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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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Old 05-22-2020, 07:34 PM
Deadringer6 Deadringer6 is offline
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Default 38 cal Nickle Barrel-no model number

Im looking at a 38 cal Nickel 4"Barrel. It has no model number.I have never heard of one. Can someone give me a estimate on value. It is a extremely nice gun and been fired very little. Thanks.

Last edited by Deadringer6; 05-22-2020 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:38 PM
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We need more details; value could be standard to 4-5X standard based on age, original condition and features. Have a look at this post and let us know (the serial number is most important).

To IDENTIFY your Gun >
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:46 PM
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Look on the bottom of the grip frame.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:02 PM
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Please stop saying pencil barrel.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:34 PM
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That is what I was told it was....I just knew it was a 38 cal S&W.i apologize if I offended anyone. I changed the wording on my post.

Last edited by Deadringer6; 05-22-2020 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:36 PM
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No such thing as a "pencil" barrel. A Standard Barrel. There were also heavy barrels. If it is a .38 Special, more than likely it is a M&P model from before the late 1950s, which is when model numbering started. But there are several other possibilities. No one can provide a good value estimate without several good close-up pictures showing details, markings, and a serial number. Plating could be factory original - or it could also be a re-finish.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-22-2020 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:52 PM
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Default PHOTOS AND SERIAL NUMBER

Hope this helps ....they were sent to me so the quality isn't the best. serial number looks like 22315 but not sure??
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:24 PM
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See post #2 for how to identify your gun. The actual serial number will be on the butt of the grip frame. Pending more information, I am going with somewhere around 1920. It may be refinished, the stocks are much later and not original, looks like there may be corrosion on the barrel, all of which detract from value. On the upside, it is probably a great shooter. Pending more info the price might be right at around $400 or perhaps less depending on the actual condition.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:26 PM
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This has the "standard" or tapered barrel; looks to be 6".

As the linked post mentioned above (you did read it, right? ) the official serial number is on the flat bottom of the grip frame.

With the left barrel stamping, if the metal parts are all original it has a high likelihood of the serial number being in the mid five to low six digit range and the production date in the mid-1900 decade. The stocks are from a late (post-WW II) gun.

It's full official name is a .38 Military & Police.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:00 PM
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thanks for the info. the guy wanted $600 so ill probable leave it alone. its a little nicer that the photos show.i thought he was a little pricy on it. Thanks Again.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:13 PM
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I can see calling them tapered barrel and heavy (or bull) barrels.
But the "standard" barrel for a 10-6 is a heavy/bull barrel.

So calling the tapered barrel "standard" is far more confusing than calling it a "pencil" barrel. At least the "pencil" moniker is descriptive, even if collectors dislike it.

I know that since I'm no collector my opinion doesn't count for much (if anything) but it seems to me that the kerfluffle over the term "pencil" barrel is right up there with the arguments about stocks vs. grips or magazines vs clips.

Functional clarity means more to me than semantic form.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:18 AM
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The caliber designation on the barrel has .38 S&W Special or Service Cartridge. Can we narrow down the date with that.

The locking lug on the barrel means it’s not an 1899. Square butt makes it a 1905?


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Old 05-23-2020, 11:22 AM
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The caliber designation on the barrel has .38 S&W Special or Service Cartridge. Can we narrow down the date with that.
Alan already did in post #9. It puts the gun between 1905 and 1909.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
So calling the tapered barrel "standard" is far more confusing than calling it a "pencil" barrel. At least the "pencil" moniker is descriptive, even if collectors dislike it.
......
Functional clarity means more to me than semantic form.
That’s actually why I dislike the “pencil barrel”. It’s not descriptive at all.

I have no problem using anachronistic monikers for features if they easily capture the essential characteristic, like “deep dish medallion” for the recessed 1910–1920 style.

But “pencil” says nothing. I’ve never seen a pencil that was tapered and had a big front sight. It’s also not “pencil-thin”, so that stretch doesn’t work either. It’s just a dumb term, not a functional help.
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
But “pencil” says nothing. I’ve never seen a pencil that was tapered and had a big front sight. It’s also not “pencil-thin”, so that stretch doesn’t work either. It’s just a dumb term, not a functional help.
I agree completely.

As for "standard" with respect to barrels on the Model 10 (and its ilk), it actually does make sense. Keep in mind that the tapered barrel was the only one available on the M&P for 60 years. The heavy barrel (and it is NOT a bull barrel, which is something else entirely) didn't show up until 1959.

Hence, the tapered barrel was the "standard" barrel and the heavy barrel was an option. Dash numbers distinquished which barrel was fitted to a particular frame, but one was "standard" and the other was an option.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:44 PM
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I have an idea to help settle the pencil vs. standard barrel controversy.
But probably not. Lets refer to it as the .6" dia. barrel. The dia. of the barrel at the locking lug. Sounds like a good idea since the "Lemon Squeezer" controversy has been settled. Comments, as all ways are welcome. best, Mike
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:31 PM
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FWIW, the "pencil" moniker as descriptive adjective refers to being long and thin.
Like "pencil neck" "pencil skirt" or "pencil jeans".
None of those things look exactly like a pencil either but the adjective is applied to them anyway.
As for "bull" barrel, I've seen that adjective applied to fat untapered barrels my whole life - whether it is precisely correct or not it gets the idea across.
To me it is about communicating an idea - that is the important thing. More important than nit-picking other people's terminology.

Maybe I'm just "different" that way.
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Old 05-23-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
I can see calling them tapered barrel and heavy (or bull) barrels.
But the "standard" barrel for a 10-6 is a heavy/bull barrel.

So calling the tapered barrel "standard" is far more confusing than calling it a "pencil" barrel. At least the "pencil" moniker is descriptive, even if collectors dislike it.

I know that since I'm no collector my opinion doesn't count for much (if anything) but it seems to me that the kerfluffle over the term "pencil" barrel is right up there with the arguments about stocks vs. grips or magazines vs clips.

Functional clarity means more to me than semantic form.
No. "Pencil Barrel" must never be used. Everything else is OK, even if not technically correct, but "Pencil Barrel" is straight out.
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
FWIW, the "pencil" moniker as descriptive adjective refers to being long and thin.
Like "pencil neck" "pencil skirt" or "pencil jeans". ...
You appear to be more up on fashion than I am. I had to google pencil skirts and pencil jeans to make sure these terms were a thing.

There is nothing illegal about using bull barrel and pencil barrel, and yes, the terms get the idea across among gun people. I don’t hate the pencil barrel with Art Doc’s passion, but I dispute your assertion that it is a helpful term for a layman. The connection isn’t clear for a non-S&W person, because the tapered barrel simply isn’t unusually long and thin except if you hold a heavy barrel next to it.

And when folks like the OP use terms because they’ve been given the impression that they’re supposed to, it certainly seems a good idea to point that out.

By the way, I completely agree that “standard barrel” is content-free and thus not helpful to an uninformed observer either. But that one won’t go away simply because standard and heavy seems to have been the factory terminology.

I will continue to stick with “tapered barrel” when describing Model 10s without the “heavy barrel”.
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Old 05-25-2020, 03:28 PM
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It's funny....

Some of us get worked up about the use of the term "Pencil barrel".

Yet virtually all of understood what he O.P. ws trying to describe.

Sort of like those that feel the need to scold the new guys who use the term "clip" instead of "magazine".

Yet... we all understand the term.
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Old 05-25-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
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It's funny....

Some of us get worked up about the use of the term "Pencil barrel".

Yet virtually all of understood what he O.P. ws trying to describe.

Sort of like those that feel the need to scold the new guys who use the term "clip" instead of "magazine".

Yet... we all understand the term.
Hey, it beats the heck out of "boolit."
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Old 05-25-2020, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banger View Post
It's funny....

Some of us get worked up about the use of the term "Pencil barrel".

Yet virtually all of understood what he O.P. ws trying to describe.

Sort of like those that feel the need to scold the new guys who use the term "clip" instead of "magazine".

Yet... we all understand the term.
EXACTLY! I've never understood the need to correct other people if what they say gets the idea across.
What is the benefit - or the point?
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Old 05-25-2020, 04:49 PM
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Well, somebody has to do it:
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Old 05-25-2020, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Doc View Post
No. "Pencil Barrel" must never be used. Everything else is OK, even if not technically correct, but "Pencil Barrel" is straight out.
Pencil barrel, pencil barrel, pencil barrel!!!
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:29 PM
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Geeze, a nice early nickel m&p for 6 beans? I would have went for it, sold the magnas and found some nice medallion service stocks.

Can't beat that long action for range goodness.
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