Gentlemen,
Were the model 29 4" ever issued to any police departments or Highway patrols as we know some model 58's were? I'm sure some officers carried 29's if allowed to do so.
Jim

Dirty Harry had one.

I couldn't say for sure, but I doubt it due to cost.

I'd sure stay within the bounds of the law in any jurisdiction that gave its officers a .44 magnum as a duty gun. Can you imagine a whole force of Dirty Harry's running around?

"Go ahead, run that red light, and make my day."
"Do ya feel lucky, shoplifting those Nikes?, Well, do ya, Punk?"

I have my doubts b/c it’s too much gun for the average cop to handle, the cost involved as well as the risk of over penetration.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Too much gun for the average officer as well as the cost. Also, public perception would likely be negative... after all, it took years for police to even adopt hollow point ammo for a .38.

__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer

No. As stated above but I am sure that there were some officers who carried their own if allowed to do so under dept. regulations. Years ago when I was the UnderSheriff in Eagle County CO we had a Jail Administrator who had been the UnderSheriff in another County where he carried a 6 or 6.5" 57 .41 Magnum in a shoulder holster as his duty gun. He carried it while on transports with us also.

Probably a bit of a PR problem..... back in the 70s huge outcry when some Depts. authorized .357s.......gave birth to the +P+ .38 special HP!

I could see it actually being a feasible choice if used as a .44 special service revolver, with a magnum option for extreme circumstances. The .44 special or light magnum is a better choice in my eyes than a .357 without all the blast and flash.

I have first hand knowledge of an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper who carried a personally owned 29 4" on regular duty back in the day. Big guy who was a firearms instructor; definitely could handle that revolver well.

Not issued, but we were allowed to purchase and carry our own. in 1995 Dept went to .40 semi, but you could still carry older weapons' if you kept your qual up to date. We had one guy carry an 8 3/4" 29. I only saw one officer involved shooting with a .44mag and it was was up close and into the gut. Ick.

:while in the Academy they made use shoot a .44mag with full power ammo to help us decide.

My first wife's uncle was a County sheriff and he carried a 4" nickel 29. A very good friend who was a Birmingham PD officer carried a Triple Lock 44 spl. Both of them had a problem with the bad guys out gunning them and rightly so. The both of them were very capable marksmen and never complained about the weight of the gun in a duty belt.

Having been active LE during the the 70s on, on the pistol team and interested in all things like what guns are in what holsters, I never heard of any department that issued the model 29. I could be that a few small agencies did, that I would never hear of, but I never heard of a large agency doing so. I do know of, or heard of, individual officers carrying the model 29.
At one time in the 70s, Remington produced a police load .44 Magnum round, with a 240 grain bullet rated at around 1000 fps, sorta like the police .41 Magnum load. I carried that load in my SWAT gun, as we were allowed a wide latitude for handguns on swat duty.

__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

When I was a deputy back in the ‘80’s, we had to provide our own weapon. I carried a Colt Government Model 45acp, one of the deputies carried a 4” Model 29, most everyone else carried 9mm.

__________________
Pine_Worker
Ex-LEO, NRA Life

I have carried a custom Redhawk on duty in the rural county which I worked at. I carried a 3.5" Redhawk, with .44 special silvertip ammo. and had two speedloaders carrying 240 grain SWC and 180 JHP. Sometimes when your back up is 30 minutes away , it is comforting to carrry a large caliber. My sheriff was OK as along as we could qualify with said firearm as per state standards.....

Didn't the DC Police Dept. issue the M29 for a while? Or is that fake news?


When I was a youth, Houston PD required all new officers to purchase and qualify with the Smith .357 revolver. After a year as a probationary officer, they could if they wished purchase and qualify with other duty guns.

Most all officers stuck with the Smith .357. It was what they had, they had confidence in it, and it was known to work.

A few that wanted "more stopping power" bought the M29 with four inch barrel.

Some switched to the Colt 1911 in .45 ACP. A very few visionaries went with the Browning Hi-Power for greater capacity.

Once I saw an officer with a Smith M10 in .38 spl. I asked him and he said, "it's enough."

I read in George C Nonte's book "combat handguns" that, until the 80's, the Oklahoma state police authorized handguns chambered in .357, .41 and .44 magnum

Interesting! I didn't know that anybody ever made a midrange load for the .44 Mag.

I got a Smith M29 a few years ago. My handload is exactly that, a 240 grain hardcast SWC going about that speed. That's the way to go if you have a .44 -- it's still a thumper but it's easy on the shooter and the gun.

Back in the 70's I saw a lot of Houston PD officers sporting grip butt medallions that made you think they had a M-29 in the holster. Gorgeous pieces of jewelry. Revolvers could have been any S&W model, but those flashy medallions made them look big. Haven't seen one in years. Wouldn't look as impressive on a Glock.

I've recently seen Harris County sheriffs with their star on the magazines of Glock and S&W.

I carried a 4" model 629 for a couple of years as my duty sidearm. It's the only pistol I ever carried that I could not shoot a perfect score with on the department qualification course. I transitioned to a Government model. Carried one for the bulk of my 38 year career. More recently we are making a gentle transition to the Glock 17 as the primary duty weapon at my agency

Detroit Police Dept. allowed private purchase of Colt or S&W revolvers or S&W Model 39 or Model 59 for duty weapon back in the 70s, 80s and 90s until they switched to Glock .40 cal in early 90s.
Lots of Model 29s, 57s 58s, 25-2 and 25-5 and 28s were carried by Detroit coppers. Also Pythons and Troopers. It was something to be at roll call and see all that serious hardware.

Fremont County, WY issued 3" 629s to their prosecutors in the 80s, IIRC. It was a S&W .44 mag snub for certain and I am reasonably certain they were stainless. They used a horizontal shoulder rig with offside ammo carriers, but at the moment I can't recall if they were speedloader pouches or loops.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

There was an officer on a small city department that carried a .41 magnum as his duty weapon when I was a Deputy Sheriff. At the Sheriff's Department you could have a S&W 39 or 59 and for revolver either a Colt or S&W .38/.357.

Used to be really common to have your badge on the butt of your revolver or bottom of mag. They made us stop in the 90s

I know for a fact it was not an issued firearm, but back in the 1960s when I was in high school I had personal acquaintance with the great Eldon Carl. At the time he was an officer on the El Cajon, California, Police Department, later moving to the San Diego Sheriff's Department. While he was with the ECPD, he carried a Model 29 as a duty weapon. This was years before the Dirty Harry movie was made.

Here's a picture of Eldon, along with some other notable shooters of the time.

Eldon is second from left; Jeff Cooper is second from right. I'll let you all figure out who the other three men are. All are famous.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

The .41 Magnum was designed to be optimized police revolver. A moderate loading was specifically designed for LE applications.
Smith & Wesson M58 Classic .41 MAG Revolver Review – Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun News and Gun Reviews

Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the informative answers! I do remember the Remington mid-range .44 mag load. As many said the .44 would be the upper limit for qual scores for most of the officers! Thanks again for your time gentlemen.
Jim.

As a postscript to my post #25 I should add some facts I left out.

1. ECPD, under Chief Joe O'Connor, allowed officers to carry .44 Special revolvers on duty, but only if they qualified, proving they could handle the gun/round adequately. There may have been more of them than just Eldon who carried the Model 29, but they were usually loaded with .44 Special ammo. However, Chief O'Connor allowed them to carry some magnum ammo for difficult situations.

2. About the time Eldon moved to the SD Sheriff's Department, Joe O'Connor was elected County Sheriff, so Eldon served under his former boss once again. I believe .44 Special was authorized there for duty carry also, and I suspect the same qualification requirement was in place.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

1963 - 1965 I used a S&W Model 29 4" as a duty revolver.

In the 1990-1996 era I carried a S&W Model 29 4" service revolver with a Charter Arms Bulldog 3" .44 as a "Backup"/

When I was sworn in during the late 70's I carried a Model 28 with the six inch barrel.
I had to supply my own sidearm.

The officer that encouraged me to join carried the S&W Model 29 with the 6 1/2" barrel in a Clarino holster. And, his belt and shoes matched.

We were allowed to carry anything by Colt, S&W, Ruger, and, Browning.

Only calibre requirements were .38 or larger.

It wasn't until the early to mid nineties that we were all told to take our personal sidearms home as we were all to be outfitted with the Glock Model 17's.

We could still carry whatever we could qualify with for a backup gun.

I carried the Walther PPk/S.

At the transition to the Glock we all received the same training, qualificatations, ammo, and, leathers. Everyone.

My friend got into one shooting with the .44 magnum. There was a guy in the city that was being chased through the town by a couple of units and my friend stepped out into the street as they came flying by. Let's just say he was not given a high five for touching off a couple of rounds at the fleeing suspect. It was quite frowned upon.

But, he was that kind of guy. Dirty Harry wannabe, I guess.

bdGreen

For those that mentioned carrying, or knowing an officer that carried, a .44 magnum, was the motivating factor for effectiveness against people or animals? I could see the use if you worked in a rural area or one that had large, dangerous animals.

__________________
low speed, high drag

I carried a 6" 629 much of my career. I was not alone as there were several that carried 44s as well as a few that carried the 45 colt. Initially we were allowed to carry anything we wanted as long as it was a 38 or larger, a wheel gun and a Smith, Colt, or Ruger. I guess the main reason I carried it was because I could, plus I shot it very well. Like with the 38/357 you could carry magnums if you qualified with them first try. Otherwise you were restricted to specials. Most times we were issued 240g Speer HP or FP although I believe we were issued Win. silver tips before that.

There were several officers in my mid sized PD that carried privately owned Model 29s. I carried a M57 and a M58 several times. I also carried a 5 1/2 Ruger Redhawk. It got heavy real quick and I went back to a 5" .45 Government Model that I had built on an aluminum frame.

My main round duty guns were chambered in .44 Special, .45 Colt and .45 ACP.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I recall switching from a 4" model 66 to the 4" 629 and how my hips hurt for a day or 2. I'm guessing the little bit of extra weight was the issue. I got used to it and it never bothered me again

Back in 1982 I was a narcotics investigator with the San Clemente, California, police department. When I attended the two week narcotic investigator school at DOJ in Sacramento, there were a couple of officers from the Palos Verdes Estates police department also in attendance. These guys told me that the PVEPD issued the Model 29 to its sworn officers.

Palos Verdes Estates is one of the most expensive places to live in the United States. The officers explained that much of the geography in their jurisdiction was rugged and undeveloped and included wildlife such as mountain lions and coyotes, thus the need for sidearm such as the Model 29.

I have been unable to find anything on the internet that discusses the use of Model 29 revolvers by the PVEPD, but I have no reason to doubt the officers I schooled with at the DOJ back then.

__________________
FBINA, 204th Session

That load was “encouraged” and developed by the late Hal Swiggett. Hal was one of my all time favorite gun writers. He didn’t claim the load for police use per se, just as one to make the big magnum more manageable. He said it would handle 90% of the chores asked of a big bore six gun. His load was a 240gr. lead bullet and 8.8gr. Unique powder.

Dan

About 10 years ago I posted the Model 29 pictured here. S199638, a Model 29 shipped Jan 5, 1960 to Charles Greenblatt in NYC who was one of S&Ws largest distributors at the time. Greenblatt was also the distributor for the Louisiana State Police who received this Model 29 and then resold it to a LA State Trooper. Notice the time payment plan. I don't know if $5.00 per pay period was every week, two weeks or a month. But, $5.00 was serious money in 1960 as I dimly recall. So at least the LSP in the early 1960s was allowing troopers to carry the 44 magnum as this contract indicates. It doesn't appear Trooper Krone carried this one much however, maybe due to the cost.
Enjoy
Chuck

__________________
SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

Ray Chapman on the left, Thell Reed in the middle, and Jack Weaver on the right. Rightfully famous indeed!

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

While slumming in College I knew a Natrona Co. Wy. Sheriffs Deputy who carried a personal Model 29 or 629,.. can't recall the exact model and I watched him fire it and he handled it rather well. I've never heard of agencies issuing them but that doesn't mean they did not.

In the era of 1970-1980 the City of Wildwood, Florida issued each officer a S&W Model 29 and a short DBL 12 gauge shotgun

A Florida Agency issued me a S&W Model 29 6" for a service revolver and a S&W Model 28 4" for off duty. (1995)

Well done, Alan. Eldon is still living, or was a couple years back. Also, Thell was still around as of 5 or 6 years ago. The other three men have passed on.

In 2005, Jeff Cooper was in Alaska with his granddaughter. I had a chance to visit with him for about an hour. It was wonderful. A year later, he was gone.

I have not seen Eldon in decades. My brother, who passed away two years ago this month, used to assist Eldon at pistol-shooting demonstrations. Think of this: back then, he'd do fast draw demos in supermarket parking lots!!!

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I seem to remember a smaller department in the Carolinas that issued the 4 inch 29's in the 70's or 80's. I can see a small department doing it but a bigger city department would be a no go because of cost and trying to get smaller officers to qualify.
When I got on Detroit PD in 1978 I had my personal model 29-2 6.5 inch approved and qualified with it just before I graduated the academy. I never carried the model 10-5 I was issued. I carried the Remington mid range 240 gr rounds.
I later switch to a 4 inch 29-2. When I went to a suburban department it was one size fit's all with a 19-3 4 inch. One size does not fit all very well unless you hire cloned identical people.

I talked to a Dallas PD officer wearing a nice M-19. He'd previously worn a M-29, with which he shot a fleeing thug through the back, exiting the chest, on a busy downtown street. The man ran for some two blocks before dropping.

The officer figured he used too much gun, like a .416 on a deer. Excess power was wasted and became a threat to the public. He felt the ..357 would do. Based on results with 145 grain Silvertips in Dallas and FBI shootings, I agree. The detective who researched those shootings for me said the .357 load was almost too effective for his taste.

I owned 44's. but not for duty. My M-66-3 and a Ruger or two were my work guns, briefly a Manurhin MR-73, mainly for variety.

Apart from excessive power, a big .44 is heavy for uniform wear. Camping in bear country is another matter. My M-29 was VERY accurate, but so are good .357'.s

Wow, now we know where we got the "Chapman modified Weaver"!

LPD issued some to SWAT if I remember correctly. I saw one years ago. It has a LPD marking on the left side.

This thread has some pics.

WOW! I never thought I'd actually get one of these!!!


Ned

__________________
Devil's afraid I'll take over.

Have no 'hard' evidence of issue of 29's as 'issue' revolver by police dept's; however, based on knowledge of LE revolvers .357 was likely most powerful revolver caliber. 44 Magnum fit the movie character and thus started a to this day desire for the Mod 29. Remember movies take liberties with reality tho the scenes of a well placed .44mag was a one shot end of bad guy...oui?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

__________________
And so it goes...

When I was a police investigator with the San Clemente, California, police department in the early '80s, I attend the two-week narcotic investigator course put on by the California Department of Justice in Sacramento. Two of the attendees were officers with the Palos Verdes Estates police department, one a sergeant and the other a patrolman.

These guys told me that their department issued sidearm was a 4" Model 29. The Palos Verdes Estates area is one of the most affluent communities in California, if not the entire United States, so the department could certainly afford the cost of a Model 29 revolver for its troops. As I recall being told, one of the justifications for going with the Model 29 was the presence of mountain lions in the rugged coastal community.

I had no reason to doubt this information and I never looked any further into it but, honestly, I felt then that it was definitely overkill when suitable long guns were available to take out predators like a mountain lion. I wish I could confirm today that Model 29s were standard issue back in the day for PVE PD officers.

__________________
FBINA, 204th Session

I love it when a great old thread like this one makes it back to the front of the line.

Caribou County, ID issued 45 1911's but allowed personal owned weapons provided you could qualify with them. At least one officer carried a model 29. 1775 square miles and one Indian reservation on the far N edge. 3 main towns the largest of which had a population of 3300 about 1980. Soda Springs PD had 6 officers the County had 8. One IHP officer worked 2 1/2 counties.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze