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  #1  
Old 12-01-2020, 12:58 PM
Mike.45 Mike.45 is offline
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M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ? M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ? M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ? M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ? M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?  
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Default M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?

Dear all,

A friend has a M19 for sale with a 3 inch barrel. Apparently its as new condition. I dont know what version it is 19-2 etc.

I didn't know they came in 3 inch version, is it rare ?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:03 PM
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I've only seen 3" Model 66 revolvers. It should be a nice find.
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:06 PM
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The 3” 19, not counting the recent version with porting and a lock, is rare. I do recall a fixed sight 3” model 19 being exported. I bet your friend is confused o the barrel length.
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:14 PM
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Yes..... not mine


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Old 12-01-2020, 01:15 PM
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There were a few factory 3” model 19s made for the CA state department of drug enforcement (don’t recall the acronym). There have been Performance Center 3” guns made in larger numbers and the fixed sight guns as mentioned above. Interested to see which if any of these he might have.
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:25 PM
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I think all the fixed sight 19s were 19-3. I believe the adj. sight 19 with 3” were all 19-2.
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:42 PM
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First, make sure the barrel is actually 3" and not 4" which is a common length. Measure from cylinder face to muzzle.
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:48 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys - I await photos of my buddy ! I think he said it was a 19/2 but I can't be certain as the phone line was awful when we chatted.

I will keep you updated !!

Mike
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Old 12-01-2020, 03:08 PM
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Model 19-2 with a scarce to rare 3-inch barrel shipped in 1966. Click on the photo for a better look.

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Old 12-01-2020, 03:17 PM
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Awesome ! Thanks Bill !
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
There were a few factory 3” model 19s made for the CA state department of drug enforcement (don’t recall the acronym).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyaljeeper View Post
I think all the fixed sight 19s were 19-3. I believe the adj. sight 19 with 3” were all 19-2.
The adjustable sight 3” M19’s made for the CA BNE were -3’s.
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Old 12-02-2020, 10:51 AM
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At one time they grew on trees......

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Old 12-02-2020, 11:00 AM
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At one time they grew on trees......
I'd love to be under that tree in the "fall"......Ben
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:08 AM
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At one time they grew on trees......

I never knew a 3" Model 19 existed until today...and with diamond magnas? Jeez. Y'all will be the death of my bank account one day.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:37 PM
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They made some 3" for the Massachusetts State Police.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:49 PM
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Wow, another one for my want list.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:53 PM
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On a related topic, there was a discussion as to what constituted a “scarce” vs. “rare” gun, with no agreement on definition. The best one offered for rare was “I don’t have one”. By Roy Jinks.
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Old 12-02-2020, 02:30 PM
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I wouldn't say rare. Limited production, yes. Hard to find, yes. Very desirable, oh yes indeed!
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Old 12-02-2020, 03:15 PM
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About 1970, CIA officer Harry Archer scrounged a nickel one from a friend at S&W and used it and a M-60 extensively in South American jungles.

He wrote about this in, Gunfacts, no longer published. I also corresponded with him. Archer is now deceased, RIP.

He killed deer, tapir, I think even a jaguar with that .357 and used hot loads in the M-60 on game.

The M-60 was unaffected by the humid climate. The nickel M-19 developed a cloudy, mottled finish.

He really preferred a hard chromed .45 auto, as it was easier to field strip and clean and could be reloaded faster.

Archer designed the Chute knife made by R.W.. Loveless.

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Old 12-02-2020, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
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On a related topic, there was a discussion as to what constituted a “scarce” vs. “rare” gun, with no agreement on definition. The best one offered for rare was “I don’t have one”. By Roy Jinks.
Rare also often means that someone wants to sell at an inflated price. It may not be rare at all.
But three-inch M-19's are rare.

French presidential bodyguards used them, but they didn't hold up well in heavy .357 use, so Manurhin developed the sturdy MR-73.
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Old 12-02-2020, 03:52 PM
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They made some 3" for the Massachusetts State Police.
Having deep family history in MA, I think I may have found my next unicorn.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:49 AM
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This 3"er spent some time with Alvin White after it left the factory...





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Old 12-03-2020, 11:28 AM
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I’ve posted this before. My 3” m19-2 was engraved by Billie Weems after leaving factory.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
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Having deep family history in MA, I think I may have found my next unicorn.
If you find two, let me know. I'd like to have one because of my close connection to the MSP from my LEO days.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:48 AM
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This 3"er spent some time with Alvin White after it left the factory...





I knew Milton very well. I bought some great stuff from him over the years.
The last time I say him he was in a wheel chair.
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Old 12-03-2020, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
On a related topic, there was a discussion as to what constituted a “scarce” vs. “rare” gun, with no agreement on definition. The best one offered for rare was “I don’t have one”. By Roy Jinks.
In the coin world - rare is about frequency of occurrence, scarce is about demand, or the ratio of buyers to sellers.
Example - registered magnums. They aren't really rare considering the number made, but they are highly desired by collectors, so they are scarce.
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:00 AM
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I am concentrating on 19-2's as my focus for collecting, anything else is for my accumulation. That said, I once heard about a 3-inch 19-2 on this board IIRC. I figure I may be gone before I find one that I can afford. Especially in nickel since I want versions in each finish and each barrel length.
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Old 12-04-2020, 10:39 AM
Mike.45 Mike.45 is offline
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Wow, I never thought when I started this thread how amazing it would become !

Still awaiting photos and viewing this revolver. Apparently it was double action only at one stage as it was a law enforcement gun, but has been restored to double and single action......I dont think they bobbed the hammer but removed the single action sear on the bottom of the hammer so the SA feature was disabled.... so I assume now it has a replacement hammer.

I find it hard to believe any from the factory were DAO so I assume this was a local PD alteration.
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Old 12-04-2020, 10:43 AM
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There were a few departments that mandated dao revolvers and Smith obliged. The NYPD revolvers are arguably the most well known.

I hope you get photos soon and can post them, anxiously awaiting a view of this gun!
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Old 12-04-2020, 10:56 AM
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Lovely gun! And not to take anything away from it, but the letter struck a thought with me.

The collectors here seem to be all about originality. Yet this gun, ostensibly because it was "of importance in S&W history", went to an engraver and got made non-original.

Seems like a contradiction.
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
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Lovely gun! And not to take anything away from it, but the letter struck a thought with me.

The collectors here seem to be all about originality. Yet this gun, ostensibly because it was "of importance in S&W history", went to an engraver and got made non-original.

Seems like a contradiction.
Some collectors/enthusiasts/accumulators love guns in the original configuration that they left the factory. Some love guns that have been tastefully modified after they left the factory. And some of us like both... Alvin White, the engraver of the 3"er that I posted, was occasionaly commissioned by S&W to engrave guns for the factory. Such guns would letter as factory engraved. This was not one of those guns. Most likely, Mr. Walsh, a S&W representative, comissioned Alvin White to do the engraving after the gun left the factory. Regardless of when it was done, it is an unusual gun, very nicely engraved, and one of the favorites in my collection.
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:35 PM
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3" barrel, Model 19-2, shipped May 16, 1966. Engraved by John Warren.
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-left-jpg
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-right-jpg
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-lion-close-up-jpg
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-elk-close-up-jpg
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-pg-2-mod-19-jpg
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M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-left-jpg   M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-right-jpg   M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-lion-close-up-jpg   M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-elk-close-up-jpg   M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-pg-2-mod-19-jpg  

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Old 12-05-2020, 08:43 PM
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3" barrel, Model 19-2, shipped May 16, 1966. Engraved by John Warren.
M19 with a 3 inch barrel - is it rare ?-left-jpg
Karl:

That John Warren engraved 3"er has been one of my favorites since I saw it for auction. It is even more beautiful in person and was a wonderful one-gun display in Dallas. Thanks for sharing it here.
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shocker View Post
In the coin world - rare is about frequency of occurrence, scarce is about demand, or the ratio of buyers to sellers.
Example - registered magnums. They aren't really rare considering the number made, but they are highly desired by collectors, so they are scarce.
Well put!

True in other collector circles as well. Something can be scarce or rare, or both.
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Old 12-05-2020, 10:08 PM
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I'd love to be under that tree in the "fall"......Ben
After just this afternoon being beaned in the head by a falling white oak acorn while in the deer woods, I'd love to be observing that tree from a safe distance!
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Old 12-05-2020, 10:38 PM
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I'd rather be under it with a hard hat and a padded basket to catch them in.
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Old 01-07-2021, 12:14 PM
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OK thread update..... at last

Finally managed to get to pop over and see this beautiful 3 inch M19/2..... I was very excited to manage to get there to view it...walked in and as offered a coffee and naturally accepted whilst observing a cloth wrapped gun sitting on the living room table.... drank the coffee fast whilst making pleasant small talk before finally proclaiming I desperately wanted to see the gun.... he obliged and grabbed the bundled cloth and un-wrapped a very nice........ 4 inch M19/2....

Nice gun and probably about 80% condition.... Cokes were nice but altered with a thumb groove for a left handed shooter, quite nice alteration actually. I initially thought it was a speed loader relief cut on the grip, on the wrong side of the gun, which dumbfounded me until I held it in my left hand and it suddenly made sense.

Sadly wasn't the 3 inch as described. He just wasn't really a S&W guy and didn't figure out how long the barrel was so there was no intent to deceive at all, but at least I got to see a nice 19/2 and a free coffee to boot !
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Old 01-07-2021, 01:48 PM
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A bittersweet end to the story .
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:44 PM
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I have a model 19 "K-comp" with a 3" barrel.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:03 PM
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Is a 19-2 in 2 1/2 also rare?
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Old 01-09-2021, 12:44 AM
Loyaljeeper Loyaljeeper is online now
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Quote:
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Is a 19-2 in 2 1/2 also rare?
The 2.5 is not rare but it is desirable.
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:57 AM
JohnRippert JohnRippert is offline
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Quote:
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Is a 19-2 in 2 1/2 also rare?

I had never seen one in real life and only a few on GB. I think the above description of "scarce" covers it. I snapped this one off GB when I had the chance. Still need a 2.5inch blued, 4inch and 6inch nickel 19-2's to round out my collection since I do not expect to see any 3inch versions at prices I can afford.


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Old 01-09-2021, 11:20 AM
walter o walter o is offline
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This is my export made/Marked Carl Walther R 99

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Old 01-09-2021, 12:00 PM
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This is my export made/Marked Carl Walther R 99

Can you provide a little more information on this gun when time permits? I have never seen this variant before. When did it hit the market?
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Old 01-11-2021, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLT223 View Post
Can you provide a little more information on this gun when time permits? I have never seen this variant before. When did it hit the market?
1999 ...but they hit the German market, not the US.

It's a 3" (non-ported) 19-8 with a matte blue finish. S&W also made a 3" 66-5 for Carl Walther.
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Old 01-11-2021, 05:39 PM
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Default not a 3" 19 but

They offered them with a couple variations of a laser engraved P99 La Chasse pistol also with interchangeable back straps, two of them being wood.
Of course S&W introduced the SW99 in 1999 and its frame was made by Carl Walther.
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