What's the significance in a M27 with this prefix to the serial number? I assume it's something to indicate a production change but as I'm learning here assumptions are usually wrong.
What's the significance in a M27 with this prefix to the serial number? I assume it's something to indicate a production change but as I'm learning here assumptions are usually wrong.
The "S" was, I believe to denote post war guns with the new hammer blocking system or (S)afety. It was changed from a spring loaded gate in the sideplate, to the simple floating bar that is levered to the rebound slide that carried on all the way until the transfer bar era of modern S&Ws as one of the new post-war features....they also around that time went to the short action hammer design.
S&W began to change to "N" in the late 60s I believe after the 1968 legislation that required unique serial numbers to be affixed to every gun. By that time they were referring to the large frame revolvers as "N" frames...that wasn't the case in the early post war years or before that. So the N was a more specific serial number to their large frame guns, and they started doing that with the other frames as well....K frame guns began to have "K" serials, etc. in order to have more specific and unique serials.
In general, quality levels of the "S" era guns were high, and many think they are higher quality than the later "N" guns. That's why collectors value them more.
Last edited by smithra_66; 06-09-2021 at 09:37 AM.
I believe S first signified the addition of the postwar transfer bar safety, didn't it?...I was still in my parents imagination then, and my memory has a few shady spots......Ben
I believe S first signified the addition of the postwar transfer bar safety, didn't it?...I was still in my parents imagination then, and my memory has a few shady spots......Ben
It's not a transfer bar. Those didn't come out until Ruger and Colt began putting them in their revolvers in the early 70s.
It's a hammer block....they had a hammer block well before this time, but it just worked differently and was possibly more prone to failure. The new block came out immediately post-war and is what the "S" denotes.
All S&W guns up until recent times have had rebounding hammer designs, not transfer bars.
Not to confuse matters but IIRC the new safety system was introduced during WWII during production of the K frame Victory models.
This is all from my fuzzy memory but IIRC their serial sumbers began with the letter "V" until the new safety system was introduced and those had serials that began "SV".
Post WWII the "V" was dropped so M&P's had Serial numbers that just began with the letter "S" .
(This eventually changed to the letter "C" ).
I don't believe there was any serial number overlap between the S prefix N and K frames as the S Serial post war M&P was somewhere between around S 800k to S 900k where early Post war N frames began abt S 62500 and changed to the N prefix around S 333454.
Not to confuse matters but IIRC the new safety system was introduced during WWII during production of the K frame Victory models.
This is all from my fuzzy memory but IIRC their serial sumbers began with the letter "V" until the new safety system was introduced and those had serials that began "SV".
Post WWII the "V" was dropped so M&P's had Serial numbers that just began with the letter "S" .
(This eventually changed to the letter "C" ).
I don't believe there was any serial number overlap between the S prefix N and K frames as the S Serial post war M&P was somewhere between around S 800k to S 900k where early Post war N frames began abt S 62500 and changed to the N prefix around S 333454.
This is correct. The SV guns were fixed sight K frames in the Victory Model V prefix series. Production began in December, 1944, with the first shipment in January, 1945. The lowest documented number is SV732261, but that was not the first one produced. It shipped on June 29, 1945, to the Navy.
Early postwar civilian shipments started in February, 1946, and included leftover SV frames for a short period. Then you get the S prefix M&Ps up to number S999999. That gun shipped in June, 1948.
N frames also got the S prefix after the war (designating the new safety system), picking up the prewar number sequence, as Engine49guy noted. I believe the reason those S numbers were discontinued in c. 1969, is because of the 1968 GCA. It they had kept going, eventually the numbers would have overlapped the much earlier K frame S prefix numbers, and that would be a violation of the new law. Hence, the advent of the new N prefix, starting at N1.
And, by the way, the large frames were always designated as N frames, all the way back to the first large frame hand ejector that was produced in the then-new .44 S&W Special, and a few other cartridges (1907).
Thanks to all I'm learning a lot. I'm thinking my next adoption will be a M27 maybe a pre 27. I think the extra money spent for either a pre 27 or the S prefix will be worth it in the long run. Maybe a birth year gun 1952 and just to enjoy the quest go with October of 52.
Perhaps the S guns had more attention to polishing,but in my extensive Model 29 collection I can tell an S from an N by appearance . Though having a great blueing,the N guns dont have quite the sparkle the older S guns have. The case colors are usually better on the S guns,and I like the slimmer trigger on the older ones
And, by the way, the large frames were always designated as N frames, all the way back to the first large frame hand ejector that was produced in the then-new .44 S&W Special, and a few other cartridges (1907).
Interesting. I did not know that and had heard that those letter designations came around much later.
Thanks to all I'm learning a lot. I'm thinking my next adoption will be a M27 maybe a pre 27. I think the extra money spent for either a pre 27 or the S prefix will be worth it in the long run. Maybe a birth year gun 1952 and just to enjoy the quest go with October of 52.
You are really old. You were born two months before me! If you buy this book, you will be able to see approximate Serial Numbers of 1952 guns to help you find a birth year gun. I only have one currently, a Pre-18. Enjoy the hunt. Jh
[...] the simple floating bar that is levered to the rebound slide that carried on all the way until the transfer bar era of modern S&Ws [...]
S&W still uses the hammer block introduced during WW II. There is no transfer bar in modern S&W revolvers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithra_66
It's not a transfer bar. Those didn't come out until Ruger and Colt began putting them in their revolvers in the early 70s. [...]
All S&W guns up until recent times have had rebounding hammer designs, not transfer bars.
While I do not know if Iver Johnson was the first to use transfer bars they were the feature most prominently advertised in their pre WW-I and later ads. Their ads showed a carpenter's hammer held directly behind the revolver hammer spur and in big letters read "hammer the hammer."
S&W hand ejectors still have rebounding hammers.
By the way, the hammer block in S&W revolvers is only there in case the hammer pivot pin shears off inside the frame. In its forward position the rebound slide blocks the hammer unless the hammer pin is broken.
Do not let all our nit-picking discourage you from further posting. Being corrected taught me a lot that I might not have learned other wise.
You are really old. You were born two months before me! If you buy this book, you will be able to see approximate Serial Numbers of 1952 guns to help you find a birth year gun. I only have one currently, a Pre-18. Enjoy the hunt. Jh
There are days I feel ancient. I have (I think) a pre 18 NIB. I bought it to shoot then found another one almost as nice so I bought that one to shoot. Thanks for the tip on the book. I'll have my daughter scour Amazon and E Bay.
I'm not at all positive that the S prefix is a tremendous money adder to the cost of owning a S&W out of production fine blue steel (or nickel) and walnut classic P&R 357 Magnum.
In these times, the high pricing goes with the territory it seems and sellers asking $900 and up for Model 10's on auction sites is a daily event. They are probably not getting that much but it shows the ridiculous "get-rich-quick" scenarios that are out there these days.
I own a few of these really great guns and the quality (fit & finish) of the 1952 S prefix 6-1/2" seems to have carried right through to the 1977 Blue 3-1/2", and on to the 1980 6" Nickel.
If you have to have a birth year then the hunt may be worth it to you, but if you are looking for the quality, and accuracy of those years gone by...then just about any Model 27 in decent condition that comes up will probably do it.
Mine are all factory Lettered so:
Pre-27 "S" prefix, 6-1/2", P&R, shipped October 16, 1952
Model 27-2, Blue 3-1/2", P&R, shipped April 5, 1977
Model 27-2, Nickel, 6", P&R, shipped May 8, 1980
Hopefully you'll get what you want soon and can enjoy that gun as much as I have mine.
Your S prefix M27 is the perfect gun both month and year. I've bought 10 Smith's this year so I don't mind a hunt (neither does the check book) for the right gun.
I was wrong (it happens) the NIB M18 is a 18-4 the other one is only marked M18. Now I'll have to check the two M34's and the 5 screw M17.
I love this stuff LOL
So from the S&W letter all N frames after 1968 regardless of model had the same serial number range? I would think that would be confusing as by the serial number you wouldn't know if it was a 357, 41, or 44. I only have two N frames so far a 29-2 and a 57 no dash both nickel. I bought the M29 new in 1974 and the 57 is a recent purchase. It has the N prefix.
I would think that would be confusing as by the serial number you wouldn't know if it was a 357, 41, or 44.
I can't imagine why you would need to go by the serial number. The bore and the marking on the side of the barrel would identify the proper cartridge . . .
All K target guns after the war bore the K prefix, also regardless of the cartridge they shot. Could be .22, .32 Long, .38 Special or .357 Magnum. C prefix guns could be either .38 Special or .38 S&W.
S prefix
...Ben
...Ben
) and walnut classic P&R 357 Magnum.
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