Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-2021, 01:41 PM
S&W&J S&W&J is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 8 Posts
Default Going to Spurless Hammer?

I’ve been tossing around the idea of using a spurless or bobbed hammer on my inherited S&W 15-3. The double action is butter smooth but when cocked the single action is feather light.

My thinking is that for a home defense a spurless hammer would eliminate an accidental firing.

I know proper training is the answer but under stress who knows what could happen.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

Last edited by S&W&J; 02-11-2021 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 02-11-2021, 01:44 PM
ken158 ken158 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 4,669
Likes: 1,438
Liked 4,490 Times in 1,928 Posts
Default

Not a bad idea if that is the only job for your model but the SA can be adjusted by someone familiar with the process in a few minutes.
__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 02-11-2021, 01:46 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 3,606
Liked 5,199 Times in 2,172 Posts
Default

Leave the design of the gun alone and take defensive classes with your revolver. Learn to shoot double action in practice, and take up IDPA. That's what I did 25 years ago when IDPA started.
That's my best advice about revolvers, which I have shot most.
Trying to solve lack of training and experience with gun mods sounds like the most common reason people try IDPA and quit in frustration.
__________________
Science plus Art

Last edited by OKFC05; 02-11-2021 at 01:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 02-11-2021, 02:24 PM
Rpg Rpg is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Denver area
Posts: 6,225
Likes: 20,246
Liked 13,062 Times in 4,160 Posts
Default

The only reason I can imagine for bobbing the hammer is for pocket carry to avoid the hammer snagging as the gun is drawn.

Since OP’s question posits using the gun in a HD setting, as opposed to a concealed carry gun, there’s no practical benefit to bobbing the hammer.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:06 PM
saemetric's Avatar
saemetric saemetric is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Deming and Columbus, NM
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 1,146
Liked 4,257 Times in 848 Posts
Default

My model 36 can be either gender, with or without. I had the factory fit a DAO hammer.








Last edited by saemetric; 02-13-2021 at 12:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:14 PM
S&W&J S&W&J is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLYDE View Post
If the gun is for home defense gun and has to be used.....having the hammer bobbed will be an extreme benefit.

An over zealous prosecutors claim of a cocked single action negligent discharge will be taken off of the table.

Any revolver I use for defense has a bobbed DAO hammer. I normally carry an older Ruger SP101 9mm. I sent it to Ruger in New Hampshire and had them fit a DAO hammer. I retained the work order for proof that the gun was Factory serviced.

OP....I'm 100% with you.

Klyde
That's my thinking Klyde.
It's more of a home defense legal concern for me and my wife.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:46 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 4
Liked 8,885 Times in 4,121 Posts
Default

Opinions vary. Bobbing a hammer may sound like a great idea for several reasons, none of which are good or practical. If the thoughts of home defense gunfighting and "over zealous" prosecutors become obsessive, you may be better off with something other than a gun for defense. There's a difference between reasonable preparedness and paranoia.

If you have a concern about a hammer snagging when you draw, carry a revolver with a hammer for five or ten years then carry one without a hammer for the same length of time and compare how often "snagging" occurred. I doubt you'll see any difference, even if it seems like there would be.

As for reliable functioning, a revolver with a bobbed hammer may be as reliable as one with an unmolested hammer, but it won't be better. Shoot often using good technique and learn to shoot well. Your earned confidence will likely overshadow any need for gun gadgetry.

I have no idea what "woke" means but apparently it's not what happens after you've slept eight hours.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-11-2021, 04:47 PM
Shrek Of The Arctic Shrek Of The Arctic is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 225
Likes: 233
Liked 733 Times in 156 Posts
Default

I'm gunna advocate for spurless. On general principle, I'm a believer that a designated fighting handgun should have everything it needs, and nothing that it doesn't. Broadly speaking, I don't see a purpose for thumb cocking a double action revolver. I'm sure there's an exception to the rule somewhere; some guy that figgers they might need to make the "Elmer Keith" shot for protection, but it sure ain't me, or anyone I know.

Addditionally, knowing that old Mr. Murphy loves to tag along on just about any ole adrenaline charged, adventure, I'd remove it. It's one less opportunity for something to go wrong. No matter how hard we train and prepare, unexpected things happen when the feces hits the oscillating device. Even if the OP is a cold blooded machine whose pulse doesn't increase if faced with uninvited thugs in his living room, what about his spouse, or other authorized users with access to the weapon?

On a somewhat related note, I've found DAO revolvers to be fantastic for getting even the most stubborn of thumb cocking enthusiasts. My Father was with the Pheonix PD in the sixties, when they taught Officers to thum cock their revolvers, I thought he'd never get away from thumb cocking until he shot some of my DAO revolvers and realized they really aint that bad once you practice a little bit.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:27 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 4
Liked 8,885 Times in 4,121 Posts
Default

I suppose I'm in a minority here as I don't see a revolver's sole use as being defensive weaponry and can't see handicapping it's use by bobbing a hammer. For many years I fired handguns using two hands, apparently like 99% of those here. About twenty years ago, I began practicing bullseye-style single-action shooting using strong hand only at 25 yards, sometimes 50, but 50 is still difficult for me to do well. I've learned a great deal about shooting technique but am far from an expert.

It's very easy to revert back to up close, second-nature two-handed shooting with revolver or semi-auto with no loss in skill; in fact, one can't help but show some improvement. I'm not attempting to make converts of the combat crowd, but bullseye shooting helps sharpen shooting skills overall but when you put two hands on a grip, there is no urge to thumb back a hammer and fire single action.

I've also found out just how well a snubnose J-frame .38 will shoot at 25 yards. I think this will surprise many once they gain sufficient skill. I'm well aware of the "gunfights occur up close" argument, but that's just an excuse to avoid improving shooting skills. There are enjoyable facets of shooting besides gunfighting and defense.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:51 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,840
Likes: 7,401
Liked 8,059 Times in 3,654 Posts
Default

Capitan Obvious says ... You don't have to cock the gun just because it has a hammer spur ... leave the gun uncocked when you hear something go bump in the night and simply shoot DA if you have too .
Or is that answer obviously too simple ?
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:26 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Some time in the later years of the revolver era, NYPD required its revolvers to be converted to DA only, after a patrolman cocked a Model 10 pointed at an unarmed suspect and then touched off a round unintentionally wth fatal results. I think that there was a similar LAPD policy at some point too.

I doubt that either or any department ever trained officers to cock their revolvers while holding suspects at gunpoint.

But officers are people too, who grow up watching the same ****** movies and cop shows where actors cock their revolvers (and when technically possible pistols) all the time to enhance their threatening appearance or reinforce orders. And under stress people have a tendency to revert subconsciously to stuff like that.

I wouldn’t worry about lawyers, I’d worry about killing someone. If you think you might start cocking the hammer in a stress situation even though you know that’s a dumb thing to do, maybe because you practice a lot of single-action target shooting, removing that possibility from your primary defense gun might not be a bad idea.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:42 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 13,628
Likes: 12,745
Liked 39,106 Times in 9,970 Posts
Default

My regular carry guns are spurless. Just what do I need a hammer spur on them for anyway? I never practice with them single action and never plan to use them that way. Why do you think S&W sell so many hammerless models, if they are not practical?
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:49 PM
crstrode's Avatar
crstrode crstrode is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Free side of Washington
Posts: 819
Likes: 691
Liked 1,667 Times in 542 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
Opinions vary. Bobbing a hammer may sound like a great idea for several reasons, none of which are good or practical. If the thoughts of home defense gunfighting and "over zealous" prosecutors become obsessive, you may be better off with something other than a gun for defense. There's a difference between reasonable preparedness and paranoia.

If you have a concern about a hammer snagging when you draw, carry a revolver with a hammer for five or ten years then carry one without a hammer for the same length of time and compare how often "snagging" occurred. I doubt you'll see any difference, even if it seems like there would be.

As for reliable functioning, a revolver with a bobbed hammer may be as reliable as one with an unmolested hammer, but it won't be better. Shoot often using good technique and learn to shoot well. Your earned confidence will likely overshadow any need for gun gadgetry.

I have no idea what "woke" means but apparently it's not what happens after you've slept eight hours.
Hallelujah! If I could like this more bigly I would surely do so.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 02-11-2021, 08:33 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,584
Likes: 1,789
Liked 5,345 Times in 2,688 Posts
Default

OK, having shot revolvers extensively, they do in fact, occasionally fail to function as intended. The most expedient cure for most malfunctions is to reach up and give the hammer spur a hearty yank to advance the cylinder, free the trigger and continue with problem solving. To do this, you need a hammer spur.

Secondly, said overzealous prosecutor will be pleased to have someone demonstrate that a hammer without a spur CAN be cocked and produce the "hair trigger" that led to what they claim is a negligent discharge rather than an intentional self defense act.

Producing a true DAO revolver involves either fitting a DAO hammer or PROPER removal of the single action notch from the existing hammer. I've seen a couple of ingenious efforts that removed the single action capability while compromising the DAO action. Ain't rocket science, but does require both knowledge and care.

If you're going to do anything, I'd go with having someone who knows what they're about either fit a DAO hammer or buy another hammer and have it converted to DAO and fitted. Save the current hammer for restoration to heirloom status.

Last edited by WR Moore; 02-13-2021 at 01:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 02-12-2021, 01:54 AM
Grayfox's Avatar
Grayfox Grayfox is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bartlett, Tennessee
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 2,924
Liked 18,640 Times in 4,777 Posts
Default

You have a fine old, collectible revolver there. DON"T SCREW IT UP!
For home defense distances there's no reason to cock the hammer. So just don't. Learn how to properly shoot the gun in DA mode and simply use it that way.
I've always hated bobbed hammers. Why deprive yourself of an option even though it may rarely or never be needed? I like every option I can get.
If you were carrying the gun daily, then maybe bob it. I don't and won't bob any of mine. The theoretical "hanging up on clothing" issue has never once happened to me. Learn how to do a proper draw.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 02-12-2021, 11:30 AM
Jon651 Jon651 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 1,699
Liked 4,140 Times in 1,282 Posts
Default

There are lots of valuable opinions on both sides of this debate here. As usual (according to my wife, at least...) I'm going to split the difference:

I believe that you should NOT use a spurless hammer unless you are concerned about snagging. If you are not concerned about snagging then just don't cock the hammer - even in practice.

As for the legal perspective, unless there is a "recognized authority" who advocates carrying around a SA/DA pistol like yours with the hammer cocked back while you are searching your home in the dark after being woken up from a dead sleep (and I would hope that there isn't...), then I don't think either leaving it in DA or getting a spurless hammer will make much of a difference to even the most overzealous district attorney. As a member of a jury, I wouldn't think that making your firearm LESS likely to be accidently discharged would ever be a strike against you.

Just my two cents worth...
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 02-12-2021, 11:51 AM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 2,232
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,091 Posts
Default

Just to add to the discussion, apparently with the adoption of the 360, police in Japan were trained to always use single-action. They felt the gain in accuracy (safer for bystanders) outweighed the other aspects.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 02-12-2021, 11:53 AM
Baltimoreed11754's Avatar
Baltimoreed11754 Baltimoreed11754 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 636
Liked 2,035 Times in 709 Posts
Default

The spur on a revolver on a lot of belt holsters is part of the retention system in that a strap with a snap goes behind the hammer to hold the gun. It’s unsnapped with the thumb as the gun is drawn. But in a true pocket holster there are no straps as the pocket is the retention. My pocket revolvers are bobbed. I hope that I never have to draw my firearm in an emergency but why take a chance on the hammer snagging anything. One of my practice drills is feeling for the spot in the trigger pull right before it breaks. Why disturb your grip to unnecessarily cock the gun. For a bump in the night DA revolver there’s really no need to bob the hammer.

Last edited by Baltimoreed11754; 02-12-2021 at 12:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 02-12-2021, 11:57 AM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 4
Liked 8,885 Times in 4,121 Posts
Default

Again, opinions vary, and there are exceptions, but generally, like a grip adaptor, bobbed hammers have more cosmetic appeal than a real usefulness.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 02-12-2021, 12:29 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

From the gun‘s point of view:

A Model 15-3 with a bobbed or completely spurless hammer is going to look horrible and it will significantly lower the value if you ever need to sell it; actually, few people will want it at any price.

If you decide to go that route, follow the previously mentioned recommendation and have a gunsmith swap out the original hammer for a spurless one, make the gun DA-only, but keeping the part so you can reverse the process.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:04 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
Banned
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: CA via TX, WY, AR
Posts: 587
Likes: 616
Liked 856 Times in 315 Posts
Default

I have a double action only S&W 625-8 .45 ACP Apex Tactical Specialties with a spurless hammer and love mine.

Here is a pic from when I bought it.



Here is what Apex Tactical Specialties told me:

If you keep your stock rebound spring installed and keep the mainspring strain screw tightened, you can even maintain a similar trigger pull weight compared to the stock set up.

Last edited by YkcorCal; 02-12-2021 at 02:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:06 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 2,478
Liked 13,059 Times in 4,536 Posts
Default

Okay, from a legal perspective, and I'm licensed to do that (where is Cajun lawyer when I need him?), the so-called over zealous prosecutor is essentially a myth. I do not have a problem with concealed hammers, bobbed hammers, whatever, but a "righteous" self defense shooting is just that, and is what is known in the law as a justifiable homicide.

To be clear, if you believe that you are being threatened with serious bodily harm or death then you are justified in using lethal force. That's the whole story. It doesn't matter what gun, what caliber, what anything - justifiable is just that, no more, no less. Tinkering with a handgun to avoid lawyers is just plain silly.

However, if you put yourself in a position where your lethal force was accidentally used because you did something stupid, like cocking the hammer of your revolver and having a negligent discharge, then DO NOT COCK THE HAMMER. Remember, there are a host of firearms out there that can only be fired with cocked hammers so there is a whole separate discussion for those guns. And the word TRAINING comes to mind.

The fact that your gun can be cocked does NOT MEAN that you should do it. I am not sure what the Japanese were doing with cocked hammers but, again, the implication of training is involved. And they're not here in America dealing with our laws, anyway, so who cares what they do in Japan, anyway?

Leave your pretty gun alone, as is, learn to use it correctly, or get a different gun.

Concealed carry:

Pocket:



Belt:



Home defense:



I would never change that hammer and I would never cock it in the house.
__________________
Come and take it!!

Last edited by ISCS Yoda; 02-12-2021 at 02:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:12 PM
ISCS Yoda's Avatar
ISCS Yoda ISCS Yoda is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 2,478
Liked 13,059 Times in 4,536 Posts
Default

Side note:
Quote:
I know proper training is the answer but under stress who knows what could happen.
That's exactly why you train yourself to NEVER cock the hammer. A revolver's second best safety is the long trigger pull - you lose that when you cock the hammer and under stress that is exactly when you'll have a negligent discharge.

Okay, who is going to ask me what the first best safety is? Come on, you all know it............
__________________
Come and take it!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:31 PM
crazyphil crazyphil is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 8,002
Likes: 35,764
Liked 29,650 Times in 6,014 Posts
Default

If you do decide to go spurless, it's a good idea to go like saemetric did
and have a factory spurless hammer installed. I had a couple of revolvers
that I had wacked the spur off the hammer. When I went to sell them it
counted against me. I still have one revolver with a spurless hammer,
shown below. My Colt's Agent. Craig Spegel grips.

Offhand I can think of a couple of good reasons to go spurless.
One is the snagging, which may not happen often, but it could
happen at the worst possilbe time.
Second, a spur on the hammer will chew up the lining of your
suit jacket, unless you have a "dog ear" on your holster.
I don't need a "dog ear" holster with my Agent, beccause it
doesn't have a spur, so 3rd from left is shown my Charter Arms
Undercover in a Heiser Model 459 with the "dog ear".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SAM_0368.jpg (38.6 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg SAM_1419.jpg (88.2 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg SAM_0878.jpg (91.0 KB, 32 views)
__________________
In Omnia Paratus

Last edited by crazyphil; 02-12-2021 at 02:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:57 PM
gunsnrovers gunsnrovers is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lost in Los Angeles
Posts: 107
Likes: 153
Liked 365 Times in 73 Posts
Default

I'm unashamedly biased. Go for it.

This M15 came to me 2nd hand. Previous owner set it up for his wife for purse carry with a bobbed hammer and smooth faced trigger.

The work was not done very nicely, but the gun was solid and the tigger nice. For the price I paid, I knew I could bump it up a little and have it as a good shooter and sexy as well and still be in good shape for the $.

__________________
- Jeff

Last edited by gunsnrovers; 02-12-2021 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 02-12-2021, 02:59 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,330
Likes: 7,503
Liked 5,557 Times in 2,547 Posts
Default

I agree with the OP's thinking, and I believe that he should purchase a spare hammer and bob it. However, I have several caveats.

Senior Chief Yoda speaks wisely when he says to train yourself never to cock the hammer. In that case, there is no drawback to bobbing and making DAO a spare hammer. Also, making the revolver DAO will cover you if your training hasn't yet completely wiped out your SA history when a moment unexpectedly comes when you NEED the revolver.

You will have to practice a lot with DA.

Your spare hammer, obviously, should have the SA notch removed along with the spur.

If your spare hammer is not drop-in (after spur and SA notch removal), it probably will be if you install the original DA sear.

A spurious claim of accidental discharge after cocking may not be common, but it HAS happened, and is EXACTLY what led numerous PD's to go DAO. It is a personal choice whether a fear of such a claim should affect your decision, but IMO you already have enough reason to go DAO; eliminating the threat of such a claim is just a freebie.

As pointed out above, many holsters rely on the spur. If this is important to you, you can have your spare hammer made DAO without bobbing.

You've got an excellent idea. I recommend that you practice DAO shooting, and go with it.
__________________
Formerly Model520Fan

Last edited by ImprovedModel56Fan; 02-12-2021 at 03:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 02-12-2021, 03:23 PM
two-bit cowboy's Avatar
two-bit cowboy two-bit cowboy is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: trail's end in ol' Wyo
Posts: 7,207
Likes: 17,367
Liked 18,222 Times in 5,014 Posts
Default

Several folks have touted the first best option: training, training, training.

When I was young I only shot in single action because I "believed" it was more accurate.

Now, 40 or more years later, I only shoot double action. More importantly, I train and practice ambidextrously.

Here's a brace of civilian factory DAO Chiefs Specials (ca. 1989) that followed the NYPD order for one in this configuration. One for each hand! The actions on both are a pure delight.

It's your revolver. Make yourself happy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DAO Chiefs - L (2).jpg (138.5 KB, 42 views)
__________________
Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 02-12-2021, 04:33 PM
NavySCPO's Avatar
NavySCPO NavySCPO is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Carrollton GA
Posts: 769
Likes: 1,862
Liked 2,067 Times in 435 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Side note:


That's exactly why you train yourself to NEVER cock the hammer. A revolver's second best safety is the long trigger pull - you lose that when you cock the hammer and under stress that is exactly when you'll have a negligent discharge.

Okay, who is going to ask me what the first best safety is? Come on, you all know it............
Alright Senior, you know you want to, get it out! 😜
__________________
Danny
SWCA #3370 - SWHF #672
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 02-12-2021, 04:47 PM
EldoEsq EldoEsq is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island
Posts: 90
Likes: 114
Liked 140 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Bobbed this 36 with a dremel about 10 years ago...cost me 175, it had alot of cosmetic wear and worn grips, but was tight and had a sweet trigger. Pocket carried this for about 10 years before I got a 340pd!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 02-12-2021, 07:04 PM
grover99 grover99 is offline
US Veteran
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 370
Liked 2,760 Times in 681 Posts
Default

Owned an M66 smith with very light SA trigger pull. So light that I blew some leaves off a tree more than once bringing the gun down on line with the target. Always could shoot better DA than SA with it. It would have been crazy to cock that gun in self-defense situation. Just made it a habit to never cock that gun.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 02-12-2021, 07:31 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,584
Likes: 1,789
Liked 5,345 Times in 2,688 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Okay, from a legal perspective, and I'm licensed to do that (where is Cajun lawyer when I need him?), the so-called over zealous prosecutor is essentially a myth.
While I don't have brother Yoda's qualifications, I'd like to respectfully point out the 1982 case of the State of Florida (?) vs Luis Alvarez of the Miami PD. This is the case that led LA, Miami and NYPD to render their revolvers DAO.

Last edited by WR Moore; 02-13-2021 at 05:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #32  
Old 02-12-2021, 08:09 PM
YkcorCal YkcorCal is offline
Banned
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: CA via TX, WY, AR
Posts: 587
Likes: 616
Liked 856 Times in 315 Posts
Default

Even Jerry Miculek recommends removing the hammer for a proper high grip for optimal recoil control in rapid fire; so who am I to argue?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #33  
Old 02-13-2021, 01:11 PM
Bumpus13's Avatar
Bumpus13 Bumpus13 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 851
Likes: 3,242
Liked 2,117 Times in 546 Posts
Default

The bottom line is: It’s YOUR gun, you may configure it as you wish.

But it sounds to me like you have a confidence issue, not an equipment issue. Bobbed hammers are for avoiding snagging your clothing, not avoiding poor decision making.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #34  
Old 02-13-2021, 01:12 PM
Bumpus13's Avatar
Bumpus13 Bumpus13 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 851
Likes: 3,242
Liked 2,117 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YkcorCal View Post
Even Jerry Miculek recommends removing the hammer for a proper high grip for optimal recoil control in rapid fire; so who am I to argue?
Probably not.


(methinks you left the word “spur” out. &#128514
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #35  
Old 02-14-2021, 03:51 PM
S&W&J S&W&J is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the opinions. Good reading and I learned what a single action notch is.

The more I thought about it and after researching buying a used trigger to cut the spur off, I decided to leave the S&W alone. It has too much sentimental value and is in great shape. Too bad I don’t have any family to pass it on too. She’s a real beauty.

The gun is more for my wife to use and that it my main concern. When at the range with my .357 Ruger, she preferred single action over double action. I never thought to help her break that habit. My bad. Back to the range when ammo is available… in a couple of years. She’s shot the Ruger for 25 years and with .38 loaded she is very accurate with it.

I have a vintage Glock 21 that I’ve shot for 30 years and comfortable with.

I’ll get her to a range to try a true DOA S&W or Ruger revolver and see if that works better for her. She has no interest in semi-autos.

Last edited by S&W&J; 02-15-2021 at 11:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-14-2021, 04:20 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 14,499
Liked 9,264 Times in 3,702 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
While I don't have brother Yoda's qualifications, I'd like to respectfully point out the 1982 case of the State of Florida (?) vs Luis Alvarez of the Miami PD. This is the case that led LA, Miami and NYPD to render their revolvers DAO.
*
And this was a frivolous prosecution by an unethical prosecutor (I don't like the term over zealous as it understates the conduct problem). What you have to consider, in addition to the concern about the DA/SA vs. DAO, is the local prosecutorial culture. If you live someplace that the prosecuting attorney has been influenced by the "progressive prosecutor" garbage, you had best keep it in mind. My county, we respond poorly to that stuff. On the bad side of MP 52, in King County, one has a real risk of such a prosecution. There is one going on right now.

Living in a particular state is not a protection as a general rule. You could have a kook prosecutor in office regardless of the general culture of the state. The prosecution of Officer Betty Shelby in Tulsa is a good example - that was a pure self-defense shooting and it is my firm belief based on my education and background that the prosecutor should have been disbarred and senior TPD staff fired for their treatment of her. The prosecution in Minneapolis is the same - knowingly fabricated.

If one is not comfortable with having DA/SA capability, that's the only assessment that matters. If I had the OP's circumstances and concerns, I would have a factory DAO conversion, keep the original pieces if I cared about the collector fetishists, and drive on.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #37  
Old 02-14-2021, 04:28 PM
haywood's Avatar
haywood haywood is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 9,367
Liked 2,711 Times in 992 Posts
Default

I only carry Snubs. All are DAO except my 3” 36. I only shoot DAO
__________________
Two Handguns every day
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-14-2021, 04:29 PM
diyj98 diyj98 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: WV
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 391
Liked 2,828 Times in 1,258 Posts
Default

I've bobbed hammers for pocket carry, but I'd never bob one just because I didn't want to cock it. Just don't cock it. The internet tells us not to cock a firearm for single action fire in a self defense shooting, but I remember about 30 years ago a local guy saved a woman's life by cocking his Walther ppk and shooting her abductor in the head. I know that may be a one in a million happening, but I'd have sure felt better squeezing off that shot single action than using my ninja skills to pull through that heavy double action and risk not hitting the woman.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-14-2021, 07:04 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyj98 View Post
... but I remember about 30 years ago a local guy saved a woman's life by cocking his Walther ppk and shooting her abductor in the head. I know that may be a one in a million happening, but I'd have sure felt better squeezing off that shot single action than using my ninja skills to pull through that heavy double action and risk not hitting the woman.
It doesn’t have to be anything as dramatic as that.

I chatted about this with a friend the other day who retired after a lengthy LE career. He said he fired his service weapon “for effect” on only a couple occasions during his time on duty, at aggressive dogs. A Model 66 and later a 4006. Both he cocked for a single carefully aimed shot.

So there should be a good reason to limit your options. The OP’s thinking appears reasonable.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-15-2021, 02:25 AM
NavySCPO's Avatar
NavySCPO NavySCPO is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Carrollton GA
Posts: 769
Likes: 1,862
Liked 2,067 Times in 435 Posts
Default

Single Action can be very hazardous... Witness “The Silence of the Lambs”.

Seriously, if the Bad Guy had not cocked his Colt, Jodie Foster (aka an almost FBI Special Agent) would have been a goner, then what? He gets away with it! The girl in the well gets fattened up, Hannibal has dinner with Dr. Chilton...You see an upside here?

Oh never mind, I saw the movie today, couldn’t help myself.
__________________
Danny
SWCA #3370 - SWHF #672
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-15-2021, 09:15 AM
WVfishguy's Avatar
WVfishguy WVfishguy is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 445
Likes: 12
Liked 47 Times in 17 Posts
Default Not a Smith, but...

I also like bobbed hammers for carry. I put a spurless hammer on this Ruger Speed Six (from Brownells - sorry it's not a Smith!). When you put this kind hammer on old Rugers it it actually changes the action ; it no longer locks up for single action, and the pull is just one smooth movement. Again, I apologize for this not being a S&W.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ruger speed Six.jpg (146.4 KB, 23 views)
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member

Last edited by WVfishguy; 02-15-2021 at 09:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-15-2021, 10:00 AM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A Burb of the Burgh
Posts: 14,750
Likes: 1,616
Liked 19,852 Times in 8,773 Posts
Default

I've had both for 35 years now.......with a DAO 3" 65 customized in 1985, and DA/SA 686s and a 3" 66 since the same period.

I trained and qualified DAO out to 20/25 yds. IMO I'd go DA in a defense shooting....... all Carry my autos are DA/SA to give me that long DA first shot.....

That said I've shot SA on the range out to 50 yds...... hunted Pa. deer with a handgun single action shots.

It's all about how you train and when the SHTF you will fall back on your training...................................
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:33 AM
Bumpus13's Avatar
Bumpus13 Bumpus13 is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 851
Likes: 3,242
Liked 2,117 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grover99 View Post
Owned an M66 smith with very light SA trigger pull. So light that I blew some leaves off a tree more than once bringing the gun down on line with the target. Always could shoot better DA than SA with it. It would have been crazy to cock that gun in self-defense situation. Just made it a habit to never cock that gun.
Then you should probably keep your finger off of the trigger before you’re on target.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-24-2021, 09:46 AM
jimmyj's Avatar
jimmyj jimmyj is offline
Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,102
Likes: 1,690
Liked 16,304 Times in 4,232 Posts
Default

My primary reason for CCW a spurless revolver is not having the spur scratch my lower arm and wear the inside of my coat/jacket.
(I am also a old "thumb cocker" but have found double action better for combat shooting)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #45  
Old 06-24-2021, 01:55 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
SWCA Member
Going to Spurless Hammer? Going to Spurless Hammer?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 636
Liked 6,864 Times in 2,542 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Some time in the later years of the revolver era, NYPD required its revolvers to be converted to DA only, after a patrolman cocked a Model 10 pointed at an unarmed suspect and then touched off a round unintentionally wth fatal results. I think that there was a similar LAPD policy at some point too.

I doubt that either or any department ever trained officers to cock their revolvers while holding suspects at gunpoint.

But officers are people too, who grow up watching the same ****** movies and cop shows where actors cock their revolvers (and when technically possible pistols) all the time to enhance their threatening appearance or reinforce orders. And under stress people have a tendency to revert subconsciously to stuff like that.

I wouldn’t worry about lawyers, I’d worry about killing someone. If you think you might start cocking the hammer in a stress situation even though you know that’s a dumb thing to do, maybe because you practice a lot of single-action target shooting, removing that possibility from your primary defense gun might not be a bad idea.
I’m retired NYPD and familiar with the incident that brought the DAO revolvers into play, but the job never converted revolvers. Those who owned the spurred hammer guns capable of firing in SA kept them and were grandfathered in to carry them. New officers hired as of July 1987 had the DAO revolvers. But you’re right, thumb cocking was never taught, but I do know if a few guys who thumb cocked a revolver to fire it. Some kid fell into the polar bear exhibit at the zoo and was being eaten by the bear. Patrol cop first in scene leaned over the fence and placed a well aimed single action shot from his revolver into the bear and killed it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
**FOUND** Spurless MIM hammer 18DAI WANTED to Buy 0 10-18-2020 01:03 PM
MIM spurless hammer? stantheman86 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 1 03-07-2013 03:39 PM
Spurless Hammer, 4506 microwave Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 4 10-15-2011 03:13 AM
WTB spurless hammer Mod 60 NRA RSO WANTED to Buy 1 07-20-2010 09:16 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)