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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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Old 08-02-2020, 11:43 AM
Cloudhunter Cloudhunter is offline
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I've been a member for a few years here, mostly for Lurking the SW history. What a great site for Smith Wesson info, history and serious hobbyists. I haven't posted much but thought I'd share the following.

I retired from LE in 2016, and like many of you, started my interest in firearms in the 70's. One of my summer college jobs was selling guns at a western Michigan sporting goods store. Over the 3 summers I worked there, I remember getting large shipments of guns (40 to 60) that we had to log in and place out on display. We were like kids on Christmas morning. Shipment of pistols were always the best, S & W's and Colt's were most fun.

Remember, in those times, Python's were top dogs, followed by Model 27's (at least for revolvers). Colt Governments and Commanders were it along with Browning High Powers while Model 39s and 59s were gaining in popularity (mostly because they were starting to be issued by a few PDs. Also, 6" barrels were the norm. Anything less was thought of as less accurate. Shows what we knew.

I was in my late teens at the time (for context), and here's what I remember of my thoughts, at that time (by Model), as we unpacked the boxes.:

Model 10's and 12's - I can't believe the number of 10s we sold. It was the Glock 19 of it's time. Everyone bought one. If you wanted a gun at the time, you bought a Model 10. I remember selling 2" and 4" most. We sold pencil barrels and heavy barrels. I never could understand it.

Model 14's and 17's - Those were, and still are beautiful pieces of accuracy. I could never understand (then) why those guns came it with service triggers and hammers with service stocks. Those were thought of as range guns for accuracy.

Model 19's - generally ruled. Model 13's sold as a bargain, fixed sighted version, if you couldn't afford the 19. If my history is correct, by the time I was working, the -4's had replaced the -3's and they were no longer pinned and recessed. Only the N frames were still P & R, but 19's were still the most popular sellers. Full target versions (as they were called then) would always go first like anything with all the "bells and whistles."

Model 27's - Again, 6" were all the craze, 4"ers were for LE, it seemed no one else bought them. In fact, the most popular barrel length among police officers I sold to was the 5" Model 27. Today, I hold that up against a Glock 17 or 19 and laugh. I distinctly remember selling a 3.5" Model 27 and wondered, "what the hell do they want that for?" Clearly, my crystal ball didn't work. We loved unboxing those 27's that came in the big boxes that contained the walnut display case and the corresponding shell box for the pistol. If only......

Model 28's - We sold tons of those, mostly 6"ers. I may get some challenges to this point, but I remember selling at least one brushed stainless version. I could be wrong, but I thought for sure we had one or two over those periods. Also, my memory was that they would sometimes come in with target stocks and sometimes target hammers (never on the same gun) but NOT target triggers. This was something I could never get my head around. It was like the assemblers would put together whatever parts were available.

Model 29's - OMG, when those came in, it was like the holy grail had come into the store. Customers flocked around it and they would never last more that a day. Again, almost all were 6" or 8 3/8s, rarely a 4" but regardless, they would not last more than a day, never a full weekend.

Model 57's and 58's were a curiosity. They sold, but like now, they were always a niche item. I could never understand the 58 (then), but love it now. Again, who knew.

Stainless pistols had established a foothold and had taken over in popularity. 66's always sold before 19's. I don't remember L frames, not until later, and only to compete with Pythons. Being of that era, I hated stainless pistols, even though I understood their place. But, if they were not deep blued and wearing Goncalo Alves, they weren't guns.

Today I laugh at my thoughts then. All I ever wanted was a Model 28 6" and a Browning High Power. I own both today.

Just thought I'd share.

Dan
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:40 PM
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Yes to go back to our youth with the knowledge we have now.We would probably just make different mistakes
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:50 PM
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Cloudhunter I agree with your recollections, that's the way it was. I'll add that dealers took the Model 10s in order to get a few adjustable sight guns.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:28 PM
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Yes to go back to our youth with the knowledge we have now.We would probably just make different mistakes
But we'd have a whole lot of fun!

Cloudhunter, thanks for taking the time to write down those memories. Takes me back to a different world.
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:44 PM
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Ahh, those were the days!
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:52 PM
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Nice post, Cloudhunter. I enjoyed that. Thank you.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:51 PM
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The kids these days are all about the short barreled revolvers. I posted a picture of my 6" model 14 on Reddit and someone said it looked unwieldy. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:27 AM
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Dan,
Thanks so much for taking us down memory lane. Can only imagine your thoughts as to prices those weird M-27 3 1/2" are selling for today compared to the 70's.
Thanks again for sharing your wonderful story. Hope to hear from you often on this excellent forum.
Ray
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:44 AM
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One thing, there was no brushed stainless Model 28. If it was stainless, it would have to be a Model 628 and there is no indication of that ever existing. If a Model 28 has a stainless looking finish, odds are it was hard chromed by a previous owner.
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:58 AM
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After 45 years the memory is not a sure thing. I don't think there was ever a stainless version of the 28.

I wasn't selling guns in the 1970s but I was buying a lot of them. My dealer told me that any 27 would not last more than a few hours on display. But few ever hit hit the display case. He said he had a standing order with every distributor for any and all 27s but he only got one every once in a while. He had a waiting list of customers wanting a 27. When one came in he would call the person whose name was at the top. During the 70s I saw exactly one new Python for sale. A blued 4" model. I bought it. The Dirty Harry effect made 29s unavailable for most of the 70s. The dealer called me over one day when I walked in and told me he had saved something for me. Pulled out a 6.5" blued 29. Said I could have it for only $75 over MSRP. That was actually a deal. Most dealers were jacking them $200 or more and they were selling. I wouldn't get my first 27 until I bought a used one in 1982.

Those were the good old days. At least for me. I grew up in California and back then the only law was a 5 day wait on handguns.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:04 AM
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I also love this story of your memories at the time! A few specific things you said elicit specific responses from me.

The 19-4 was still “pinned and recessed,” I believe. I think that changed with the dash-5.

While I don’t mind a target hammer (I think it’s a little gangly but I understand it...) I will never understand the target trigger and I cannot imagine any revolver with double action capability AND that trigger. But your theory of S&W simply using up whatever they had in front of them is likely spot-on!

Oh and I’ll finish with... I’m a dedicated handgun enthusiast for 3+ decades and I love a S&W .357 Mag, especially a big N-frame but even today I cannot find it in me to have any interest in a 3-1/2” barrel Model 27 either!
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:23 AM
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This reminds me of a gun shop I found in Syracuse NY sometime around 2008 or so. My son was on a school function, and since my infant daughter started running a fever the day before, we decided our "family trip" would become me taking our son out and my wife staying home with our daughter. So, I had time on my own to kill.

I found this place (don't worry it's gone now, I've checked...) and it was like stepping into a time capsule. He had racks and racks of used stuff, but his new inventory was like a day in the life, ca. 1977!!

He had new Ithaca Model 37s in 12, 16, and 20 gauge, all the popular barrel lengths/chokes, with the tags on them. In terms of Smiths, I saw lots of N frames sitting on top of the wood presentation cases in the glass pistol case, plus 52s, 41s,...

It was AMAZING.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:00 PM
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Thanks for those great memories. I'm a wheelgun nut, but I'm in my mid 40s so came of age during the time people were ditching their revolvers for autos, and new buyers didn't care for them. The first handgun I bought with my own money was a SIG P220. I didn't get into revolvers until later.

I know the deal with -4 non-magnum K frames is confusing. The revision is about the gas ring and has nothing to do with the barrel pin. There are lots of -4s with a pinned barrel and lots without. Magnums are very easy; S&W made a new revision to reflect the change. The 19-4 is the last recessed revision; the -5 got rid of it.

As noted above, there are some hard chromed 28s out there and chrome looks just like stainless. People generally didn't chrome 27s as nickel was available from the factory. Just like with the coatings today, I've seen some truly excellent aftermarket chrome jobs and some that I don't even want to be around as they hurt my eyes

The M&P/Model 10 sure had an amazing run. It was the Glock 19 of its day even before WWI. Eighty years of being the go-to general purpose civilian defensive handgun ain't too shabby. Which is why I always chuckle at the gun store folks that price a beat up one at $600. They say they aren't making them anymore, which is true...but there's still a lot of shoeboxes and sock drawers with near-mint guns just waiting to be discovered.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudhunter View Post
I've been a member for a few years here, mostly for Lurking the SW history. What a great site for Smith Wesson info, history and serious hobbyists. I haven't posted much but thought I'd share the following.

I retired from LE in 2016, and like many of you, started my interest in firearms in the 70's. One of my summer college jobs was selling guns at a western Michigan sporting goods store. Over the 3 summers I worked there, I remember getting large shipments of guns (40 to 60) that we had to log in and place out on display. We were like kids on Christmas morning. Shipment of pistols were always the best, S & W's and Colt's were most fun.

Remember, in those times, Python's were top dogs, followed by Model 27's (at least for revolvers). Colt Governments and Commanders were it along with Browning High Powers while Model 39s and 59s were gaining in popularity (mostly because they were starting to be issued by a few PDs. Also, 6" barrels were the norm. Anything less was thought of as less accurate. Shows what we knew.

I was in my late teens at the time (for context), and here's what I remember of my thoughts, at that time (by Model), as we unpacked the boxes.:

Model 10's and 12's - I can't believe the number of 10s we sold. It was the Glock 19 of it's time. Everyone bought one. If you wanted a gun at the time, you bought a Model 10. I remember selling 2" and 4" most. We sold pencil barrels and heavy barrels. I never could understand it.

Model 14's and 17's - Those were, and still are beautiful pieces of accuracy. I could never understand (then) why those guns came it with service triggers and hammers with service stocks. Those were thought of as range guns for accuracy.

Model 19's - generally ruled. Model 13's sold as a bargain, fixed sighted version, if you couldn't afford the 19. If my history is correct, by the time I was working, the -4's had replaced the -3's and they were no longer pinned and recessed. Only the N frames were still P & R, but 19's were still the most popular sellers. Full target versions (as they were called then) would always go first like anything with all the "bells and whistles."

Model 27's - Again, 6" were all the craze, 4"ers were for LE, it seemed no one else bought them. In fact, the most popular barrel length among police officers I sold to was the 5" Model 27. Today, I hold that up against a Glock 17 or 19 and laugh. I distinctly remember selling a 3.5" Model 27 and wondered, "what the hell do they want that for?" Clearly, my crystal ball didn't work. We loved unboxing those 27's that came in the big boxes that contained the walnut display case and the corresponding shell box for the pistol. If only......

Model 28's - We sold tons of those, mostly 6"ers. I may get some challenges to this point, but I remember selling at least one brushed stainless version. I could be wrong, but I thought for sure we had one or two over those periods. Also, my memory was that they would sometimes come in with target stocks and sometimes target hammers (never on the same gun) but NOT target triggers. This was something I could never get my head around. It was like the assemblers would put together whatever parts were available.

Model 29's - OMG, when those came in, it was like the holy grail had come into the store. Customers flocked around it and they would never last more that a day. Again, almost all were 6" or 8 3/8s, rarely a 4" but regardless, they would not last more than a day, never a full weekend.

Model 57's and 58's were a curiosity. They sold, but like now, they were always a niche item. I could never understand the 58 (then), but love it now. Again, who knew.

Stainless pistols had established a foothold and had taken over in popularity. 66's always sold before 19's. I don't remember L frames, not until later, and only to compete with Pythons. Being of that era, I hated stainless pistols, even though I understood their place. But, if they were not deep blued and wearing Goncalo Alves, they weren't guns.

Today I laugh at my thoughts then. All I ever wanted was a Model 28 6" and a Browning High Power. I own both today.

Just thought I'd share.

Dan

What a great way to start off being a member here! Welcome form Kentucky. I love old "Memory Lane" stories, and that one was a dandy. Hope you come up with another soon. I felt like I was standing there helping you open the boxes.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:53 PM
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Thank you for that post, sir -brought back some fond memories.

Regards,
Andy
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
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I also love this story of your memories at the time! A few specific things you said elicit specific responses from me.

The 19-4 was still “pinned and recessed,” I believe. I think that changed with the dash-5.

While I don’t mind a target hammer (I think it’s a little gangly but I understand it...) I will never understand the target trigger and I cannot imagine any revolver with double action capability AND that trigger. But your theory of S&W simply using up whatever they had in front of them is likely spot-on!

Oh and I’ll finish with... I’m a dedicated handgun enthusiast for 3+ decades and I love a S&W .357 Mag, especially a big N-frame but even today I cannot find it in me to have any interest in a 3-1/2” barrel Model 27 either!
Thanks for correcting that 19-4. That's what I have, and I was
sure it is P&R.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:58 PM
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OP quote"""Today I laugh at my thoughts then. All I ever wanted was a Model 28 6" and a Browning High Power. I own both today."""

My first gun was a 6" model 28. Traded it on a 1971 Browning Hi Power( still have that). Took 47 years to get another M28. Now I have 7

OP, Don't be a stranger
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:09 PM
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Most excellent read, thank you! Can I ask what store you worked at? West Michigan is my stompin ground.
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Old 08-04-2020, 04:51 PM
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I wish I would have paid a little less attention to ladies and shifted that over to guns. The good news..I can still look back at the ladies but can now go get the guns. I prefer that scenario vs. the opposite....I think.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:22 PM
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And now it is either plastic semi autos or 3 inch revolvers.Thanks for posting ,it brought back some long missed memories.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:56 PM
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There was that small batch of brushed nickel M-28s made for the Florida Highway Patrol, some members have them as family heirlooms.
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:30 PM
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Thanks for all the notes. I thought there would be others like me out there.

As to my mis-statement...I meant a brushed nickel Model 28. As much as I've read about them being scarce to non-existent, I thought for sure I saw at least one of them.

Thanks for making me welcome on the site.

Dan
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:33 PM
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KalamazooKid,

It was MC Sporting Goods in Grand Rapids. I went to Western, graduated in 1982. Have lived out west ever since.

We used to drive to Bob's in Hastings, is it still there?

Dan
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:33 AM
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KalamazooKid,

It was MC Sporting Goods in Grand Rapids. I went to Western, graduated in 1982. Have lived out west ever since.

We used to drive to Bob's in Hastings, is it still there?

Dan

Ah thanks Dan!

MC is gone now (3-4 years ago maybe) but Bob’s is still going strong. And I’m a Bronco grad myself! (1978). Thanks for all the memories!
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
I can't believe the number of 10s we sold. It was the Glock 19 of it's time. Everyone bought one. If you wanted a gun at the time, you bought a Model 10. I remember selling 2" and 4" most. We sold pencil barrels and heavy barrels. I never could understand it.
Now that is an interesting post. I know a couple long-time gun-dealers who have told me the same thing about the popularity of the various M&P revolvers. In addition to the M&P revolvers I've been told they sold the various Ruger Six models as fast as they came in...….which wasn't very often. I remember in 1979 when Idaho State Police switched to the Model 65. Dad appreciated the strength of the Model 28, but he loved the more compact and lighter 65. Evidently the Model 65 was also hard to find.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
This reminds me of a gun shop I found in Syracuse NY sometime around 2008 or so. My son was on a school function, and since my infant daughter started running a fever the day before, we decided our "family trip" would become me taking our son out and my wife staying home with our daughter. So, I had time on my own to kill.

I found this place (don't worry it's gone now, I've checked...) and it was like stepping into a time capsule. He had racks and racks of used stuff, but his new inventory was like a day in the life, ca. 1977!!

He had new Ithaca Model 37s in 12, 16, and 20 gauge, all the popular barrel lengths/chokes, with the tags on them. In terms of Smiths, I saw lots of N frames sitting on top of the wood presentation cases in the glass pistol case, plus 52s, 41s,...

It was AMAZING.
I was stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y. back in the nineties (1996-2000) and there was a gun-shop run by a retired New York state trooper in the nearby town of Black River. He was the same way with all the "old guns". I was an enlisted man with a young family so even a $100 was a big deal, but I spent many hours in that shop. We just don't have those type of gun-shops here in southwestern Idaho. Here it's all about the big box stores with their inventories of new firearms and even the independents focus on semi-auto handguns and semi-auto rifles. Guess I'm getting old.
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Old 08-10-2020, 03:46 AM
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What a great thread! Wow this brings back memories. I remember the 70's and remember all the things he said. It seems like ages ago now.
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:45 AM
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Great walk down memory lane, OP. I suppose reasons like yours is why I look for S&W's of my younger years also. I worked as a Correctional Officer when in my mid-20's; we carried Model 10's when I first started, then "graduated" to M65's when the state replaced the mish-mash of pencil and bull barrel 10's in about 1979. I fell in love with the S&W revolver, and became a member of my unit's pistol team. We competed in PPC matches with other units and private citizens, and I bought my first revolver, a M19-2 with a 6" barrel and Patridge front sight. Most guys shooting 6" barrels were modifying them with heavier barrels, action jobs and shooting Open class with break-front holsters, etc., and I didn't have the bucks to build a gun like that, it broke my butt just to afford a stock ten-year old used revolver. So, I sold the M19 and found a nice M66-1 with a 4" barrel and shot in the Service Revolver class. I was no Jerry Miculek, but did fairly well. I left DOC after 6 years, but kept that M66 until about 2007, when I had a totally stupid moment and sold it to a friend, (who still has it).

Now, in retirement (I left corrections and worked as a Registered Nurse for 36 years), my goal is to have one example each of a medium frame .357 Magnum, a large frame .357, a large frame .41 Magnum and a large frame .44 Magnum, all from the 1960's-early '70s era (pinned and recessed). All I need to finish now is the M29, I have a M19-3, a M28-2 and a M57 no dash. I decided to look for blued guns, and barrel length was not important, but prefer a 4 or 6" barrel.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cloudhunter View Post
KalamazooKid,

It was MC Sporting Goods in Grand Rapids. I went to Western, graduated in 1982. Have lived out west ever since.

We used to drive to Bob's in Hastings, is it still there?

Dan
I grew up in WM and remember going to MC Sporting Goods as a kid. Cool memory.
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Checkman View Post
I was stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y. back in the nineties (1996-2000) and there was a gun-shop run by a retired New York state trooper in the nearby town of Black River. He was the same way with all the "old guns". I was an enlisted man with a young family so even a $100 was a big deal, but I spent many hours in that shop. We just don't have those type of gun-shops here in southwestern Idaho. Here it's all about the big box stores with their inventories of new firearms and even the independents focus on semi-auto handguns and semi-auto rifles. Guess I'm getting old.
Right at the end of Maple Street! Yep, was at Hum-Drum from 90-92, shipped TDY from there to Ft Benning, then Desert Storm in 91. I attended First Baptist Church of Black River just down the street, great people there. Anyways, I went into that shop a time or two, once to ask if a Beretta M9 (92) magazine would fit (brothers) Taurus PT92. Turns out it will insert but not lock in place. So he judges that I'm military and asks "How many do you have?" I showed him some M9 magazines that were refused by the arms room for corrosion from being left outside. He offered to buy them but I ended up swapping them to a guy in the barracks for a pair of boots.

I wasn't quite the enthusiast I am now and didn't pay too much attention to his stock. No doubt he had some real treats on those shelves.
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Old 08-11-2020, 10:23 PM
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Right at the end of Maple Street! ......... wasn't quite the enthusiast I am now and didn't pay too much attention to his stock. No doubt he had some real treats on those shelves.
I can recall looking at both a Winchester manufactured M1 Garand and a Winchester M1 carbine. I can also recall a Winchester Model 12 Trench Gun. It was over twenty years ago and ,like you, I wasn't as knowledgeable but I do recall it was a great store. He retired and closed the shop in the fall of 99. He was tired of all the governmental red tape and wanted to be truly retired.
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:56 AM
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[QUOTE=Hair Trigger;
Now, in retirement (I left corrections and worked as a Registered Nurse for 36 years), my goal is to have one example each of a medium frame .357 Magnum, a large frame .357, a large frame .41 Magnum and a large frame .44 Magnum, all from the 1960's-early '70s era (pinned and recessed). All I need to finish now is the M29, I have a M19-3, a M28-2 and a M57 no dash. I decided to look for blued guns, and barrel length was not important, but prefer a 4 or 6" barrel.[/QUOTE]


I have the same goal in mind with a slight variation. I have a 66, a 19 and a 686. I am looking for a 27 and a 586, or different barrel length's in 19's, 66's, or 686's. The goal is to have as many S&W .357's as I can but different variations. I also will stick to adjustable sight models just because I like them better
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