I have a 10-2 from the early 60s and I'm wondering if I should only fire light rounds through it. What's the consensus on using +P ammo in a 10-2 with 4" barrel?

Avoid light bullets. + P can split the barrel at the forcing cone on these.


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Large amounts of +P ammo might cause early endshake on the cylinder or timing issues, but it won't cause major damage. For personal defense, I would carry it with no worry.

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Mike H

Any S&W .38 Special revolver with a steel frame (carbon steel or stainless, it doesn't matter) from the post-1958 period is fine with any of the +P loads. Even the company has said so. Personally, I see no problem in using +P with any of the above-described revolvers, going back at least to WWII. But for liability reasons (probably), S&W says after 1958, when model marking first appeared.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Good information above; a model stamped steel K frame in .38 Special such as your 10-2 has been approved for factory +P for many years. Quotes from factory sources suggest metallurgic changes as the reason for this.

But this was not approved for steel (or alloy) J frames with model numbers - not pertinent to the question at hand but still true. Approval for these didn't occur until the late 1980s to early 1990s.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

What is called +P today was rated as standard fodder when your Model 10 was new.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

+P is fine in that revolver, but as with any firearm, the higher the operating pressure, the faster the wear on the firearm.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Personally, I shoot +P without worry, but I stay away from light bullets (110 or 125 grains). I like to stick with 158 grain bullets, but that may not be all that necessary.

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You're shy a few manners.

I hear conflicting info on this, even here. S&W says in steel revolvers made after 1958 +p is fine. I have even heard on this board you shouldn't shoot +p .38 in a 19 or 66. It gets confusing sometimes.

No . It will not damage it . Been shooting heaver loads for 50 years.

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Jim McGhee

Here's a combination of speculation, opinion, and fact. It's incomplete, because I don't really know the first thing about +P ammunition. In view of my speculation and opinion, it really doesn't make any difference if I have any +P facts or not; so let's leave it to you to come up with the +P facts.

Speculation: Any and all +P ammunition is nothing more than a marketing gimmick designed to drive more to the bottom line of the ammunition companies-----------assuming you're charged more for it than the standard fodder.

Opinion: The ammunition companies wouldn't dare put out a product that would fit, function, and damage ANY firearm ever made lest the airways be flooded with pleadings from myriad attorneys urging you to call 1-800-BAD-AMMO to sign up for a class action to make you rich.

Fact (This from a S&W catalog from the early '30's------page 46, Ballistics of Revolver Cartridges):

38 S&W Special: 847 fps muzzle velocity, 252 foot pounds muzzle energy.

38/44 S&W Special 1125 fps muzzle velocity, 444 foot pounds muzzle energy.

As many if not most of you know, the 38/44 S&W Special of the 1930's went on to be transformed into the 357 Magnum-----the first step in what seems to have become a never ending contest of mine's bigger than yours. It is perhaps noteworthy to mention there is NOT ONE WORD from S&W suggesting the 38/44 S&W Special ammunition should not be used in their lighter weight arms chambered for 38 S&W Special in this catalog.

So there you have it. Compare these facts with whatever facts you come up with on the +P stuff, and let us know how comfortable you are using it in your plain old everyday 38 Special. If you have any thoughts on how comfortable you are paying extra for it, you may wish to share those as well.

Ralph Tremaine

The most important consideration hasn’t been mentioned yet:

Your gun is a 10-2 and almost 60 years old, and unless you or your family have owned it for those 60 years, you have no idea what has been put through it.

As has been explained, that model is perfectly fine with +P as manufactured. But how YOUR gun will take shooting larger amounts of it on a regular basis is something nobody here is really able to tell you.

I wouldn’t. If you’re not happy with the price, noise and recoil of standard loads, find a used .357

Please ignore this advice. Mainstream +P 38 Special ammo is NOT loaded to high pressure and is perfectly safe in a 10-2 which is not all that old, by the way.

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No life story has happy end.

Here's my 1942 M&P pictured with 500 rounds of +P (a 125@925, what a joke) and 600 rounds of +P+ (125@1,150, now we're talking) that I shot through it one time to see if anything would happen. Not surprising, nothing did. Note I don't subscribe to the model number is OK theory.



Here's a piece I wrote a few years ago.

Shooting with Hobie

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No life story has happy end.

Normally I believe in an abundance of caution, but I think this is going overboard.

I have an M10-6 and M10-7. I bought both of them used. They are both nice and tight with no signs of abuse or mechanical problems. They passed all my tests before purchase, but I am no gunsmith.

I have shot everything from target loads to +P in each one with no issues at all. I won't hesitate to shoot any commercial .38 Special ammunition through them for years to come. Same goes for handloads made from data published by reliable sources.

I would think it's more likely that some shooters abuse .357s more than they do .38 Specials, so this is like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. Especially for K-Frame .357s. Again, look it over carefully and have a gunsmith check it if you're not sure.

If something looks abused, don't buy it in the first place.

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You're shy a few manners.

As the rest of my posts here attest, I am always willing to let my ignorance of things S&W hang out in the interest of learning something new. So I said to myself... self, just call the 1-800-BAD-AMMO number and find out!

The Chinese sounding gentleman who answered took down my credit card information, date of birth and social, and promised to send a refund for all the +P, +P+, and any other pluses ammo I have ever purchased....

This should be quite a windfall, especially in these confused times, and may well pay for my next Covid Cabin Fever purchase with money left over to fill the food bowl of my 4-legged alarm system and 1st line of defense! ...


Edit:

Seriously, as if the rest of us could find a SELECTION of .38 spl ammo just sitting on the shelf anywhere. ROFL!

Old velocity readings can be deceptive, they were shot in longer barrels, even solid test barrels, not revolvers.

Early days of IDPA with SSR at power factor 125, there were few factory loads that qualified in a 4" barrel except +P. Ted Murphy wore out two M10s with the thousands of +p it took to maintain a practice and match schedule. IDPA later reduced the power factor so you could shoot econoball.

So while I am not worried about a few hundred for occasional familiarization, I am not going to shoot even current +P all the time.

It seems to me this story remains incomplete without talking about the steel we use to contain whatever the pressures are that seem to concern some of us. To that end, I have some more facts----and as usual, they're old facts. I hope someone has access to current facts.

These facts come from a letter written by D.B. Wesson, Vice President of Smith & Wesson, on March 1, 1934----a letter to an inquisitive customer.

Cutting to the chase, the customer is concerned about the quality of the steel-----and if it's been (heat) treated. "As a matter of fact, even in our larger calibers the steel as it comes from the mill shows a tensile strength in the neighborhood of of 80,000 lbs., which does not make the additional strength gained by treating a necessity-----------." (He just told us it's not necessary to strengthen the steel they use for any of their guns.) He continues: "-------but we do very much prefer the greatly increased factor of safety that is obtained with the 130,000 lbs. elastic limit that the treating gives." (Now he's told us they strengthen the steel anyway.)

As an aside for the nit pickers (like me) in the audience, I don't know why he used the terms "tensile strength" and "elastic limit" (which are not exactly synonymous) other than to avoid using either term twice in the same sentence--------and both terms are used in one sentence.

Bottom Line: Your guns are made of good stuff-------at least they were in 1934.

Ralph Tremaine

Any information on how these two M10s wore out? Did they "loosen up" to the point of being unserviceable or did they suffer some other more drastic type of failure?

Competition shooters are a different breed, firing thousands, if not tens of thousands of rounds a month. Most of us would never shoot that many rounds in a lifetime, certainly not through the same gun.

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You're shy a few manners.

I wouldnt overly concern myself with shooting +P....That gun can handle it.

Now I also wouldnt be firing 500rds of +P through it every weekend.....as with anything the higher the pressures the faster it will wear out.

97% of Smith revolvers will handle +P just fine.

It's confusing to those who believe nonsense like what I bolded above. Care to show us where you saw this?

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Formerly Model520Fan

Well that's not a very friendly thing to say.

I disagree. You stated you read where someone recommended against firninv 38 S&W Special loads in a revolver rated for much higher pressure. The other poster is asking for verification of that. It may be something is being taken out of context.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Off topic I know, but I love your avatar. If you were near by, I'd baby sit on the weekends. LOL

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I only take a knee for God

In the last seven months I read a post on this forum were a poster stated he didn't recommend shooting a steady diet .38 +p in a model 19/66. I browsed the topic. I did not post. It was the first time I had heard that and it was confusing. I am not confusing it with .357. I am not going to sift through seven months of post. I'm sure other people on this forum read it too.

Been hearing +P nonsense for 40 years. Guys with N frame 357s afraid to use +P 38s in their guns. SMH

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No life story has happy end.

I don’t understand that either.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I don't have any scientific facts on this matter but if I owned a nice 10-2 in good condition I would only shoot standard velocity , 158 gr. lead bullet loads and 148 gr. target wadcutter loads .
I would avoid the hot jacketed +P loads and the 125 gr. flame cutters .

Old guns like old men don't enjoy being pushed hard in their elder years ... cut us some slack here .

If you want to shoot hot loads get a model 64 , rated for them .

Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I wouldn't worry about +P just like has been mentioned before a steady diet of them, 100 every weekend, will loosen it up faster than standard loads.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I don't know why you consider my comment unfriendly. You are telling us that the bolded nonsense above was quoted from somebody's earlier post. You said that it gets confusing sometimes. That sort of hints that the nonsense was what made it confusing, but that is true only if you believe it, or believe that just because something is posted on this forum, it must be correct, or have some logical basis. While this is true most of the time, there are plenty of cases where it isn't. We occasionally have real experts correcting each other.

Obviously, ammo which meets SAAMI specs for .38 Special +P is safe in .357 Magnum revolvers. This is not affected by postings on this site.

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Formerly Model520Fan

Once again, all concerns over +P are based on the assumption it's a hot load. It is not. It is loaded below what what the maximum pressure for the original cartridge. The rating was lowered in 1972 out of liability worries with the cheap, imported guns.

The typical +P load is a 125 at 925 FPS. How is this a hot load? I have shot a bunch of it and the cases do not even expand and seal the chambers. Cases come out covered with soot which is a sign of low pressure. The usually fall from the cylinder by raising the muzzle. Gravity removes them and the ejector rod usually isn't needed.

You do what you want. Never get hurt playing it safe. But as far as I am concerned, +P in a quality revolver concerns me not one bit. Zero.

Would they sell this ammo if it could possibly be harmful?

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No life story has happy end.

I don't trust my memory on it and it was about three computers ago, and the board he posted on is no longer there.

But you are right, we competitors have an odd habit... we shoot.

The load does matter, my PPC friend has worn out guns with wadcutters but it took an awful lot of them, surely more than it did Ted with +Ps.

A critical point is unless you reload the additional cost of plus p is likely going to limit use anyway. I know of no one who uses extensive amounts of plus p on a regular basis. In fact the only “steady diet” of plus p would be in police guns back when an agency issued plus p ammo and that goes back a few decades now. And even back then most departments used lighter loads for training and qualification.
Considering the durability of a model 10, if you shot 100 plus p rounds a week ( at about $60 each week) it wouldn’t surprise me if that revolver stayed fully functional and in time with no “accelerated wear” for 50 years or so.

Ed McGivern was recently cited as shooting a Smith with good accuracy at 250,000. But my friend has shot out a couple of barrels with 150,000 and his custom short cylinder is very loose jointed.

Most of us will never even approach firing 150,000 rounds.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I just laughed when I saw this thread title. This topic comes up every so often and never fails to entertain, even when the answers are all the same as before.

The split forcing cone was a new one, though.

S&W and Colt were both good with shooting .38/44 loads in most of their .38s a long time ago. I would not even begin to worry about +p stuff - the odds of shooting enough to do any damage are really low, and the cost of doing so will allow you to buy several classic .38s.

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NHI, 10-8.

Would that i should live long enough to wear out a Smith model 10 with todays +p rounds