle, Ozark Marine, ParadiseRoad, Porkie, quinn, R.J. in Phoenix, ramble392, Recusant, RobertJ., robertrwalsh, robrossk, Rudi, Russell Cottle, Rusty parrot, rwt1405, S&WIowegan, S-W4EVER, sbachler, sekiarcdr, SFIDEC, shoot back, shorty40, sigp220.45, Skeptic 9c, squidsix, stansdds, SuperMan, Technique, usmc2427765, Valmet, veeklog1, vipermd, wetdog1911, Whisper, woden, Zebra War Wagon
  #2  
Old 05-13-2020, 07:46 PM
Sistema1927's Avatar
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: "Land of Disenchantment"
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 1,278
Liked 3,401 Times in 1,034 Posts
Default

Didn't that case have its final disposition some time ago? If so, then why would the ATF (or anyone else for that matter) still be looking for it?
__________________
Only a cold warrior
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-13-2020, 07:48 PM
jrm53 jrm53 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rogers Arkansas
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 2,100
Liked 783 Times in 332 Posts
Default

I wonder what tipped them off to the fact that you had bought it, when I had a FFL the only way the ATF could get your records was if you quit and sent them to them, of if they were looking at your records to check up on somebody or got a gun and they ran the numbers and it came up that you had sold it, I would like to know the story but we never will. I know after thinking a bit that when they called to get the OK to sell they must have gave the serial number and that was the way they caught it. If you had a CCW they would not of had to be called for an OK. Jeff

Last edited by jrm53; 05-13-2020 at 07:54 PM. Reason: More info
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:03 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,841
Likes: 6,715
Liked 18,298 Times in 6,027 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm53 View Post
I wonder what tipped them off to the fact that you had bought it, when I had a FFL the only way the ATF could get your records was if you quit and sent them to them, of if they were looking at your records to check up on somebody or got a gun and they ran the numbers and it came up that you had sold it, I would like to know the story but we never will. I know after thinking a bit that when they called to get the OK to sell they must have gave the serial number and that was the way they caught it. If you had a CCW they would not of had to be called for an OK. Jeff
Depends on the state law where he resides and did the purchase. Some places, CCW or not has nothing to do with FFL transfers, and guns are always run through NCIC. I‘ve had a CCW in Oregon for 31 years now, and I‘ve had two transfers (both GB purchases from out of state) get hung up on theft reports.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:04 PM
22hipower 22hipower is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 3,504
Liked 3,889 Times in 1,055 Posts
Default

There must be a lot more to that story. Curious how it came to the attention of the ATF at this late date.

Some years ago I bought an older S&W revolver at a pawn shop and got a call a week or so later from the local police wanting me to bring it in. Apparently pawn shop inventory, in Texas anyway, is checked by local police and SNs are run against whatever database they have. This one popped as having been used in the shooting of a policeman in NY.

Turned out to be a mistake though as the shop had recorded the assembly number as the SN instead of the actual SN (pachmayer grips covered the butt). It was the assembly number which happened to match the NY gun's SN. Took me awhile to convince the local police that was the situation but ended up leaving with the gun. As far as I know the local police don't check LGS inventory but perhaps in some places they do?

Jeff
SWCA #1457
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:06 PM
bamabiker bamabiker is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near Birmingham
Posts: 6,484
Likes: 3,670
Liked 5,540 Times in 1,628 Posts
Default

I would have gave it to him but not with those grips. It would be wearing some rubbers.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:06 PM
LPD256's Avatar
LPD256 LPD256 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 868
Likes: 6,783
Liked 2,247 Times in 640 Posts
Default

I wish you would’ve sent me the grips. I would have traded you some crappy Magnas that came with mine.
__________________
SWCA 3255 SWHF 615
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:15 PM
Rudi Rudi is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,003
Likes: 3,325
Liked 4,681 Times in 1,463 Posts
Default

How did the ATF contact you? Where did you meet? A strange tale for sure.
__________________
No baby we aint
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:20 PM
ParadiseRoad ParadiseRoad is offline
Suspended
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,817
Likes: 17,075
Liked 39,783 Times in 7,852 Posts
Default

...I have a Colt Police Positive Special from 1919 with a couple of notches in the grips...

...always made me wonder...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:23 PM
Bladeswitcher Bladeswitcher is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 11
Liked 362 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower View Post
There must be a lot more to that story. Curious how it came to the attention of the ATF at this late date.

Some years ago I bought an older S&W revolver at a pawn shop and got a call a week or so later from the local police wanting me to bring it in. Apparently pawn shop inventory, in Texas anyway, is checked by local police and SNs are run against whatever database they have. This one popped as having been used in the shooting of a policeman in NY . . .

I had a pawnshop for eight years. In that time, I had three guns get flagged by the police. They found them because pawnshops in my state are required to report all their buys and pawns to database. That database gets checked against the hot list.

FWIW, the circumstances of my three hits were:

1.) A Ruger Security Six that I bought from my alarm company technician (straight arrow kind of guy). The gun had been reported stolen in another state back in the 1980s. The detective that contacted me did some more checking and discovered the victim had long since died and he had no information about heirs. He dropped the whole thing and removed the gun from the hot list.
2.) Bought a S&W 686 from a housewife type customer. After I sold the gun to a cop from a nearby town, the local cops contacted me and said the gun once belonged to one of their retired cops, who had reported it stolen. It turned out to be a mistake. The woman who sold me the gun was his widow. Apparently, the gun had been "found" at some point. They let it go and last I heard, the gun was cleared from the stolen list.
3.) Took a Marlin .30-30 in on trade from the ex-wife of a fellow pawnbroker in town. Cops said it was one of about a half dozen guns taken in a recent burglary. Turns out my pawnbroker friend bought a bunch of guns from a guy in a bar. Gave this one to his ex-old lady so she could trade it for a handgun. Cops took the gun and I was S.O.L. My "friend" said he would make it up to me, but never did. Eventually, his wife brought in some gold to sell and she asked 'whatever happened with that gun?" I told her that her ex stiffed me. She gave me the gold to square it all up (her idea). Everybody was cool after that. I think my friend rolled on the guy who sold him the guns and he got arrested. Never heard anything more than that.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:24 PM
ggibson511960 ggibson511960 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 430
Likes: 398
Liked 354 Times in 187 Posts
Default

In the words of a famous government official, "After all these years, what difference does it make?" Common sense indicates the ATF wouldn't go the trouble of storing or destroying the firearm. Its very existence in private hands decades later adds nothing to the common good, unless the ATF wants to use every excuse to get every last firearm possible out of private hands, and I don't think that's true.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:27 PM
Dieseltech56's Avatar
Dieseltech56 Dieseltech56 is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 1,395
Likes: 1,263
Liked 2,226 Times in 784 Posts
Default

I can’t help but wonder what would be the purpose of retrieving a gun that was used in a crime 54 years ago. I’m sure the case has long since been closed. Will charges be brought against the guy who traded it in? If not this seems like a waste of taxpayer money
__________________
-Matt
SWCA #3306
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:41 PM
Bladeswitcher Bladeswitcher is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 11
Liked 362 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseltech56 View Post
I can’t help but wonder what would be the purpose of retrieving a gun that was used in a crime 54 years ago. I’m sure the case has long since been closed. Will charges be brought against the guy who traded it in? If not this seems like a waste of taxpayer money
This may sound like a stupid question, but what business is it of the ATF's? What federal law is involved here? Isn't stolen property a state crime? Isn't murder a state crime? How is this in the ATF's jurisdiction? Aren't they supposed to be tracking down NFA violations, busting the chops of license holders and making sure people "engaged in business" pony up for a license?
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:45 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 17,464
Liked 18,740 Times in 3,029 Posts
Default

Its probably been in NCIC this whole time, and nobody ever ran it. It popped up, they got it, and you got your money back. Who knows if the guy was ever charged, is dead, in prison working an appeal, or what. Doesn’t really matter. Its a murder gun and will work its way back to the murder police.
__________________
Ramblers - lets get ramblin’.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:48 PM
Benton Quest Benton Quest is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 140
Likes: 68
Liked 175 Times in 70 Posts
Default

It seems like NCIC is forever...

When it pops, they have to do something.

And, we don't know the case is closed....this could be what they need to wrap it up.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:51 PM
Iggy's Avatar
Iggy Iggy is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,980
Likes: 7,549
Liked 23,983 Times in 4,792 Posts
Default

Statistics. Government agencies live on statistics.
__________________
Eccentric old coot.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:05 PM
texmex texmex is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 558
Likes: 217
Liked 865 Times in 282 Posts
Default

Kudos to your LGS for refunding the money.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:06 PM
Charlie Foxtrott Charlie Foxtrott is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 649
Likes: 143
Liked 854 Times in 318 Posts
Default It sounds a little unusual to me.

In VA when they run the background check on you with the VA state police. They do not submit the serial number of the gun. Only the type of gun that it is. Handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Interesting.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:11 PM
hogblue hogblue is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: S.W. Missouri
Posts: 257
Likes: 70
Liked 320 Times in 94 Posts
Default

Well if the OP doesn’t live in Illinois it travelled in interstate commerce thus giving ATF jurisdiction in retrieving it. Also if the one who “lost it in the lake fishing” is still alive the 58 is still evidence in a homicide and the individual could be facing charges for tampering with evidence in that case. Don’t believe there are any statutes of limitations regarding such things in homicide cases. Cajun can please step in and correct me if I’m wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:33 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 17,464
Liked 18,740 Times in 3,029 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrott View Post
In VA when they run the background check on you with the VA state police. They do not submit the serial number of the gun. Only the type of gun that it is. Handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Interesting.
Many police departments have details that run serial numbers from guns sold in pawnshops and gunstores. They may have run this one well after the fact and it rang the bell. ATF stops at the store, looks at the 4473, then do a knock and talk. Bye bye gun.
__________________
Ramblers - lets get ramblin’.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:46 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 9,992
Likes: 48
Liked 11,709 Times in 2,934 Posts
Default

Is the case still open? Somebody report it stolen?
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-13-2020, 09:47 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 9,992
Likes: 48
Liked 11,709 Times in 2,934 Posts
Default

Should have taken off the stocks before surrendering.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:00 PM
F224 F224 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Runnells, Iowa, USA
Posts: 189
Likes: 63
Liked 214 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Electronic 4473's...
__________________
Captain Dave Funk
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:02 PM
xfarfuldog xfarfuldog is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 265
Likes: 64
Liked 159 Times in 73 Posts
Default

About 4 years ago I had a 45 caliber Glock stolen in a burglary. Two years later a detective from the local police called to advise me it had been recovered at a crack house in Dayton. A joint FBI Dayton task force raid recovered it. The Glock was not used in a crime, it was just in the drug house. The local detective advised it would be awhile before I could recover it.

I waited over 3 years and got no further response. Last summer I went to the local PD, got the report and went to Dayton records. Records told me that they had turned the Glock over to the FBI after their case was finished. A DPD detective called me the next day and said he would check with the Feds. A day later the DPD guy called to say the case had been adjudicated. The Glock was turned over to the US Marshalls and destroyed.

I could not understand why the Marshalls office was involved in the destruction and not ATFE. The local PD took the gun off of LEADS and Dayton did not advise the FBI that it was stolen. The detective said I could file a complaint with their office. Being an ex LEO I would not do that. I was reimbursed by my insurance company less my deductible. But that model 21 was particularly sweet.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:20 PM
Golphin's Avatar
Golphin Golphin is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Micanopy Florida
Posts: 333
Likes: 1,122
Liked 390 Times in 156 Posts
Default

I am amazed that a gun from 60 years ago was even in the computer system. Here in Florida guns sold to gun shops and pawn shops are run through the local PD and they would come get it if it showed as stolen.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:30 PM
torizus's Avatar
torizus torizus is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 421
Likes: 898
Liked 422 Times in 187 Posts
Default

In Chicago bout 5 years or so ago, a gun or two were recovered after a couple street shootings and as it turned out, both were at an earlier time, recovered,inventoried and subsequently ordered for destruction by the court.

As it turned out,they were way more than two and my guess is that 58 may have been one of them
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:32 PM
lamarw lamarw is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lake Martin, Alabama
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 1,376
Liked 2,188 Times in 609 Posts
Default

This is an enjoyable to read thread, although not enjoyable for the OP.

Nine years ago, I purchased a Marlin .17 HMR as a LE trade-in from a major distributor of LE firearms and equipment. I was called by the distributor approximately 3 months later requesting I return the firearm since the police department needed it back.

The rifle came with mounts for but no scope. I had purchased a scope and zeroed it in. I returned it minus mount and scope. I was able to replace it with a NIB Marlin Model 917V at no cost to me. The new rifle was a higher grade and far more expensive than the price I paid for the well used returned rifle. The mount and scope went on the new rifle. I have no idea why it was needed back, and this thread gives me some ideas.

I came out of it smelling like a very sweet rose.

Last edited by lamarw; 05-13-2020 at 10:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:47 PM
LostintheOzone's Avatar
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WA.
Posts: 3,000
Likes: 2,763
Liked 2,834 Times in 1,379 Posts
Default

Not buying this story. Sorry.
__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 05-13-2020 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:58 PM
ken158 ken158 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,430
Likes: 891
Liked 2,523 Times in 1,136 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladeswitcher View Post
This may sound like a stupid question, but what business is it of the ATF's? What federal law is involved here? Isn't stolen property a state crime? Isn't murder a state crime? How is this in the ATF's jurisdiction? Aren't they supposed to be tracking down NFA violations, busting the chops of license holders and making sure people "engaged in business" pony up for a license?
ATF had jurisdiction because it went through a licensed dealer.
__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:13 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 17,464
Liked 18,740 Times in 3,029 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xfarfuldog View Post
I could not understand why the Marshalls office was involved in the destruction and not ATFE. The local PD took the gun off of LEADS and Dayton did not advise the FBI that it was stolen. The detective said I could file a complaint with their office. Being an ex LEO I would not do that. I was reimbursed by my insurance company less my deductible. But that model 21 was particularly sweet.
The Marshal’s Service is the federal agency in overall charge of forfeitures. Your Glock was probably turned over to them when the case was adjudicated and they did what they do. Its just another widget at that point.
__________________
Ramblers - lets get ramblin’.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:16 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,841
Likes: 6,715
Liked 18,298 Times in 6,027 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrott View Post
In VA when they run the background check on you with the VA state police. They do not submit the serial number of the gun. Only the type of gun that it is. Handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Interesting.
To repeat what I said above: State law.

By your description, VA state police only run the Brady check, which is federal and checks only the buyer, not the specific gun.

But quite a few states have added their own background check requirements to the minimum, usually an NCIC check of the gun in addition to the NICS check on the person.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:28 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 714
Liked 2,700 Times in 709 Posts
Default

I got a call recently from the local Sheriffs Department questioning me about a handgun I had purchased from a Pawn Shop. I had since sold the gun. The deputy said the gun was stolen 5-6 years ago. The victim at that time could not locate the serial numbers of the guns that were stolen. When cleaning up a few months ago, he found the list he had made of all his serial numbers and contacted the Sheriffs Department which immediately posted them on NCIC and mine was a hit showing it had been bought and sold by a local Pawn Shop. The crook had confessed to the crime and the deputy said they didn't need the gun for evidence, but would like to have it just as icing on the cake. I could not remember the guys name I sold it to and was just told if I ever did remember to contact them, which would mean that they would take the gun, I would have to refund the money received and then go to the Pawn Shop and hope they would refund my money etc. The Pawn Shop would wind up being the one out of their money and that really wouldn't be fair since when they bought the gun, it had not been reported stolen. The only recourse for the Pawn Shop would be to file a judgement against the thief and of course would never see one dollar. The deputy said if I didn't remember, it really was not a problem since they had him and everybody involved was happy.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:32 PM
Dvus Dvus is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 263
Likes: 2
Liked 653 Times in 134 Posts
Default

The gun was popped because the serial # was reported by the local gun store, as is common practice when the forms are filed electronically. The store purchased a collection of 4 old Smiths from a widow in an Oklahoma City suburb.
The victim of course, and the suspect are both deceased in this case. It is a cold case that has never been closed because the murder weapon was never found to match to the recovered bullet. When the serial # popped, the ATF notified Chicago authorities who then reactivated the cold case and submitted a request to the ATF to recover the gun for ballistic testing. The search started after the crime was commited, the suspect told investigators that he had sold the gun to a local dealer. The dealer then said that he sold it to another individual. That individual told investigators that it fell into a lake while out in a boat fishing. As I know now, that was a real fish story, because the gun doesn't look like it has spent the last 54 years, or even 54 minutes, in the water.

The ATF agent involved was a very nice and professional individual and was very sympathetic to my predicament. He felt bad about having to take a rare Smith away from me. We had a pleasant long talk about this and other things unrelated.

And to those concerned, I REMOVED AND KEPT THE STOCKS. I figure I can sell them and maybe recover a little compensation for "pain and suffering."
Attached Thumbnails
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-20200513_231550-jpg   Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-20200513_231515-jpg  

Last edited by Dvus; 05-14-2020 at 12:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:53 PM
HardToHandle HardToHandle is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 195
Likes: 1,460
Liked 262 Times in 118 Posts
Default

DVUS, thanks for the interesting posts and the all the details. At least you got a good story out of the whole thing.

It was mentioned earlier, but Chicago was a key term for me. They’ve had some police evidence show back up at the wrong places over the years. A cop on cop murder and missing evidence might get noticed, even if way past it’s prime.

The Feds also seem to really hammer them every few years or so, making some big show about fighting corruption. Frankly Chicagoland seems to have cleaned up its act - The last two Governors have not been indicted (yet). Blago, three Governors back, got Trump to commute his federal corruption sentence a few months ago.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-13-2020, 11:58 PM
hogblue hogblue is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: S.W. Missouri
Posts: 257
Likes: 70
Liked 320 Times in 94 Posts
Default

And now you know the rest of the story, Paul Harvey, GOOD DAY!
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 05-14-2020, 12:43 AM
CALREB's Avatar
CALREB CALREB is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RE-tired in Texas
Posts: 803
Likes: 87
Liked 753 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Three times during my time working in the armory, I handled calls from different divisions vice units. The units called to check serial numbers on model 67s that were in hock at pawn shops. All three times the guns were issued service weapons. "City property. "
I had to laugh one time when the Sgt calling was advised, yes it's a city gun issued to so and so, his reply was " !!@! him this is the third time he has hocked his city gun. One guys defense was , that since he had bought his own beretta, he thought he could sell his old gun.

Last edited by CALREB; 05-14-2020 at 12:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 05-14-2020, 01:11 AM
S-W4EVER S-W4EVER is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 416
Likes: 1,532
Liked 346 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Just another of the many reasons to not covet your neighbor’s wife... and it goes double for LE.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:44 AM
Farmer17 Farmer17 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 3,936
Likes: 726
Liked 4,105 Times in 1,657 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
So today I had to meet an ATF Special Agent to hand over a beautiful S serial numbered model 58 that I purchased a few months back at a local gun store. Apparently it was used in a cop on cop murder in Chicago back in 1966. It disappeared directly afterwards and was traced through a dealer to a man who "lost it in a lake while fishing" until it popped when I did my paperwork, 54 years later. Originally it belonged to a cop who came home and found his wife in bed with another cop. Now the chances of ever getting it back are over next to the frozen hell border. Now that I know the guns history, however tarnished, it just makes me want it back more. The gun store at least stepped up and refunded my money on a gift card.
It just goes to show, it doesn't matter where you buy your guns, you can still get one with a checkered past.
The most amazing part to me is that the gun is an ex cop gun and it changed hands so many times over half a century and is still in such excellent condition. I was born a few years before that gun was and I wish I was in that good of shape.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #39  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:15 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,993
Likes: 2,599
Liked 13,684 Times in 2,412 Posts
Default

Looks like we all must have concern for guns we bought or traded for years or decades ago. Included before 1968.
I bought a 4” square butt Model 34 Kit Gun in 1983 at a pawn shop for $189. Shot it for about a month until the store called and said it was stolen. They took it but gave me $450 store credit. I bought the 4 3/4” nickel Colt SAA .357 they had for that exact price. Traded it a little later for a 1958 7 1/2” nickel Colt SAA .45. I loved the Kit Gun but chose a Model 18 to replace it. A very wise choice, if I do say so myself. Still have it and the .45.

Last edited by Wyatt Burp; 05-14-2020 at 09:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:52 AM
josywales josywales is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 385
Likes: 8
Liked 261 Times in 132 Posts
Default

The murder is a cold case, but what about the guy who lied about the gun falling in the lake? Maybe they're chasing him down, with the new evidence.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:56 AM
Mike0251's Avatar
Mike0251 Mike0251 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Virginia Blue Ridge
Posts: 164
Likes: 189
Liked 248 Times in 91 Posts
Default

In the year 2000 I had a notice in my mailbox that a registered letter awaits me at the post office. Really I thought? After going up and showing proper identification and signing, I got it.

This is a scan of said letter. I apologize as its a little washed out for so many years as it still resides in my safe to this day.
Couple of salient points, notice the purchase date, 1993, and the letter date January 2000. And they found me the owner from a 1993 transaction.

Now the rest of the story: I was shocked when I read this, ran back to my safe and the gun is still there. *** is going on. So as I calmed down and reread carefully I found the issue! Serial number in letter was listed as 0000X (I only hid the last digit, the zeros are correct). I own 00000X not 0000X!! Whoa...lol. So I call that Sheriff's dept and ask for an email addy so I can respond. The deputy tells me we don't have email here yet! Ok really now? So I draft a letter back telling them there error and that I still had 00000X in my possession and included a photo of the serial number. Sent it back registered mail too. Never heard another thing.

I still have this firearm in my safe I might add. Cost me $85 new in 1993 and have the receipt as well. By the way the last digit is a 7. Pretty cool I think. And looks like "they" can find you too anytime.
Attached Thumbnails
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-2020-05-14_7-34-20-jpg   Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-2020-05-14_7-30-33-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:19 AM
Bladeswitcher Bladeswitcher is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 11
Liked 362 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike0251 View Post
I still have this firearm in my safe I might add. Cost me $85 new in 1993 and have the receipt as well . . . looks like "they" can find you too anytime.
If you bought the gun new, it's a pretty simple matter to trace the gun from manufacturer to distributor to FFL to customer. It gets much more complicated when there's a subsequent resale. Once the gun changes hands between unlicensed persons the trail goes cold unless the non-FFLs keep good records and are willing to share them.

The FEDERAL/ATF system does not have registry of who owns what gun. Those records exist only in the form of old 4473 forms turning to dust in file cabinets and boxes at the premises of thousands of FFLs. That said, some states do register guns. Also, records from closed gun shops go into storage at ATF's out-of-business records center.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #43  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:23 AM
Mike0251's Avatar
Mike0251 Mike0251 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Virginia Blue Ridge
Posts: 164
Likes: 189
Liked 248 Times in 91 Posts
Default

That is correct!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:48 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 7,047
Likes: 3,564
Liked 15,825 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default

The 4473 stays at the point of transfer FFL. If it is a new gun they can trace it by contacting manufacture, then distributor then receiving FFL. Also if a gun has always been transferred by a FFL they could trace it from FFL to FFL to FFL to final owner. If at some point it sold or gifted via privat parties then the BATF would have to find last buyer via FFL and ask him what he did with it. There is no federal law requiring a record of a private sale or a law saying you must remember. Lying and saying you lost it in a boating accident would be probably be felony. Knowingly giving false information to a federal agent is a crime. Having a bad memory is not.

Many states, counties or cities have laws requiring pawnshops to turn over a list of all or certain things that they take in. I suppose some places might require that of gun dealers also.

I have heard the stolen gun list is full of problems. Incorrectly recorded serial numbers, things like the K at the beginning of a serial number left off. People recording the assembly number instead of actual serial number, use of the same serial numbers by different manufactures, plus prior to 1968 a manufacture could use the same serial number on different models like S&W once did.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:53 AM
Jack Flash's Avatar
Jack Flash Jack Flash is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,218
Likes: 24,647
Liked 8,706 Times in 3,190 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer17 View Post
The most amazing part to me is that the gun is an ex cop gun and it changed hands so many times over half a century and is still in such excellent condition. I was born a few years before that gun was and I wish I was in that good of shape.
As I read the OP, it was the cop's personal firearm, not his department-issued service revolver. I don't think the Chicago PD ever issued M58s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddietruett View Post
I got a call recently from the local Sheriffs Department questioning me about a handgun I had purchased from a Pawn Shop. I had since sold the gun. The deputy said the gun was stolen 5-6 years ago. The victim at that time could not locate the serial numbers of the guns that were stolen. When cleaning up a few months ago, he found the list he had made of all his serial numbers and contacted the Sheriffs Department which immediately posted them on NCIC and mine was a hit showing it had been bought and sold by a local Pawn Shop. The crook had confessed to the crime and the deputy said they didn't need the gun for evidence, but would like to have it just as icing on the cake. I could not remember the guys name I sold it to and was just told if I ever did remember to contact them, which would mean that they would take the gun, I would have to refund the money received and then go to the Pawn Shop and hope they would refund my money etc. The Pawn Shop would wind up being the one out of their money and that really wouldn't be fair since when they bought the gun, it had not been reported stolen. The only recourse for the Pawn Shop would be to file a judgement against the thief and of course would never see one dollar. The deputy said if I didn't remember, it really was not a problem since they had him and everybody involved was happy.
I'll bet the guy it was originally stolen from wasn't any too happy. I guess you could argue it was his own lack of organization that caused this result, but still he's screwed. As you said, not a snowball's chance in hell the thief will pay him a cent.
__________________
They lack our altruism.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:09 AM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 3,985
Liked 4,582 Times in 2,269 Posts
Default

Computers never forget ...once a name and/or number goes in ...
It's there forever .

I had a revolver stolen in Baton Rouge , La.
25 years later it is recovered at a Pawn Shop in Kingman , Arizona .
The computer had it listed as stolen and they returned it to me .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:28 AM
model48mag model48mag is offline
SWCA Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 32
Likes: 7
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Isn't it still an ATFE rule that after a period of time, 10 years rings a bell, an FFL can purge a 4473? seems to me I remember that fact. Just curious.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:34 AM
s&wchad's Avatar
s&wchad s&wchad is offline
Moderator
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Great Lakes State
Posts: 21,483
Likes: 5,395
Liked 12,370 Times in 2,857 Posts
Default

Bummer that you had to surrender the gun. I suspect it was listed as stolen and will be turned into a manhole cover! As others have said, you should have swapped the stocks with a set of pachmayrs.

I bought a beautiful Flattop Ruger Blackhawk .44 from a friend in March of this year. My friend is in his 80's and purchased the gun used back in the mid-1980's. Michigan has handgun registration, so I dropped off the paperwork at my local PD.

A few days later, I received a call from Kathy in the PD records department (a very nice lady who knows me well). She informed me the Ruger Blackhawk .44, serial number 7363, was reported stolen out of Las Vegas in the late 1990's. My heart skipped a few beats...

I regained my composure and asked if she had any details on the gun. She informed me that the stolen gun had a 7-1/2" barrel. My gun has a 6-1/2" barrel, which was the only barrel length available that early in production on the .44 Blackhawk. Ruger duplicated serial numbers on their various models in the 50's and 60's (they all started at 1), so a 7-1/2" .44 with serial number 7363 had to be a Super Blackhawk, not a Blackhawk. Completely different model...

I explained all this to Kathy and she said she would call me back. Registration information is done online these days, but they were previously tracked on file cards by the Michigan State Police. The MSP didn't add the old records to the database (they go back to about 1935), so Kathy had to phone the MSP and have them dig out the old record. She was able to verify that my friend purchased it 16 years before the make/model/serial number was reported as stolen. His original registration record listed the gun as a Ruger "Single Action" .44 with a 6-1/2" barrel, with no mention of Blackhawk (which is stamped right on the frame)!

Happy ending for me and Kathy contacted the Vegas police and informed they that the stolen gun is actually a Super Blackhawk, not a Blackhawk. Hopefully, they updated the report.

Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-img_3184-jpg

Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-img_3185-jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-img_3185-jpg   Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.-img_3184-jpg  
__________________
"I also cook."
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:52 AM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 20,777
Likes: 9,436
Liked 13,131 Times in 5,971 Posts
Default

So in other words the common expression,
"I lost all my guns when the boat sank in the lake"

Will not hold water?
__________________
For office use only
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:54 AM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
Member
Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today. Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 4,191
Likes: 3,159
Liked 5,953 Times in 2,220 Posts
Default

Ive bought stolen guns 3 times in 50yrs, that I know of. Lucky for me they were legally bought and transferred. I never had one when ATF tracked them down. They had been traded or sold. Unless the gun is needed for evidence I think it stinks that they take it from last legal owner.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost our last pet, today LVSteve The Lounge 22 03-29-2020 08:52 PM
My beloved 15-22 Kaboom'ed today - (UPDATE: Fixed & Fine) ScrapmasterFlex Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 37 12-27-2014 06:42 PM
Lost My Dad Today federali The Lounge 58 11-23-2014 09:46 AM
I lost one today David LaPell The Lounge 3 11-10-2012 06:31 PM
I lost one today . . . tom turner The Lounge 14 10-22-2012 11:34 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)