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02-25-2021, 12:46 PM
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What would you buy and why?
I am looking for my next revolver, and the topic of this thread crosses over the older revolvers but there isn't a general revolver section so I posted it here. Looking for advice, and an open discussion with opinions on why you feel the way you do...
I bought a 617, K frame .22 a couple weeks ago, and I am realizing I like that size frame a lot, and I would like to get a classic .38 special in a K frame size. I like 4", for not other real reason other than they look symmetric to me. I'm not opposed to a 6" barrel, I just like 4" barrels better.
Couple shops near me have some older .38 specials in stock -
Military and Police .38 revolver, refinished 1926 police trade in, with "property of XYZ police dept" on it (don't know the barrel length)
similar era Military and police .38 special revolver, 6" barrel blued, 4 screw, wood grips
Pre model 15 .38 special, 4 in barrel wood grips
Pre model 20 .38 Special 4 in barrel blued rubber grips
K38, wood grips 6" barrel
All of these options are running between $700-1000 right now, But I wanted pro's and con's to each....
Should I not go with an old police trade in from the 1920's as it could be banged up? Is a model 10 that much better than the original Military and police 38's? should I look for a model 15?
I am not looking for necessarily the most collectible models, I know they all hold resale value pretty well, just looking for a good quality blued old school .38 special revolver that I can shoot whenever I want without worrying about it cracking or having to baby it. I know in general all the older blued Smiths are good quality, but like feedback from other shooters.
I am also looking for a 638 or old blued Bodyguard .38 (before the plasticy double action only bodyguards they have now), and a snubnose blued .22LR revolver... Haven't seen that latter 2 in my locale in a long time.
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02-25-2021, 12:54 PM
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Of the ones listed the one that would grab my eye would be the Pre-15.
The pre-20 sounds interesting too.
What are the conditions? Lock up tight? etc?
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02-25-2021, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quikdraw67
Of the ones listed the one that would grab my eye would be the Pre-15.
The pre-20 sounds interesting too.
What are the conditions? Lock up tight? etc?
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Don't know, haven't looked at them yet. The shop that has them doesn't clean firearms when they take them in on trade, they usually just resell them, and fast too. Super high volume. Right now the good thing is not many people are looking for revolvers (except 22's it seems)- all looking for sub $300- 400 polymer guns... I am planning to look at them tomorrow afternoon. I don't really want to spend $1000 on one, prefer to stay around $800 and below, but prices are all over the map right now. Some shops have similar pricing to what they used to, some are way overpriced...
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02-25-2021, 01:06 PM
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"I just like 4" barrels better...
...Pre model 15 .38 special, 4 in barrel wood grips"
You want a 4" barrel, I want adjustable sights.
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02-25-2021, 01:10 PM
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Greetings! Since you haven't really identified a purpose for your 38, I'll presume it is purely collection oriented.
I would lean towards the K38, especially if it had the 3Ts (target: trigger, hammer, and stocks). I find the K38 6" models to be superbly accurate with mild 38 Special target loads. A pound of Bullseye and over 2000 wadcutters will last a long time and provide exceptional enjoyment. Also, most who have owned K38s have tended to baby them as bullseye target revolvers.
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02-25-2021, 01:20 PM
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Of those you list I'd be looking at the pre-20 although that is an N frame 38 Special rather than a K frame 38 Special. An original finish Heavy Duty without reamed cylinders in good mechanical condition, even with rubber grips, would be worth in the $1k+ range.
None of the others as described would be worth $700-$1000. Even in today's market you should be able to find a M15 in $500-$600 range. Good luck.
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02-25-2021, 01:28 PM
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I would look at K38 pre 14, and M14 through -4 modification
These are 6" and 38sp
M19 through -4 in 6 or 4" barrels
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02-25-2021, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman
Greetings! Since you haven't really identified a purpose for your 38, I'll presume it is purely collection oriented.
I would lean towards the K38, especially if it had the 3Ts (target: trigger, hammer, and stocks). I find the K38 6" models to be superbly accurate with mild 38 Special target loads. A pound of Bullseye and over 2000 wadcutters will last a long time and provide exceptional enjoyment. Also, most who have owned K38s have tended to baby them as bullseye target revolvers.
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Yes, collection oriented. I will see what the K38 looks like.
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02-25-2021, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
Of those you list I'd be looking at the pre-20 although that is an N frame 38 Special rather than a K frame 38 Special. An original finish Heavy Duty without reamed cylinders in good mechanical condition, even with rubber grips, would be worth in the $1k+ range.
None of the others as described would be worth $700-$1000. Even in today's market you should be able to find a M15 in $500-$600 range. Good luck.
Jeff
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In my area, revolvers are pretty expensive. Always have been. I look online once in a while, but they have to be more than $200 cheaper in a lot of cases for me to consider buying online. There is something to be said for holding one, but after all that, I have to pay shipping, and $40 or more for transfer and taxes... So if I pay $100 more or $150 more locally, and can walk out the door with it in my hand, I don't mind... More than that, I will consider buying online.
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02-25-2021, 02:53 PM
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You wrote: I would like to get a classic .38 special in a K frame size. I like 4"
Congrats, that is the most common police and security trade-in. Models 10 and 64 were the bread and butter guns that I’ve bought in the $300 range in the last 12 months (mail order super pawn and GT Distributors). Shooters, but decent. I’d expect to pay more at an LGS.
Personally, you might drill down to what you really want. Heavy barrel? Certain model numbers, like 10-1, 10-3, 10-6 and 10-8, as well as 64-3 and 64-5. Pinned barrel? Probably before ‘82. Adjustable sights? Well, that pretty much takes you out of the trade-in guns, and back into civilian guns traded in to an LGS.
Last edited by Justamessenger; 02-25-2021 at 02:54 PM.
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02-25-2021, 03:19 PM
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Find yourself a nice Model 67. You won’t be sorry. Oops, I just reread your post and see you want a blued gun. I still say get a 67.
Last edited by bigmoose; 02-25-2021 at 03:22 PM.
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02-25-2021, 03:48 PM
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Out of those listed, the Heavy Duty would be what I was interested in, but I am into N frames. The others sound overpriced to me, but I haven't really shopped for guns since the recent changes.
If I was in your shoes, I would seriously consider a 686 (or 586/681/581) in .357 Magnum. They are slightly beefier than the K frame guns and fire both .357 & .38 Special - so you have more options when ammo is scarce. 4" barrel is the most common configuration.
I prefer pre-lock guns myself. I'm also not a fan of 2 piece barrels.
If you want a 4" K frame, the choices have already been mentioned. You just have to figure out what you want or what you can get:
- Blue or Stainless (Nickel is also available but uncommon)
- Fixed or Adjustable sites
- Tapered or Heavy barrel
- .357 Magnum capable?
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02-25-2021, 03:54 PM
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My Model 67 is my favorite 38 Special. In your group the Model 15 is the one I'd pick. I have both and shoot the Model 67 three times as much as the 15.
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02-25-2021, 03:58 PM
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The M15 is one of S&W's best efforts. 4" bbl, but getting tough to find for 500-600, depending on the condition you want. I have 4. I only have one K38 pre 14, because it is a birth year gun. I got my 1949, and sold my 1950 to someone that wanted a birth year gun.
You cannot go wrong with the K-38 pre 14 or the M14 through -4. Figure out what you want, and place an ad in the " want to buy" section of this forum.
A majority of my guns come from this forum.
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02-25-2021, 04:00 PM
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One of my several favorite shooters has a 4" barrel. It is a K-38 Combat Masterpiece (Pre-Model 15). Why, I don't really know other than it just feels right. There is absolutely nothing negative about it.
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02-25-2021, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justamessenger
You wrote: I would like to get a classic .38 special in a K frame size. I like 4"
Congrats, that is the most common police and security trade-in. Models 10 and 64 were the bread and butter guns that I’ve bought in the $300 range in the last 12 months (mail order super pawn and GT Distributors). Shooters, but decent. I’d expect to pay more at an LGS.
Personally, you might drill down to what you really want. Heavy barrel? Certain model numbers, like 10-1, 10-3, 10-6 and 10-8, as well as 64-3 and 64-5. Pinned barrel? Probably before ‘82. Adjustable sights? Well, that pretty much takes you out of the trade-in guns, and back into civilian guns traded in to an LGS.
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So I don't care so much about model or pinned barrel etc... again, I am looking for a good shooter.
Has to be blued
Has to be .38 special (I guess 357 would be ok too)
Adjustable sights would be nice, but not a must have.
I don't mind police trade-ins, I like weathered guns as long as they're functional 100% and not rusty. Ive dealt with one or two that were rusty, and they were a pain...
I guess I need to do more searching on what I want most. I like the look of the 10's, the 19's - I don't know enough about the intricacies of the dash models to know which ones are good bad etc... I love the 29's as well.
I think I was looking more for guidance so when I am in a store and pick one up, I don't buy a model that has known issues. I want to make sure I buy something I won't have trouble with. Realistically, i may only put 400-500 rounds a year through it (if even that with todays ammo issues)
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02-25-2021, 06:47 PM
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One caution -- you said you really like the feel of the K-Frames.
As mentioned, the M20 is an N-Frame.
The last few months, I had only been handling and shooting a couple of K-Frames.
When I saw a chance to order an older WWI N-Frame, I bought it. I was amazed at how much bigger and heavier it felt!
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02-25-2021, 06:55 PM
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"I love the 29's as well."
Then I would look at the pre-20.
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02-25-2021, 07:36 PM
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Condition is everything. A good older revolver at a higher price beats a worn but cheap gun any day. Be sure to examine them all carefully and go with the best for the buck.
personally, I'd be all over the Pre-20. But you're looking for a K-frame. Second choice would be the pre-15. Everything you want plus adjustable sights.
Then again go with your gut. Sometimes a gun just speaks to you.
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02-25-2021, 08:08 PM
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Me? The 15. Why? Sights. Had 3 in the family for 3 decades and not one problem. Although any of them would be great so if one is in better condition?
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02-25-2021, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT_80
I am looking for my next revolver, and the topic of this thread crosses over the older revolvers but there isn't a general revolver section so I posted it here. Looking for advice, and an open discussion with opinions on why you feel the way you do...
I bought a 617, K frame .22 a couple weeks ago, and I am realizing I like that size frame a lot, and I would like to get a classic .38 special in a K frame size. I like 4", for not other real reason other than they look symmetric to me. I'm not opposed to a 6" barrel, I just like 4" barrels better.
Couple shops near me have some older .38 specials in stock -
Military and Police .38 revolver, refinished 1926 police trade in, with "property of XYZ police dept" on it (don't know the barrel length)
similar era Military and police .38 special revolver, 6" barrel blued, 4 screw, wood grips
Pre model 15 .38 special, 4 in barrel wood grips
Pre model 20 .38 Special 4 in barrel blued rubber grips
K38, wood grips 6" barrel
All of these options are running between $700-1000 right now, But I wanted pro's and con's to each....
Should I not go with an old police trade in from the 1920's as it could be banged up? Is a model 10 that much better than the original Military and police 38's? should I look for a model 15?
I am not looking for necessarily the most collectible models, I know they all hold resale value pretty well, just looking for a good quality blued old school .38 special revolver that I can shoot whenever I want without worrying about it cracking or having to baby it. I know in general all the older blued Smiths are good quality, but like feedback from other shooters.
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Model 19. I know, it's a .357, but you can shoot .38 Spl all day long from it. It is a classic, one of the most popular models S&W ever made, can be collectible, and you'll be able to sell it for more than you paid for it, should you ever want to. I'd look for a dash-3 or dash-4, last of the pinned and recessed versions. You might lay out $1000 for a decent, but not flawless or as-new example, but you wouldn't regret it after you shot it a while.
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02-25-2021, 08:19 PM
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Like others here, I recommend the Model 15 "Combat Masterpiece." This revolver seems to meet all your desires. I personally think the Model 15 is the best 38 Special revolver ever made.
Here's a couple pictures of mine....just to tempt you.
S&W Model 15-4 "Combat Masterpiece" in 38 Special
Thanks for looking at my "Combat Masterpiece."
God bless,
Birdgun
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02-25-2021, 08:33 PM
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Pre-Model 20. Or, Model 15. Personally, I'd try for the 20. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
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02-25-2021, 09:48 PM
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I currently own three K-frame revolvers chambered in .38 special ...
4” .38 Military & Police, 4” Model 15-2, and 6” K38 Masterpiece
I really like them all, but the last one to go would be the K38 Masterpiece. It’s simply the most accurate handgun I own.
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02-25-2021, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT_80
So I don't care so much about model or pinned barrel etc... again, I am looking for a good shooter.
Has to be blued
Has to be .38 special (I guess 357 would be ok too)
Adjustable sights would be nice, but not a must have.
I don't mind police trade-ins, I like weathered guns as long as they're functional 100% and not rusty. Ive dealt with one or two that were rusty, and they were a pain...
I guess I need to do more searching on what I want most. I like the look of the 10's, the 19's - I don't know enough about the intricacies of the dash models to know which ones are good bad etc... I love the 29's as well.
I think I was looking more for guidance so when I am in a store and pick one up, I don't buy a model that has known issues. I want to make sure I buy something I won't have trouble with. Realistically, i may only put 400-500 rounds a year through it (if even that with todays ammo issues)
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Well, if you’re widening the search to include .357’s ...
Allow me to also recommend Models 13, 19, 65, 66 (far right is an L-frame M686+)
- The 19 (blued) and 66 (stainless) have adjustable rear sights, a half under lug and commonly come in 2.5”, 4”, or 6” barrels
- The 13 (blued) and 65 (stainless) have fixed rear sights, no under lug and commonly come in 4” barrels (3” are rarer & $$$)
As a general rule, the shorter the barrel - the higher the cost.
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02-25-2021, 10:39 PM
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Out of the guns listed and your preferences I’d say the pre 15 sounds like a good choice. Any of the one’s listed are good guns, but the Combat Masterpiece is a great .38 K frame.
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02-25-2021, 11:31 PM
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The way my m10 4" tapered with Tyler T or Good Years shoots, I see no need at all for adjustable sights. And if I were a patrolman back in the day, I would have thrown any m39 in the river.
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02-26-2021, 11:02 AM
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The perfect answer to your quest would be the so-called “Roper” version of the Model 14/15. It was a 4” blued version of the double lug barrel in 38 Special so it would be a good match for your 617. The only problem is they were limited production, thus rare and expensive. “Our reach must exceed our grasp...”
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02-26-2021, 11:11 AM
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Go with the Model 15. It meets your specs. Lots of police/military history. Well made & great shooters. Not overpriced.
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02-26-2021, 01:20 PM
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I'm wishing you best of luck in this search you're making. With any luck, like many of us, you will later wind up with several Smith and Wesson revolvers!
Indeed, the K models are classics, and have been made since around 1899. So there is good reason they are so respected for their usability, reliability and retention of value. I have noted with my fixed-sight K models that not each one shoots exactly to the same point of aim with my particular grip. Therefore I am a fan of the Model 15 for its handiness and adjustability of point of impact.
Please let us know your choice!
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02-26-2021, 10:57 PM
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I took a lot of your advice- spent time looking at what I really wanted. I decided I wanted something with adjustable sights, older model, most likely pinned barrel, bull barrel, classic blued, wood grips, 4” barrel.
Well, I went to my local shop today, and they had a bunch of nice stuff.
I looked at all the ones listed- the $1000 revolvers were of course very nice... I was trying to stay in the $800 or less range. The K38 that was there was in rough shape, dirty, bluing had lots of scratching, not wel kept, but had a nearly new set of finger groove cheap wood grips, they were nice enough to take your attention off the poor finish- however, I didn’t bite.
The military and police models, one was refinished, looked like it was ceracoated... I didn’t like the skinny barrels on those as much. They had a couple Dan Wesson 6” revolvers, way more than I wanted to pay, a couple colt police positives, not that interesting, and one that wasn’t on their website yet...
Pinned Barrel 15-2. Bluing was showing some signs of being carried in a holster, a fair bit- backstrap where the thumb break would be is pretty worn off in the bluing. Frame bluing and barrel bluing was still remarkable, grips a bit banged up, chipped in a couple places, minor bluing wear on muzzle but good bore. Some Grimey stuff on the butt, screws on the side plate look like they’ve never been off, no visible damage on the forcing cone, suuuper tight lock up, timing fealt good, didn’t look too banged up... and it was $649... so I bought it, and 3 speed loader, and 2 boxes of Winchester flat nose FMJ for around $750 total with tax.
I brought my Harrington and Richardson 930 .22 revolver in to put on consignment, and they gave me a price of $399 to put on it, which I think is high, but it is a nickel plated 9 shot .22 so it might sel for that.
If that sells, I’ll use that towards the 638 I want. Or something else that piques my interest while I’m there.
Well, what you all want I’m sure is pics. I’m happier than a pig in **** right now, can’t wait to pull the grips off and clean it, so how nice I can get that bluing to look. It’s exactly what I wanted. I can imagine a trooper carrying this in the 70’s and 80’s.
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02-26-2021, 11:05 PM
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And more pics
I think for now the plans are to clean it up, oil it well, put some new grips on it (maybe target grips or just new square butt grips) and shoot it. To me, as tight as the cylinder and crane feel, I think it was well carried, not shot a lot, and and stored for many years after.
Serial is K616xxx - Any idea on a year? Pinned barrel is what, pre-82? Firing pin on hammer...
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02-27-2021, 11:56 AM
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Congratulations on your acquisition! Looks to be about 1965 and yes, certainly pre-82 for the barrel pin. Although there was a transition.
A couple of simple use/wear indicators besides tightness, but not infallible, are use scratches on the ejector rod, which appear minimal in your picture. Also, imprints of case heads on the recoil shield when you open the cylinder, esp. around area of the firing pin. Finally, gas cutting on the inside of the frame top, just aft of the barrel
If you don't happen to have one, you can look up Big 45 Frontier metal cleaning pads. You may find them beyond helpful in removing rust, with a preliminary base of light oil before touching with the pad.
Grips are a matter of personal preference - and you may wish to try several, part of the joy of having a Model 15!
Last edited by DGNY; 02-27-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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02-27-2021, 11:59 AM
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I did some quick cleaning this morning and just wiping with rem oil wipes, it’s is cleaning up superbly! This gun was in much better shape than it looked with the grunge all over it. There was some dried out white lithium grease caked up above the forcing cone and above the firing pin. It wiped right off, so somewhere along the way someone took care to keep moving parts greased.
I’m very glad I bought this one. It has the original serialized grips on it still, so I’m keeping them for sure, but going to put new ones on for shooting.
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02-27-2021, 01:34 PM
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Congrats on a nice purchase. It’s hard to go wrong with a k frame with a 4” barrel and adjustable sights.
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02-27-2021, 02:39 PM
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I would go for the pre 15 of the lot.
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02-27-2021, 03:31 PM
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Well done, GT-80.
You truly have a "Masterpiece."
You will enjoy shooting it.
Only problem I have about my Model 15 is...my wife shot it and then claimed it as her own. She loves it!!!
Last edited by Birdgun; 02-27-2021 at 03:36 PM.
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02-27-2021, 05:52 PM
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I just scored some rosewood Altamont checkered target grips with no medallion for $41. They’re not original, but they’ll be very functional and look great. Can’t wait for them to come in!
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02-27-2021, 06:42 PM
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I bought everything I wanted and then sold most of them.
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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.
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02-27-2021, 06:53 PM
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GT 80, congratulations on your purchase! Remember, prior to being given the Model 15 moniker, your revolver was known as a Combat Masterpiece. I would recommend that you save the +P ammo for serious social encounters, and restrict your 15's diet to standard velocity 148-158gr 38s. Prior to applying a light coat of oil, you may want to do a session with some Ren Wax.
Enjoy your Combat Masterpiece!
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03-01-2021, 03:39 AM
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Bubba, ya done good!
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03-04-2021, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
Of those you list I'd be looking at the pre-20 although that is an N frame 38 Special rather than a K frame 38 Special. An original finish Heavy Duty without reamed cylinders in good mechanical condition, even with rubber grips, would be worth in the $1k+ range.
None of the others as described would be worth $700-$1000. Even in today's market you should be able to find a M15 in $500-$600 range. Good luck.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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I don't know what market area you're in, but a pristine Model 15 is not going to go for $500-600 where I live.
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03-04-2021, 12:13 PM
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Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by local_dirt
I don't know what market area you're in, but a pristine Model 15 is not going to go for $500-600 where I live.
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Well how much is one where you live?
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03-04-2021, 12:14 PM
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GT 80, Congratulations on your purchase. Welcome to the Masterpiece arena. Wishing you many years of enjoyment. LD
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03-04-2021, 07:22 PM
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Well done! The rangemaster at my old dept. called the 15 the ideal police revolver. The more I see of them (and the 67s) the more I agree. You will never regret that purchase, but if you do I'll bail you out.
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03-04-2021, 08:42 PM
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I know the OP wanted nicer target grips, but since the old grips are Diamond Magnas on a 1965 year K-Frame, they might be numbered to the gun... might be worth checking and if they are, I would save them no matter the worn condition.
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03-08-2021, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC
I know the OP wanted nicer target grips, but since the old grips are Diamond Magnas on a 1965 year K-Frame, they might be numbered to the gun... might be worth checking and if they are, I would save them no matter the worn condition.
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They are numbered to the gun. I will not get rid of them, but I will change them out. If I ever sell, I will put the originals back on, and sell with the Altamont's I am getting as well... But I don't envision selling this one.
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03-08-2021, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNY
A couple of simple use/wear indicators besides tightness, but not infallible, are use scratches on the ejector rod, which appear minimal in your picture. Also, imprints of case heads on the recoil shield when you open the cylinder, esp. around area of the firing pin. Finally, gas cutting on the inside of the frame top, just aft of the barrel
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There are no casing marks on the back of the frame, and no flame cutting. I think this was carried a lot, and not shot much. It had buildup of like white lithium grease near the firing pin, and above the forcing cone, but after cleaning that up, it looks even better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman
GT 80, congratulations on your purchase! Remember, prior to being given the Model 15 moniker, your revolver was known as a Combat Masterpiece. I would recommend that you save the +P ammo for serious social encounters, and restrict your 15's diet to standard velocity 148-158gr 38s. Prior to applying a light coat of oil, you may want to do a session with some Ren Wax.
Enjoy your Combat Masterpiece!
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I don't plan to shoot + P in it at all. I have very little + P and prefer to carry it in my J frame, and LCR as theyre really rated for + P. I have a decent amount of 130 grain lead round nose, and FMJ, and a few boxes of 158 grain reman ammo. I like that stuff for target shooting... I even have some FMJ full wadcutters! That was a shock when I saw they were FMJ. I love target shooting with the reman Lead round nose or wad cutters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by local_dirt
GT 80, Congratulations on your purchase. Welcome to the Masterpiece arena. Wishing you many years of enjoyment. LD
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Thank you! I plan on keeping this one, it has just the right amount of patina, wear, and the 4" barrel is the perfect length to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buford57
Well done! The rangemaster at my old dept. called the 15 the ideal police revolver. The more I see of them (and the 67s) the more I agree. You will never regret that purchase, but if you do I'll bail you out.
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I think the 4" barrel overall is about the perfect for a fullsize revolver. in a 5 shot, I like a 3" barrel max, unless it's a target model or a 22, then I still like a 4" max.
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03-08-2021, 08:15 PM
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Absent Comrade
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Every gun has a story with me,
When I purchased my first k22/6” /22 lr 1948 target masterpiece for the grandson I never owned s&w revolvers before. The action is so smooth. I looked at the pre model number k38’s. One combat masterpiece k38 pre 14 4” and a target masterpiece pre 15 k38/6” not knowing which one I bought both. I never owned 38 special revolvers except 357.
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Last edited by BigBill; 03-08-2021 at 08:17 PM.
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03-12-2021, 01:16 PM
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Well, I finally got my Altamont grips. Got them off Ebay, guy was slow shipping, took almost 2 weeks. Realistically, probably about the same time it would take to get from Altamont though...
OMG I love these.
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I have been wiping it down with Rem oil wipes every time I take it out of the safe and handle it. The lustre really is nice now, and I love the old school font on these- The old school "&" mark makes me giddy
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I couldn't be happier with this purchase! Hoping to get out this weekend and shoot, we'll see where the weekend goes.
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