Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-13-2021, 10:46 AM
db22 db22 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: western WI USA
Posts: 12
Likes: 15
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default 3" Model 10-5 point of impact

I'm not a very good handgun shooter, but I do love to shoot my old Model 10s. I recently bought a 3" square butt, and it hits low with 158-grain LRN service ammo. Same with my 158-grain cast SWC handloads. I use a 50-foot slow fire target at 50 feet, 6 o'clock hold from a rest, single action.
I realize these revolvers were not meant for target shooting, but they were supposed to be regulated for POI using service loads. I also realize that my lack of knowledge and experience in grip, trigger squeeze, etc. will affect POI.
Any observations or advice will be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:03 AM
just plain joe just plain joe is offline
Member
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SW PA
Posts: 368
Likes: 257
Liked 466 Times in 206 Posts
Default

Not a SME, but here goes. When instructing new officers that encountered your problem, I sometimes noted that they were bringing their head down atop the firearm, i.e. like shooting "hunched-over". When I had them bring the firearm up to their eyes, in most cases the shots were more POA/POI.

I am presuming that the front sight has in no way been tampered with. If so I'm certain someone will be along who will address that.

Jm2c.

JPJ
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:05 AM
Hang-Fire Hank Hang-Fire Hank is offline
Member
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central AZ
Posts: 434
Likes: 8
Liked 355 Times in 163 Posts
Default A FRIEND IN NEED...

DB: First try grouping at a closer distance, 7-10 yds. Second, continue to shoot with your HANDS on a rest. Thirdly, have a friend, who is a marksman, do the same tests. Is he/she also impacting low?
It's possible, you're dropping the front sight due to anticipated recoil.
Concentrate on the front sight so intently, that your gradual trigger pull breaks the shot like a surprise.
PM me with your results.
Hank M.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:14 AM
RGNewell's Avatar
RGNewell RGNewell is offline
SWCA Member
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 978
Likes: 489
Liked 2,132 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Try aiming at center of target rather than 6 oclock

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 04-13-2021, 12:04 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
US Veteran
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,342
Likes: 7,526
Liked 5,577 Times in 2,556 Posts
Default

You're aiming low. See post#4.

BTW, AFAIK, S&W revolvers are NOT regulated. There is an intention in the design, and they may even be tested to some low standard, but they are not English double rifles. Some shoot to POA and some don't.
__________________
Formerly Model520Fan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-13-2021, 12:06 PM
JP@AK's Avatar
JP@AK JP@AK is offline
US Veteran
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,500
Likes: 5,121
Liked 19,049 Times in 6,879 Posts
Default

Quote:
Concentrate on the front sight
That is an important element in accurate shooting that isn't mentioned often enough. As an instructor for many years, I frequently found people who focused their eye on the rear sight or the target. Remember that the eye can only focus on one place at a time and in shooting, that must be the front sight. Practice this consciously until it becomes habit.

Also this:
Quote:
Try aiming at center of target rather than 6 oclock
For fixed sight S&W revolvers, the POI is calculated using a center of target hold. Aim low and you are likely to hit low using the loads you described.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-13-2021, 12:21 PM
Scharfschuetzer's Avatar
Scharfschuetzer Scharfschuetzer is offline
Member
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 888
Likes: 39
Liked 2,388 Times in 649 Posts
Default

Let me ask where your group actually is when aiming 6 O'Clock. Is it at the bottom of the bullseye or even lower.

Lots of good advice above; particularly on the front sight focus, but let me also suggest a heavier bullet if you handload. A 170 grain or 180 grain cast bullet may very well end up in the middle of your target. For any given pressure level, the velocity will be lower, but they will shoot higher on target than the 158 grain bullets.

I might add that when shooting for consistency or to test loads or a gun, I'm not too concerned where the group is on target. What I'm looking for is a good group. When shooting for score in a match, then they do need to go in the middle.

If you don't cast your own, Oregon Train makes a very good lead 180 grain RNFP bullet. Link: Oregon Trail Bullets
__________________
Keep your powder dry.

Last edited by Scharfschuetzer; 04-13-2021 at 12:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2021, 02:07 PM
db22 db22 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: western WI USA
Posts: 12
Likes: 15
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default

All -- Many thanks for the information and the benefits from your long experience. I received a good basic education in rifle marksmanship decades ago, but have never had any handgun instruction. The front sight has not been filed. My other Model 10 has a 5" barrel, and hits low-center of the bullseye with the same ammo. I'm sure your remarks about anticipating recoil figure in to my shooting with the 3" gun. It seems to weigh about the same, but the shorter length means that I am probably moving the 3" gun more than the 5" one. Shots are stringing vertically below the bullseye, staying on the paper. This seems indicative of anticipating recoil. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to answer.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-13-2021, 02:44 PM
RV4driver's Avatar
RV4driver RV4driver is offline
US Veteran
3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact 3" Model 10-5 point of impact  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Occupied Colorado
Posts: 922
Likes: 45
Liked 753 Times in 344 Posts
Default

Target shooting, with target sights, uses a 6 o'clock hold, with the sights adjusted so that the bullet will hit the center of the bull. Fixed sights are generally set to use what is called the point-of-aim hold. Or, top of sights aligned to the center of the bull.
__________________
Fight socialism. Never stop.

Last edited by RV4driver; 04-13-2021 at 02:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:47 AM
db22 db22 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: western WI USA
Posts: 12
Likes: 15
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Rummaging in the parts box, I found a set of Wolff reduced-power springs that I had tried out in yet another M10 I had years ago. One of their curved hammer springs, and a 15-pound rebound spring. I installed them in the 3" M10, and we'll see if the reduced trigger pull plus your advice about hold makes a difference. I have similar springs in my 5" M10, and have never had a misfire in either factory or handloaded ammo.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fixed Sight Point of Impact vs Point of Aim turnejm S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 12 08-09-2017 09:48 PM
Point of Aim/Point of Impact Speer .38 +P 135 gr. Gold Dot Ammo Walter Rego Ammo 14 09-13-2012 02:18 PM
Model 19 Point-of-Impact ma deuce S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 1 03-26-2012 09:56 PM
Model 13 Point of Aim- Point of Impact? texasjarhead S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 1 01-03-2011 03:10 PM
XVR Point of impact panhead S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 2 10-29-2009 06:22 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)