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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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  #1  
Old 09-27-2020, 08:40 AM
nksmfamjp nksmfamjp is offline
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Default Custom S&W in 32 magnum feasibility check

So, a s&w 16 32 mag is a rare bird....relatively.

It I wanted to turn a common model like a 15 into a 32 mag custom with a match grade barrel, how do I get a cylinder?

Is anyone making them from bar stock?
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:21 AM
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You use just a Model 17 cylinder and re-chamber it. PM me if you need one. I have a couple spares plus a couple 617 and 648 cylinders if you wanted stainless.
I had Hamilton Bowen assemble a .327 Fed Mag for me a few years back.
It's a pre-15 frame, Mod 17 cylinder and an 8-3/8" Model 16-4 barrel.
It has a vintage Leupold scope with Buehler mount and rings.
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Old 09-27-2020, 09:25 AM
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The cylinder is relatively easy. Ream a 6 shot K 22 cylinder. I did it for my model 16-4 so I could leave original one stock. Others also have. But finding a K frame 32 caliber barrel is a real problem or for that mater any .312 barrel material with an appropriate twist. The S&W barrels rarely show up, You could have a K 22 barrel reamed and rifled, People that do that work are hard to find and usually have a long waiting list. Lining a 38 barrel is not recommended because the liner would be very thin in the forcing cone area and the round is to hot for that. You could have a piece of barrel turned and threaded, the the OD reduced in front of the frame so a drilled out 38 heavy barrel could slip over it and meet the frame. This "sleeve" could be silver soldered eon to the actual barrel. This would give you a solid area in the forcing cone and the portion threaded to the frame.

I did make up a dual caliber gun that fires 32 S&W using a reamed K 22 cylinder in a 32-20 frame

By the time you buy a barrel blank, a cylinder and a Model 15. Spend the money to have the barrel turned and threaded, the cylinder reamed and some kind of forward lock installed, get everything fitted it would be cheaper to just buy a model 16
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Old 09-27-2020, 11:18 AM
nksmfamjp nksmfamjp is offline
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So, it seems like you start with a 17 and put a custom 32 barrel on it.

Iím surprised nobody is making a machined from bar stock cylinder blank.
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:13 PM
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There are, Bowen is one that comes to mind and there are others. Check his website.
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nksmfamjp View Post
So, it seems like you start with a 17 and put a custom 32 barrel on it.

Iím surprised nobody is making a machined from bar stock cylinder blank.

The problem with using a K 22 frame to make a 32 is rim fire to center fire. Moving the firing pin also means dealing tith the firing pin bushing. Not impossible but not as easy as starting with a centerfire frame


I emailed Bowen awhile back and he said he didn't have anymore blank K frame cylinders. Will that change in the future???

K frame 22 cylinders are not hard to find and ream.

lothar-walther.com has .312 caliber 1 in 16" twist blanks for $220 plus shipping.
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Old 09-27-2020, 06:26 PM
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Friend steelslaver nailed it. Although some people like Jebus35745 have done something similar to what you suggest, changing the firing pin from rim to center fire adds unnecessary effort and expense. I had a stainless version built on a Model 66 using 617 parts I bought room vendors and had rebored. My barrel was done by a man who has now passed away, but others are doing the same work. As for reaming the cylinder and the assembly, it was done by Andy Horvath of LaGrange, OH. If you arenít limiting yourself to an original barrel, any revolversmith who specializes in PPC Guns can turn one from a blank and install it for you.

BTW, from what Iíve been able to learn, Hamilton Bowen no longer has the cylinder blanks and seems to have discontinued having them produced, so 22 cal cylinders seem to be the best pathway to getting a 32 cylinder.

Iíve actually had 2 K frame 32s built in recent years, the first the stainless 327 Fed Mag (dubbed ďProject 616Ē) and later an homage to the 16-3 using a NOS Model 16 barrel, but another K22 cylinder. Iíd be happy to discuss my experiences with you, just send me a PM with your e-mail and Iíll shoot you digital copies of the articles I wrote about them.

Froggie

PS Check out Project 616 and My Faux K-32 is Here! as well as a similar discussion at this thread Pre-WW II 32 Multi-Cylinders?

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Old 09-27-2020, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nksmfamjp View Post
So, it seems like you start with a 17 and put a custom 32 barrel on it.

Iím surprised nobody is making a machined from bar stock cylinder blank.
No you had the right idea using a Model 15 in the first place for two reasons:

1. The firing pin issue mentioned above.

2. Model 15s are easier to find and generally a lot less expensive to purchase than 17s.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:33 PM
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Default .22 L.R. cylinders in a non-.22 centerfire Frame ??????

Have k-frame guns of every type from the '70's and four extra .22 cylinders. Have switched every combination of .22 L.R. cylinder to centerfire frames without success? If anyone here achieved a working combination would really appreciate knowing the Model with dash numbers?

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Old 10-11-2020, 06:13 PM
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Well specifically what was the issue of your unsuccessful attempts?
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Old 10-11-2020, 06:57 PM
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TO use a K frame 22 cylinder in anything but model 13 or 19 cylinder the first thing you will meed to to is either shave the recesses off the K22 cylinder or carefully file back the frame lug as it will prevent a recessed cylinder from working. The only other problems are length of barrel extension and the length of yoke tube. Then, there may or may not be some timing issues. But, I run into those way less than yoke tube length. I have also found that sometimes the gas ring is a bit long. Something like Prussian blue will tell you where your tight.

So, the K22 cylinders will not go into the 38 special guns because none of them were recessed and the K22 cylinder will bind on frame lug. They should close (with right tube length) on a recessed 13 or 19 frame except they would be to short and have a huge B/C gap. because those guns used longer magnum cylinders and their barrel extension is shorter. If there is a yoke tube length problem you can figure it on by removing extractor star. This will allow the cylinder to close (once frame lug is dealt with) Then You can measure the distance between cylinder and recoil shield, depth of recess in cylinder for ratchet and ratchet thickness. Do the math and cut down tip of yoke tube. Tip you can make a yoke trimmer using a case trimmer (out of the frame) and a fairly long pilot turned to just fit inside the yoke tube. Then a careful clean up with a nice flat diamond stone

It is kind of like reaming a recessed 44 mag cylinder to 45 colt and sticking it in a 25-2 frame. It will fit, one the tube length is right, the frame lug is replaced or filed back and the barrel extension is cut back it fits right in. LOL You will need to recut the forcing cone too of course.

I have made a K22 cylinder reamed to 327 mag work in my 16-4. one reamed to 32 S&W long work in a 32-20. Made one into a 22 Harvey Kay Chuck and fit it to a model 10 frame with a K22 barrel. I have a K22 cylinder that has been reamed to 22TCM and have usedx it in my 22 Harvey Kay Chuck.

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Old 10-11-2020, 08:04 PM
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Default Making a .327

Steelslayer,,, Your info's saving me many hours of mismatching, thanks. Tried what you said, put the 22 cylinder in my M-19. It does work, cycles perfectly. Already have .22 L.R. (like new) barrels converted to .32 just need the cylinder opened up to .327 is that correct?
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:08 PM
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Yes. but I wouldn't take apart a nice model 19 to do it, when a model 15 or 14 frame will work if you remove about .04 of the frame lug. I have another plan and just ordered another J&G model 10 frame (4th one) to execute it.

I have an new in the white 32-20 barrel coming from Numerich, have a K 22 cylinder, a k frame rear sight and a model 14 barrel.

Ream the cylinder to 327, cut the barrel extension off the model 14 barrel and drill and ream it out to 13/32 (.40625), remove the front sight from 32-20 barrel and turn it down to .4055 till just in front of its threads. place it on dry ice to take it down to -100f and shrink it. Heat what was the model 14 barrel up to about 350f to expand it and slide them together and cause them to shrink fit.

Mill the model 10 frame for adjustable sights and hey a K frame 327 Federal for about $500

I need to finish my Smolt first though. S many guns to built and hunting season is almost here to.

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Old 10-11-2020, 09:44 PM
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Default M-16 in .327

Steelslayer ,, This is my M-15 with M-16 barrel and M-16 cylinder reamed to .327 . With .32 wadcutters and bullseye most accurate of all my guns. With .327 mag rounds likes the long barrel's burn time.
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Old 10-11-2020, 10:48 PM
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I have been on the hunt for a factory model 16 barrel for a couple years. Missed one for sale here on forum as it didn't last long. Factory cylinders are hard to find to. I have been thinking of making one for a while. I do have some J and I frames and a 32-20 and a 16-4.

I saw a pre model K32 at a gun show here today. Nicely refinished with fairly recent production stocks. $2500 was to rich for me. Nice looking gun, but not worth that with refinish and wrong stocks. I am going to built one
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Yes. but I wouldn't take apart a nice model 19 to do it, when a model 15 or 14 frame will work if you remove about .04 of the frame lug. I have another plan and just ordered another J&G model 10 frame (4th one) to execute it.

I have an new in the white 32-20 barrel coming from Numerich, have a K 22 cylinder, a k frame rear sight and a model 14 barrel.

Ream the cylinder to 327, cut the barrel extension off the model 14 barrel and drill and ream it out to 13/32 (.40625), remove the front sight from 32-20 barrel and turn it down to .4055 till just in front of its threads. place it on dry ice to take it down to -100f and shrink it. Heat what was the model 14 barrel up to about 350f to expand it and slide them together and cause them to shrink fit.

Mill the model 10 frame for adjustable sights and hey a K frame 327 Federal for about $500

I need to finish my Smolt first though. S many guns to built and hunting season is almost here to.
I am sure I speak for others when I say I wish had your shop and skills.

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Old 10-12-2020, 09:31 PM
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Steelslaver, Have one last question.. My M-16 .32H&R (now .327 mag) is not countersunk, my M-19 is countersunk. When sent the K22 cylinder out to be converted to .327 should it then be countersunk or not?
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:41 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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If the chambers weren't counter-bored then the rear of the cyl had to be faced off for proper head space or the cyl couldn't close.
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:11 AM
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If your going to use it in the model 19 frame with a 32 barrel you can leave the recesses as the model 19 frame lug is set for a counter sunk cylinder. But, if you use it in the 16-4 frame you will need to shave the countersunk portion of cylinder off or trim back the 16-4s frame lug. Something I would not do as a stock 16-4 commands a premium price.

If you trim it back and use it in both frames for some reason, it would still work in the 19 frame. It is just that when open the cylinder would move back the .04 to hit the frame lug when ejecting and as you load the cylinder it will move back forward and close normally. If you were to hold itt muzzle up the side of the ratchett might hang up a bit on side of recoil shield, but then your ammo would be falling out anyway if you did that.

This is a common deal with dual cylinder 45 acp- 45 colts. The acp cylinder has a lot of space between recoil shield and rear of cylinder (moon clips + case heads) and a 45 colt just has the rim. So normally for the colt cylinder needs the lug way bag and this means the acp cylinder is real sloppy when open. There is another way on them and gthat is to cut a .04 ledge from the rear OD of the colt cylinder. This lets the lug remain at acp length and gives the colt cylinder clearance on the lug.

I did away with all my dual cylinder 45s though. The ones that I want to fire both use 45colt cylinders with clip recesses for acps.
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Old 10-13-2020, 09:31 AM
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FYI:

Hereíre are my .22lr 17-6 (top) and .32 H&R 16-4 (bottom). You can see the difference in frame lug size. The frame lug on the .22lr with recessed cylinder is much smaller/narrower.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:29 PM
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This may be a dumb question, Would a .32 long barrel and cylinder work for 327 mag? Granted chambers would need reamed... I'm interested in making a K frame 327 mag. Finding a mod 16 barrel seems impossible. I emailed Smith last week asking them to make a K frame 327 mag with a 3 inch barrel.. of course they replied with "your opinion matters and we'll foward your email to our design team" it's a long shot but hey.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:49 PM
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A 32 long barrel will work fine IF it is for a K frame and IF you can find one Same applies for a cylinder. Both are extremely uncommon. Numerich does have some 32-20 barrels for sale, but they must have been for the first early models as they have no lug under the barrel for the ejector rod and no rib, just front sight. I am going to use one of those. using everything in front of the frame threads as a liner for a drilled out model 14 barrel

A regular J frame cylinder can be reamed to 327 Federal bur the bullets would stick out the cylinder face. They do make nice 32 H&R mags

They did make J frame 327 mags, but those used a longer cylinder than any of the other J 32s and good luck finding a spare one of those.

Last edited by steelslaver; 10-13-2020 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:12 PM
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Not sayin it's right ,,, not sayin it's wrong.
But I am continually amazed at the monumental efforts taken to attain a K Frame 327. Certainly doable with the help of a talented gunsmith and a substantial mix of hard to find parts and cash.
I do like a well built S&W but I guess I'm lazy. Me,,,, I just get one of many off the shelf (made in any configuration you could want) Ruger , do some tidy up tuning , and go shooting.
Having been doing the hot 32s for quite a while ,if it HAD to be a S&W I could be quite content with a Mod 16 32mag . Properly loaded it can really knock on the door of a 327! And while expensive I would guestimate still cheaper than a custom.
Too old to fight windmills anymore when there is a easy road to take I guess.

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Old 10-13-2020, 01:45 PM
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Folks who are still wondering about mixing and matching recessed vs non-recessed chambers etc should go back and read the two threads I linked way back in Post #7. I’ve done both, and explained how and why each was used. In short, the stainless was built on a Model 66 ND (357 with recessed chambers) so I kept the recessed chambers. The faux Model 16 was built on a Model 14-3 so the cylinder was milled to match the Model 14 cylinder (non-recessed) it replaced.

To recap what I’ve opined in the past, it doesn’t make any real difference that I can see as to which way you go... it’s best to do what the gun wants you to do!

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Old 10-13-2020, 01:57 PM
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delete ,,,,Whoops,,,,, Posted in wrong section ,,,,,Sorry

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Old 10-13-2020, 02:26 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Doug View Post
Steelslaver, Have one last question.. My M-16 .32H&R (now .327 mag) is not countersunk, my M-19 is countersunk. When sent the K22 cylinder out to be converted to .327 should it then be countersunk or not?
Jersey Doug,

I actually was inspired to write the previous post to answer your question... upon rereading it, Iím not sure how well I did. If Iíve muddied the waters, please PM me and Iíll try to be more clear.

Froggie
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Old 10-13-2020, 02:30 PM
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can someone explain why the heck Smith quit making the .32 mag? Just seems a 6 shot J-frame with a 3" option would become a best seller, or a K frame with a 7 shot.
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Old 10-13-2020, 02:46 PM
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I have reamed a 30-1 cyl to 327 Fed Mag. Most off the shelf 327 ammo works just fine, but the bullet tip is right at the end of the cyl. Bullets that stick out of the cyl .002"-.003" actually work as well because the bar/cyl gap accommodates the slight over length. However the recoil in the small frame is a thing to behold and therefore not advised!
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:00 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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can someone explain why the heck Smith quit making the .32 mag? Just seems a 6 shot J-frame with a 3" option would become a best seller, or a K frame with a 7 shot.
Every thing S&W produces (any manufacturer) is based on sales success. It wasn't/isn't that big of a seller.

Another issue was finding ammo for it, especially now! If Trump wins, that issue will subside.

It's much more fun shooting the .327 in a K frame than in a J frame, even with a 6" barrel. Although it would make a potent, dandy light packing trail gun and one could always drop back to 32 Mag or 32 long for fun plinking.

All things considered, it's basically a niche market cartridge so far, and more popular with handloaders which is a relatively small market.
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:16 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Since the de facto standard J frame is the 357 mag length, the 327 is certainly an available round for it, however the 327 Fed Mag “is not your grandfather’s 32.” The K frame, on the other hand, is ideal for the 327 at factory levels or a little less. The little 32 S&W Long is kinda overwhelmed in the K platform, but with the 327/K frame combination we find a true match made in heaven. At least that’s the way it seems with my Project 616.

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Old 10-13-2020, 09:14 PM
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I can not imagine a 327 in a J frame being worse than a 357 in one or for that mater 45acps in my 325 with a scandium cylinder. But,I don't doubt it is snappy. I wouldn't mind trying it myself.

Hondo. I find it interesting that a 327 will fit in a standard J frame cylinder once reamed. I just happen to have a spare 32 cal cylinder and a shooter grade J frame 32. Plus, 4D has the reamer.
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Old 10-13-2020, 11:30 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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It is on hold right now, but I'm working on a M15 conversion to .327 Federal. I have a M16-4 cylinder that has been rechambered to .327 and a 6" M53 barrel that has been re-rifled to .32. I had an extra .32-20 cylinder and it appears to be a drop-in fit.
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:02 AM
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I can not imagine a 327 in a J frame being worse than a 357 in one or for that mater 45acps in my 325 with a scandium cylinder. But,I don't doubt it is snappy. I wouldn't mind trying it myself.

Hondo. I find it interesting that a 327 will fit in a standard J frame cylinder once reamed. I just happen to have a spare 32 cal cylinder and a shooter grade J frame 32. Plus, 4D has the reamer.
Yes, not as bad as a 357 J frame, 327 is just snappy and not too much fun to shoot many.
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Old 10-14-2020, 06:25 AM
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I am sure it is not fun to plink with. But, its like my 325. It is my carry gun, I take it to the range and put some clips though it and carry it. Not much plinking. But, with a J 327 you could plink all day long with 32 longs, then stuff it with 327 for a small carry gun. But, I have to wonder if the advantage over good H&R magnum loads is enough to make it worth it.

My wife likes to carry one of my small 32 longs which I load on the warm side witth cast semi wad cutters for her. Small hands and recoil sensitive. She once shot my 500 S&W though. She was at the range with me and got curious. I explained all about it, a scoped 8 3/8" model. She was still game. Said it hurt her back and prefers the 32s
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Old 10-14-2020, 06:48 AM
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It is on hold right now, but I'm working on a M15 conversion to .327 Federal. I have a M16-4 cylinder that has been rechambered to .327 and a 6" M53 barrel that has been re-rifled to .32. I had an extra .32-20 cylinder and it appears to be a drop-in fit.
Have you ever solved the issue with there being too much cylinder gap because the barrel shank on the 53 barrel is shorter than a 17 or 16 barrel?

Easiest, but probably the most expensive, way to get a .327 K-fame is using a Model 53... Rebore the barrel...rechamber the .22 Rimfire cylinder and you are done... The expensive part of course being the doner gun...

Still have the original barrel and cylinder so it can be put back to .22 Jet in the future.

Bob
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:55 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Have you ever solved the issue with there being too much cylinder gap because the barrel shank on the 53 barrel is shorter than a 17 or 16 barrel?

Easiest, but probably the most expensive, way to get a .327 K-fame is using a Model 53... Rebore the barrel...rechamber the .22 Rimfire cylinder and you are done... The expensive part of course being the doner gun...

Still have the original barrel and cylinder so it can be put back to .22 Jet in the future.

Bob
Bob,

The limiting factor here seems to be the (long) 22 RF cylinder from the Model 53 since there a few reports of shot out Mod 53 barrels being available for sale. I like the idea of being able to reverse your process as you suggest here, but if youíve found the barrel and cylinder, you could just as easily use a Model 19 donor, couldnít you? IIRC, the cylinder window in the 19 and 53 are the same size, but the 53 barrel tenon just doesnít extend as far into the window to make room for the longer cylinder, right?

Froggie
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:15 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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"Have you ever solved the issue with there being too much cylinder gap because the barrel shank on the 53 barrel is shorter than a 17 or 16 barrel?"

I'm going to set the barrel back.
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:47 PM
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Froggie...IF one could find a Jet barrel and .22 Rimfire cylinder then yes, it would drop right into a 19 frame... The last Model 53 cylinder I saw for sale was on ebay about three years ago...and it went for $800.00...

Last year I was surfing the completed auctions on GunBroker and saw where I had missed a 1961 4" Model 53 that only had the .22 Rimfire cylinder....and it went for ....$800.00... I would have sent that right down to Jack Huntington and I'd have a pair of .327s...the ones S&W should have made.
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:33 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Have you ever solved the issue with there being too much cylinder gap because the barrel shank on the 53 barrel is shorter than a 17 or 16 barrel?

Easiest, but probably the most expensive, way to get a .327 K-fame is using a Model 53... Rebore the barrel...rechamber the .22 Rimfire cylinder and you are done... The expensive part of course being the doner gun...

Still have the original barrel and cylinder so it can be put back to .22 Jet in the future.

Bob

Yeah like Muley Gil posted, set the barrel back. The only real option; and it might have to be set back a little anyway to clock the barrel. The great thing is it'll never show on the straight HB. The tapered barrels are the problem if you have to set the barrel back very much.

You have a great dual set up there. If I find a 53, I always wanted to rechamber the .22 cyl or the Jet cyl to the Super Jet. Then fire form the cases to the sharp shoulder Super (like the .256 Win Mag). No more sticking cases and more powder capacity.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 10-14-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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