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Old 04-22-2009, 08:58 AM
Happy Hunter Happy Hunter is offline
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As I ponder between a Model 28 or a Model 25 in 45ACP. Which has more recoil??

I have never shot a 45 revolver. I have a Ruger SP101 and personally find 357 mags to be quite unfun. That little gun hurts with magnum loads. So call me a wimp. I am sure the extra mass of the 28 will do a lot to reduce recoil compared to the SP101. Just like 38+P are a piece of cake from the SP but considerably snappier from my 642.

Thanks!!
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:58 AM
Happy Hunter Happy Hunter is offline
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As I ponder between a Model 28 or a Model 25 in 45ACP. Which has more recoil??

I have never shot a 45 revolver. I have a Ruger SP101 and personally find 357 mags to be quite unfun. That little gun hurts with magnum loads. So call me a wimp. I am sure the extra mass of the 28 will do a lot to reduce recoil compared to the SP101. Just like 38+P are a piece of cake from the SP but considerably snappier from my 642.

Thanks!!
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:08 AM
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Sir, I don't have the numbers handy, but the .45 feels gentler to me. The .357's recoil is very fast, sort of like a punch, whereas the .45's is more like a big push. I actually find the .357's noise more ojectionable than its recoil.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

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Old 04-22-2009, 09:14 AM
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I have both a 28 and 25-2 in 6 inch barrels. With the warmest factory loads the 357 has a bit more recoil. However, in the N frame with the 6 inch barrel neither has very much buck!
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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IMO, if I were to carry an N frame it would be a M29 or 57.
The .357 has more felt recoil than a .45.
Try an L frame.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:47 PM
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Sp101 is a pretty small gun, much like shooting hot .357's in my Model 60 (unfun)

By comparison,.45's in my 625 are a pleasure to shoot...
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:56 PM
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the recoil of them is not really punishing, but i would avoid the ruger due to it's size. the key here is to shoot whatever you choose often and get to know the gun and cartridge, you will enjoy it much more.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:01 PM
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As others have said, it depends on the mass of the gun. It also depends on what you're shooting. All .357 rounds aren't alike. A 158 gr. .357 fired through my 6" 686 isn't a very hard recoiling round at all. It's definitely snappier than a 158 gr. 38 special round but not so much so as to be unpleasant. On the other hand, I'm definitely aware of the difference between .38 and .357 when I fire some of the hotter 125 gr. magnum rounds. This is a roundabout way of saying that hot magnum rounds fired through a relatively light gun (as in, for example, my 4" 66) definitely will feel snappier than 45 ACP rounds fired through a 5" 625.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:54 PM
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.45ACP = a very pleasing, pleasant FIRM PUSH.

.357 = a nasty stinging slap and snap.

IMHO, the two most pleasurable centerfire handgun cartridges to shoot are the .32 S&W Long and the .45ACP . . . and for different reasons/uses.

A .38 Spl. 148 grain wadcutter is also a fun load to shoot, of course!

T.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:05 PM
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I used to think nothing could touch a Freedom Arms model 83 454 I used to shoot when using factory ammo but full loads in .357 in my 66 2 1/2" or 66-6 3" is another thing altogether. I'm glad I reload or I'd be sticking with 38's the majority of the time.

I think Tom called it perfectly with his stinging slap/snap analogy.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:59 AM
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I must be an oddball, becuase I think it's the opposite. Comparing my 4 inch Model 28 to the recoil of my .45ACP Model 22-4, with most loads, a warmly-loaded .45ACP feels like it produces slightly more recoil to me. That's with a 158 grain LSWC at 1350 fps in the .357.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:34 AM
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No comparison for me between the Kimber Pro Carry II and the GP100 with the 6" barrel.
While the Kimber does muzzle flip considerably more than the long heavy Ruger, the Ruger packs a stiffer punch. Pleasantly stiffer, but stiffer none the less.
Even the 686 with the 2.5" I rented the other day was not unpleasant(actually fun) to shoot with .357 rounds. I don't object to a snap, but muzzle flip makes target reacquisition a little slower.
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:11 AM
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IMHO. The recoil of near max load 357 is stiffer than 45acp max loads. I have not tried hot loads in my 1917 colt but in my 625 which is 5 inch full lug 45 acp is much less felt recoil. I usually use a golf glove on my right hand to help with heavy recoil. It does two things; 1. helps keep the gun from slipping during recoil and 1. puts a layer of protection between the checkering and rear of the trigger guard and my hand/finger. Without the glove my middle knuckle of my middle finger gets slammed into the trigger guard. I even get this with my j-frame 38 spcl.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tom turner:
.45ACP = a very pleasing, pleasant FIRM PUSH.

.357 = a nasty stinging slap and snap.

T.
What he said. +1
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:54 AM
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i greatly prefer the .357 to .45. I understand what you guys are saying about the stinging slap of a .357, but I think a .45 is a bit more than a firm push.....

When it comes down to it, I never pass up an opportunity to shoot either!
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:26 AM
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I would subjectively say the .45 recoils less. The .357 has a sharper(louder?) blast so that makes you think it has more recoil. Also, I can shoot my 4" M-24 .44 special faster at the plate rack than an equally hot M-28 .357 but a pro might be able to shoot the .357 quicker since it has a faster recoil impulse. There is probably not enough recoil difference between the two to matter, but I prefer shooting the big bore!
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevieboy:
As others have said, it depends on the mass of the gun. It also depends on what you're shooting. All .357 rounds aren't alike. A 158 gr. .357 fired through my 6" 686 isn't a very hard recoiling round at all. It's definitely snappier than a 158 gr. 38 special round but not so much so as to be unpleasant. On the other hand, I'm definitely aware of the difference between .38 and .357 when I fire some of the hotter 125 gr. magnum rounds. This is a roundabout way of saying that hot magnum rounds fired through a relatively light gun (as in, for example, my 4" 66) definitely will feel snappier than 45 ACP rounds fired through a 5" 625.
+10 or so on this observation. The .45 shoves and with enough bullet and powder, can shove very hard but not painful. By the same token, a 200 gr. bullet from a .357, even a J frame, is not unpleasant; nowhere in the same class as the 125 grainers.
Dan
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:32 PM
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When American police began the switch to semiautomatics from double action revolvers, I used tio find it amusing that many of the same folks that had carried and shot a 4 inch M-19 or -66 loaded with Magnums, thought a 1911 in .45 ACP was a brutal kicker!
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BUFF:
When American police began the switch to semiautomatics from double action revolvers, I used tio find it amusing that many of the same folks that had carried and shot a 4 inch M-19 or -66 loaded with Magnums, thought a 1911 in .45 ACP was a brutal kicker!
+1
I have owned a large number of .357's of verious sizes, and several .45 auto's and revos. There is no comparison in my opinion. Neither one is what I consider a "kicker", but the .357 is much more noticable in that department. I shoot almost nothing but +P loads in my .45's, and they are still milder than about any full power .357 round.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:26 AM
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I have never had the pleasure of shooting 45 acp out of a revolver, but I have owned a Colt Series 80 in the past. With the Remingon 185gr +P load, I thought the recoil was fairly stout. Not punishing, but had a lot going on at one time (noise, flash, muzzle flip, slide slamming back and forth, etc.) I have had a Ruger Blackhawk and currently have a 4" 686 and a 4" M19. I usually shoot 38 special for target, but the 357 loads really don't bother me, even in the K-Frame. I shoot mostly factory 158gr SWC loads and carry 158gr SWCHP's. Both the 45 acp and the 357 mag should be a pleasure to shoot in an N-Frame. With the M28 you could always shoot 38 specials for target, if the recoil of the 357 mag is too much. The M25 should be comfortable as well, just stay away from the 185gr +P loads. To answer your initial question, I would think a full 357 mag load is going to have the most felt recoil. Hope this helped in some way.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:47 PM
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I have had a couple lightweight 1911s in 45 ACP. I used to have a 4" 686 (regret selling that).

The aluminum 45 1911 has more muzzleflip than the 686 but less punch in the recoil. I don't remember it too well since it has been 12 years since I shot the magnums thru the 686 and I did not shoot many of them. I shot factory mags because I did not reload magnums only 38 Special. I seem to remember the 158 gr were not fun but not bad either, I shot about 2 boxes of them. Then I bought some 125s... wow I did not like them even thru the heavy 686, I only shot about half a box of them. Factory light loaded 110 gr were so pleasant, that is what I kept loaded in it.

Thanks for the info!! I think I will pursue a 45 ACP someday. I don't have the money or time to experiment with a new gun now.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:46 AM
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Well there are two types of recoil.

Actual recoil is the amount of force that results from the action of the bullet being fired. In basic physics for every action there is a reaction. This "reaction" is the recoil. The recoil is figured by a calculation based on the weight of the gun, the weight of the bullet, the type of powder being used, and the velocity of the bullet.

A simplified version of the calculation is here:

http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

The other type of recoil is felt recoil. In my opinion, in handguns, this is the more significant of the two. Felt recoil varies from one type of gun to another based on the ammo and load being used, the type of gun (da revolver, sa revolver, semi-auto, etc.), the type of stocks on the gun and of course the shooter.

To me all loads of the .45 acp from an N frame revolver are pretty much pleasant to shoot. Not so all loads of the .357. One advantage of the .357 though is that it can be effectively chambered in smaller guns and you can shoot .38 Spl. from it.

Give some thought to the purpose of the gun. That is what you intend to have it do. Selection of a gun and a caliber can be matched to the task you have in mind for it.

My advice is to go out and rent or borrow a couple of guns and shoot some of both. Or better yet buy one. Shoot it and learn about recoil and the gun and loads for it yourself. In a couplea years buy another gun in a different caliber and learn about that some. You have time.

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Old 04-25-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hoot:
Quote:
Originally posted by tom turner:
.45ACP = a very pleasing, pleasant FIRM PUSH.

.357 = a nasty stinging slap and snap.

T.
What he said. +1
What they said.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sportsterguy:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hoot:
Quote:
Originally posted by tom turner:
.45ACP = a very pleasing, pleasant FIRM PUSH.

.357 = a nasty stinging slap and snap.

T.
What he said. +1
What they said.

Yet another vote.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:18 AM
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I have to agree with those who say the .357 mag. is "snappier". .45 ACP is more of a push than a jab.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:32 AM
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If you're shooting maximum loads, I agree that the .357 is much nastier. It's got more power.

Buffalo Bore, who likes to make high power loads, doesn't even make a standard .45 load. Their hottest +P is only 490 ft-lbs.

Their hottest .357 - non plus P - is 802 ft lbs.

And the velocities are different:

That hot .357 is 125 grains at 1700 fps!

The .45 is a 200 gr. at 1050.

So yes, the .357 push is probably faster and harder, and the sound is a higher pitched bark. The bullet is out of the barrel much faster.

But, so far as I am concerned, because the .357 is a revolver round, and you can get .38 specials as well, this is no problem. You want 208 ft lbs? No problem.

Since 45ACP is primarily designed for semi-autos, the manufacturers make a smaller range of powers - got to keep that slide happy.

I reload .38 special cases with 158 grain semi-wadcutters the minimum amount of HP38, and get wimpy loads for practice. Then I fire a few nasties at the end, just to make sure I can shoot with them too.

Then I fire a few extra nasties from my .44 Magnum just for shock and awe.

That's what you should really get - a .44 Magnum. It's designed for people who cannot decide between a .357 and a .45ACP.

It's got a big, heavy bullet - only about .02" less than a .45.

And you can load it with little baby charges - .44 Special - if you're worried about recoil

Or you can load it up to almost 1200 ft-lbs....

And the velocity is a bit lower. Not as high pitched a bark.
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:48 AM
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I think tipoc's description of the variables is pretty good. The higher pressure loads, such as a hot .357 (Magnum or Sig - pretty similar) have a sharp, really unpleasant bark, lots of noise and muzzle blast. I think the felt recoil impulse is sharper, too - a fast shove. True recoil is a matter of physics, as some pointed out, but the "amount" of that energy is not the same as the manner in which it is felt. The additional noise and blast increase the perception of recoil, IMHO.

When one throws autopistol vs. revolver into the mix, it changes the comparison in two ways. The operation of the mechanism "uses" some of that energy, but you may also feel the impulse of the slide.

I've found that as I get older, there is something about the impulse of the .45ACP in an autopistol that bugs my shoulders and wrists a bit, but a HOT 9mm +P+ duty round, apparently due to the lighter bullet, does not. Other than duty training, if I go to a shoot school, I tend to take my 9mm auto - similar holster, same operation, easier on the old guy.

In a revolver, I think a steady diet of one of the two would make the .45ACP more appealing, regardless of use needs, and the .45AR can be loaded with some heavy SWCs at most of 1000 fps to do most anything you would need in the lower 48.
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:21 AM
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It is to bad that you,Happy Hunter cannot compare these 2 calibres in recoil to the S&Ws .500 2.5 inch 5 shot revolver the EES. Now thats a slapper and a stinger compared to a Ruger SP101 and the .45 revolvers or semi-auto pistols. But,,,,, all I can say is about the recoil between the 3, The .500,,,,,, WHAT A RUSH. rz625-8 And all you guys are wimps.
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:39 PM
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There is no point in owning a .357 magnum revolver if you are just going to shoot .38 special loads in it. Having said that, I confess that I really don't like shooting .357 loads out of a lightweight (38 ounce) 4" revolver. It is brutal. I have one L frame 4" and two fully underlugged 6" .357 magnums, and there is a big difference.
A .45 automatic with normal 230 grain loads is a *****cat compared to full house .357s. There is no need to go +P with the .45 automatic. The regular powered loads are sufficiently disabling.
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:21 PM
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I've shot a zillion .45 ACP and quite s few .38s and .357s. I definitely agree with the push vs. slap guys.

You have to remember .45 N frames are bigger and heavier than .357 K&J frames and because of that size and weight much more pleasant to shoot.

N frame vs N frame the 4 inch and shorter .357s have much more blast and that adds some to the overall perception of recoil until you get accustomed to it. In 6 inch N frames (or with the muzzle heavy full underlug of the 6 inch .357 L frames) the difference is not nearly as big a deal.

While .357s can be mastered without too much fuss in the larger frame guns, there is no doubt the .45 ACP is more pleasant to shoot; right from the get go.

/c
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:29 PM
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Do you like butter or Tabasco on your waffles?
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:51 AM
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How about a rifle comparison: 7mm Rem mag vs. a 405gr 45/70. The small & fast vs. the big & slow.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:03 PM
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44wheelman,

What weight bullet for the 7mm?

tipoc
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:21 PM
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I think the .357 is pleasant to shoot in a revolver of adequate weight as long as you have good ear protection. I qualified with full 158 gr swc loads every month for years. That 4" model 66 is still my go to gun. Recoil is manageable if you can muffle that blast.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Happy Hunter:
As I ponder between a Model 28 or a Model 25 in 45ACP. Which has more recoil??

Just depends on the ammo you use in each one.

I've shot light, +P .45 acp's that matched the bark and bite of a .357 magnum and I've shot mild .357's that matched the soft .45's.

Clear as mud.
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2009, 02:34 PM
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357 or 45ACP  Recoil comparison?? 357 or 45ACP  Recoil comparison?? 357 or 45ACP  Recoil comparison?? 357 or 45ACP  Recoil comparison?? 357 or 45ACP  Recoil comparison??  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hoot:
Quote:
Originally posted by tom turner:
.45ACP = a very pleasing, pleasant FIRM PUSH.

.357 = a nasty stinging slap and snap.

T.
What he said. +1

make that +2
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:49 PM
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When it comes to hot sauces I like the ones with Habenero peppers. Nice and HOT. Tabasco is tasty with some bite.

However, burn in the mouth and other body places will "pass". I have enough hand problems that I don't want to beat on my hands with my handguns. I like 357 in my Ruger Blackhawk, it just flips and rolls, does not smack in the web so much.
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1911, 357 magnum, 45acp, 642, 686, checkering, colt, k-frame, kimber, l frame, m19, m28, m29, model 19, model 24, model 25, model 28, model 29, model 625, n-frame, ruger, sig arms, wadcutter

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