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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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Old 05-18-2020, 09:54 AM
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Default Why so expensive

Aside from no checkering what makes Smith & Wesson N Frame Smooth Presentation Target FOOTBALL grips so expensive?

Also my apologies to the admins for a previous post.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:33 AM
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Because they are very much in demand and there is a limited supply.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:43 AM
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Because they are very much in demand and there is a limited supply.
What he said!
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:34 PM
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:42 PM
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"Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info."

Wow. Just wow.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:23 PM
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When I was working the gun shows besides guns I accumulated Grips.
Often brand new.
Iíll only sing one song.
See any without checkering?
Based on my observation, The checkered Grips greatly outnumber the Smooth.
Maybe 500 to 1.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:28 PM
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"Expensive" seems to be a relative term. How much were the grips in question? I'm just curious.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:53 PM
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I think for most people, myself included, they are more aesthetic than the speedloader cutout stocks, and very much more so than anything Altamont could ever make. That makes them desirable to me. Since they are no longer made, you have to pry them from someoneís collection. When offered, they are typically done so at collector value bc thatís what the market bares. This being said I haven't bought a set in at least a couple years. If I see a set I like at $200ish, I typically go the extra $50, and buy a set of Culinaís. Thats just me.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
That's pretty much the only response that makes sense. Same answer for non-relieved N and K targets not to mention "cokes", pre-war Magnas and a number of others. Back in the 70s/80s and before and after I suppose, folks bought new S&Ws and tossed the factory stocks in favor of "custom" alternatives. Those often included rubber grips from one manufacturer or another.

Now, often many years later, some of those guns have become collectible and the owners are trying to put them back to original condition with "period correct" if not the original stocks. There are apparently more folks looking for those "original" stocks than there are "original" stocks available. . . .so prices go up. That's a longer way to say "supply and demand."

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Old 05-18-2020, 05:12 PM
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
That's about as useful as you are going to get, whether you believe it or not...
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:19 PM
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I had wondered myself , why some smooth 'presentation ' stocks, were so expensive.
Looking for them online, they are fetching $250-$300 for the nice ones. Sometimes more.
I have learned tho, that some of those stocks did come in guns that were commemorative/ special presentation or were sold through the manufacturer in a very limited quantity.
Knowing this and how limited they are , are key factors in how justified those prices become.
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:24 PM
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I've noticed that many photos of 629 no-dash guns have them. I wonder if they were standard on some or all of them? I guess a letter might say...


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Old 05-18-2020, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
LOL, what kind of answer were you expecting? That they are made from unobtanium by fairies in the darkest forests of Bavaria?

Here is a little more of a long winded version of the same answer.

The checkered version was a standard item that was produced in the thousands and could be ordered for just a few extra bucks on just about any new gun. They could also be ordered by themselves as an accessory directly from the factory.

The smooth presentations were made in much smaller numbers and as I've always understood it they weren't something that you could just order. They were reserved for use on special issue guns - like limited runs of guns marked with the shield of a Law Enforcement Agency or some other kind of commemorative.

Like any other limited quantity item that a lot of people like - or want just because they are scarce - they command a premium price.
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Old 05-18-2020, 05:38 PM
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I've noticed that many photos of 629 no-dash guns have them. I wonder if they were standard on some or all of them? I guess a letter might say...
The S&W Standard Catalog 4th Edition doesn't give us much information. Does say that early ones shipped with "oversized checked Goncalo Alves grips with silver S&W medallions." I've seen a lot of them with the smooth target stocks too, and some with checkered "football" targets as well.

I bought this no dash four inch P&R at a small LGS in the Texas Panhandle in December. No way to know if the stocks are original, although I like to think that they are.

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Old 05-18-2020, 05:39 PM
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A pair just sold on an auction site for $350.00.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:08 PM
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I did not know that the smooth P/Grips had gone
up that much in value.
I luckily have a couple pair stashed.
The ones below came on the 27-2 when I bought.

I pulled them immediately as they were excellent plus
and I liked the deep color and the grain.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:15 PM
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Default Way Back in the Day....

A long time ago, S&W compelled their franchise dealers to carry every S&W logo'd accessory under the sun, just to move the stuff, including S&W private labelled ammunition, knives, etc. Display racks were bulging with blister packs full of TT's, TH's and TS's of all description, priced at bargain prices to move, all so the dealer could get his hands on a few M-29's. It's been a long time, but I recall all of those 3T items being about $15.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:52 PM
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A pair just sold on an auction site for $350.00.
Well, I am here to tell you that I did not buy them. I have 2 sets, one on a 25-2, and a set I bought new in 1975 to put on my 15-3. I suppose I can understand a premium for the rosewood ( Brazilian I think) that is no longer allowed to be harvested.

I will not buy cokes either. Too expensive. Nor will I buy a gun from a person or dealer that strips cokes off of a gun to maximize profit. Targets, diamond targets and Culina's are just fine.

Won't pay the money for S&W combats either
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Old 05-18-2020, 07:00 PM
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Original S&W smooth presentation grips for K-frames are none too plentiful either. A couple of years ago, I bought a fairly nice pair at a garage sale for $20, and thought that was a great deal. I now have them on an early Model 15 (a former cop gun). A perfect matchup.

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Old 05-18-2020, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
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A long time ago, S&W compelled their franchise dealers to carry every S&W logo'd accessory under the sun, just to move the stuff, including S&W private labelled ammunition, knives, etc. Display racks were bulging with blister packs full of TT's, TH's and TS's of all description, priced at bargain prices to move, all so the dealer could get his hands on a few M-29's. It's been a long time, but I recall all of those 3T items being about $15.
Yessir! Maybe even $10. I worked behind the counter of an LGS in southwestern CT in 2000 and 2001 during college summers. The shop, still there, was opened around 1960. There were still boxes full of everything you mentioned plus S&W handcuffs, battons, belts...everything. some of it was from the early 70ís. By 2001 there was still at least two full cardboard boxes full of S&W stocks of all kinds, including combats. All prices were $10-$15.....

When prelock gun values starting really popping after I left the blister pack stocks got put on those guns when they came in used with 1980ís pacmyer grips. Wish I had bought them all when I was there.
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Old 05-18-2020, 07:30 PM
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I think a lot of what drives the prices of the Smooth Target Stocks is how attractively grained the individual set is. Many are 'bookmatched" Goncalo Alves and can be quite beautiful in color and grain. For a long time the factory supplied full checkered football cutout Target Stocks were supplied in some pretty plain wood and many owners want to dress up their revolvers a bit. Here are a few examples
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:29 PM
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$350 is a little steep. That said, I have been known to overspend on the occasional set of smooth target grips. I'm always in the hunt for ones with extraordinary figure.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:10 PM
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I have some nice grips from a 25-2 that I am thinking about selling. The gun has been reblued and shot hard and will be nothing more than a shooter. I have no idea of their worth and am not a stock guy but they have the cutout. Have tried to attach some pics But it ainít happening. PM me if your interested. They look like the ones in The Pilgrims post

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Old 05-18-2020, 10:50 PM
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My 5" M27-2 wear a pair of gorgeous smooth Presentation Goncala Alves grips.

My brother added them along with a wide, smooth "combat" trigger.

He wore this gun while working backstage with some of the Secret Service guys when President Reagan came to Salt Lake City while in office.

I have no idea what their $$ value is.




These perfect Coke Bottle Grips I bought recently for my 1960 6.5" M27 are the most expensive grips I have purchased.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:49 PM
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I'll give a go at a reason for the price besides supply and demand. I expect that S&W has always looked for the best pieces of wood, in color and figure, to use when making smooth targets. Since the non checkered grips make the wood really stand out it makes sense for the best wood to be used. A higher grade of wood burnished and finished as smooth targets are will always bring more bucks than plain checkered grips.

Another example using a set of smooth K-frame RB targets.









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Old 05-19-2020, 11:19 AM
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Here's some Rosewood smoothies on me pre-29:
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:30 PM
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I don’t like Smooth Grips. I only have I set of K frame and I replaced them on a 19 with checkered. I dont know if they were original to the gun, I bought it used 19-2, 6”.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
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$350 is a little steep. That said, I have been known to overspend on the occasional set of smooth target grips. I'm always in the hunt for ones with extraordinary figure.
Very nice grips! Actually, I am sure they are worth every penny when compared to other things you could spend money on like bowling. At least you will have something to show for your money, and collecting trophies is like collecting old lawnmowers
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:31 PM
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Default Checkering

Checkering was done to rifle and handgun stocks to enhance the grip retention! However, over the years it became somewhat of an art thing. Done more for appeal than use! A none checkered set of grips were used to accentuate the grain and beauty of the wood! My thought is to show with wood and shoot with rubber!


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Old 05-19-2020, 04:45 PM
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I have always preferred smooth grips to checkered for shooting. I have several pair of Colt target grips which were "smoothed" by sanding off the checkering by previous unknown owners. Of course that has destroyed their collector value, but I still prefer their feel for shooting purposes. I also have several pair of those Indonesian grips as sold on eBay, also smooth, and I really like them. Have one pair of a Model 29.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:11 PM
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:33 PM
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I am a lover of the smooth stocks, but I prefer to differentiate Smooth Targets from Smooth Presentation stocks. The latter have the right side panel relieved so as not to cover any special markings on the sideplate. Targets are non-relieved on the right side and may have an extractor or speed loader relief cut on the left panel.

The presentation stocks are also more likely to have beautiful grain, but that doesn't always hold true. One of the nicest set of smooth stocks I have are book-matched targets that I got from eBay within the last year and I got them rather inexpensively - relatively speaking...



I have four sets of smooth target stocks (2-N / 1-K / 1-J) and four sets of presentation stocks (3-N / 1-K). I think that you are also more likely to get book-matched stocks with the smooth stock, although I have some book-matched checkered targets.

Don't question it, just pony-up and go with it.

Adios,

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Old 05-19-2020, 05:42 PM
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well I liked seeing some of the smooth stocks so...…
I also shoot better with the smooth ones.





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Old 05-19-2020, 06:05 PM
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Supply vs demand, really? Does anyone have any useful info.
Yes. Supply vs. demand. Surprised you didn't figure that one out for yourself.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:36 PM
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I am a lover of the smooth stocks, but I prefer to differentiate Smooth Targets from Smooth Presentation stocks. The latter have the right side panel relieved so as not to cover any special markings on the sideplate. Targets are non-relieved on the right side and may have an extractor or speed loader relief cut on the left panel.

Adios,

Pizza Bob


Thanks Pizza Bob.
I never knew that nor would I have ever noticed it had you not pointed it out.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:23 PM
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Not the best picture but here is an example of the Smooth Presentation Stocks that Pizza Bob is referring to. The cut out is the same on both sides. These are K Frame on a Model 48-4. A good example on the N frames are the stocks supplied on the Model 544 Texas Sesquicentennial Model with a special logo where the S&W logo normally is on the sideplate.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:40 PM
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Supply and demand.... plain and simple, no mystery.

You must realize that the football relief target grips were last made around 1978 (40 years ago) when the speed loader cut out targets replaced them.

What are other out of production, limited availability things (such as classic cars) going for now compared to their original price?

I guess while I'm here, I'll add a pic of my M544, wearing a set of scarce factory S&W Smooth Targets in Birdseye Maple.

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Old 05-19-2020, 07:59 PM
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I like smooth grips also.
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:20 PM
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IN YRS GONE BY, WHENEVER I GOT A GUN WITH WOOD STOCKS, LIKE THOSE ABOVE, I TOSSED THE STOCKS AND PUT ON RUBBERS. MUCH EASIER TO SHOOT GOOD SCORES! Ed.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:06 AM
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The terms "presentation stocks" and "coke bottle stocks" were coined by collectors. S&W simply referred to these target stocks as smooth or checkered, made of walnut or fancy wood (later defined as Goncalo alves and rosewood).

Click on the photo for a better look at the special 29-10 S&W made for me in 2010.

Bill
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gunhacker View Post
I guess while I'm here, I'll add a pic of my M544, wearing a set of scarce factory S&W Smooth Targets in Birdseye Maple.

Gunhacker,
I wish I could like those grips about 100 times.👍 I drool over them ever time you show them! I have a similar pair, but they are not factory. They are Culina made.
Larry

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IN YRS GONE BY, WHENEVER I GOT A GUN WITH WOOD STOCKS, LIKE THOSE ABOVE, I TOSSED THE STOCKS AND PUT ON RUBBERS. MUCH EASIER TO SHOOT GOOD SCORES! Ed.
Ed,
I, like many other members of the forum, wish I was following you around when you went gun shopping back in the day!!
Larry
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:19 PM
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Gunhacker,
I wish I could like those grips about 100 times.👍 I drool over them ever time you show them! I have a similar pair, but they are not factory. They are Culina made.
Larry
Larry, the Culina ones are great too. I have two 544's, one with the S&W's that I was incredibly lucky to have fallen onto, as I wasn't even aware that S&W made them in that wood, so I wasn't looking for them when they popped up on ebay many, many years ago.

The other 544 is wearing a set of Culina Birdseye Maple.

I'm trying to make up my whether or not to leave them as is, or install a set of S&W emblems to have them match the factory set.

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Old 05-20-2020, 08:44 PM
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A pair just sold on an auction site for $350.00.
If they are from a closed (completed) auction, feel free to post the link. Without seeing the auction my guesses would be - an exceptional appearance to the wood or two bidders really wanting the set badly.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:53 PM
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If they are from a closed (completed) auction, feel free to post the link. Without seeing the auction my guesses would be - an exceptional appearance to the wood or two bidders really wanting the set badly.
This is likely the auction referenced above:

Incredible Smith & Wesson N Frame Smooth Presentation Target Football Grips - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 867272993
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:34 PM
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Ya beat me to it.



A quick search of completed GB auctions for "Wesson grips" with $340 min, $360 max and they popped right up.

Very pretty. Having just paid the same amount for a shooter-grade 1917 with a shortened barrel, I wouldn't buy them at that price.
But then I don't have any guns nice enough to warrant wood that pretty.

Somebody obviously does though.
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:11 PM
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Could I please get a reading on my smooth grips as reflected in a vintage thread, Website below, which I initiated almost a decade ago. Still with the Smith and also displayed in a post this year, which I now can't locate. I've heard the term "football" Smith grips, but mine only seeming 'similar' in context of definitely not "shuttlecock" pattern!
Thanks for clarification!
Best!
John

44 pre-24 Four Inch

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Old 05-23-2020, 08:23 AM
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John...The smooth target stocks on your 1950 44 Target are correct. They appear to be made of Goncalo alves and do not have the relieved area on the left stock panel that was introduced in 1956. The style of stocks on your revolver were cataloged around 1952 and were used by S&W on engraved guns and on many 1950 44 Target revolvers (those with a 4-inch barrel and bright blue finish in particular) through much of 1958 when the supply was finally exhausted.

Bill

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Old 05-23-2020, 08:56 AM
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compared to other things you could spend money on like bowling.
LMAO!!!!
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:13 PM
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Doc44:
Thanks Bill, for the informative response re my Pre Model 24 smooth grips. To me, these sort of an "understatement" in appearance while being quite comfortable! Particularly appreciate your expert 'originality' opinion here! Moreover, your expertise shared in so many Threads! A real asset to these Forums and the S&W collector community!
Best!
John
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Old 05-23-2020, 04:05 PM
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Hereís my 66 no dash with the original grips. And with its current set up.
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