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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors


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Old 08-26-2021, 05:34 PM
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Default Model 17-2 Identification assistance please

I am looking at a Model 17-2 as a possible purchase and would appreciate help making sure it as original as advertised.
The serial number is K658XXX, on both the crane and butt and listed as end of 1965 birth date. Has target grips and target sights. I am no expert but all photos show a gun in excellent condition. Bluing is shiny with no wear marks and only a very slight turn ring on the cylinder. Minor dings on the grips. Unfortunately there is no box or papers. From all appearance this looks to be a original, lightly used piece.
Does the lack of the box and papers diminish the value?
What would be the estimated value as is?
Thanks for any help.
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Old 08-26-2021, 06:11 PM
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It looks good , my 17-2 I bought this year for 750.00 . It doesnít have target trigger and hammer or targets stockís but did have magnas.Prices vary and yes lack of box does lower the value to a collector. To me I shoot everything and if I want it I will pay a higher price for it. I felt I got mine for a great price and it didnít have the box either.
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Old 08-26-2021, 06:21 PM
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The target grips being unrelieved are earlier than the gun

To me they would actually add value.
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Old 08-26-2021, 06:27 PM
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I understand people being reluctant to post the asking price, but without knowing how much they are asking it is hard to say it's a great deal, a very fair deal or they are skinning you!

Box and papers add about $100 +-.

From your picture that looks like a very nice 17-2 that I would be pleased to own.

Ed

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Old 08-26-2021, 07:10 PM
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I own a 17-2, 6" w/ original magna grips, in around 95% condition (similar to yours, I believe) w/o box & doc's that I'd value at $850.

Prices vary with geography; also the non-relieved target grips on the gun you're considering have more value than period correct diamond magnas. But you'll never find the original grips with matching SN and to find out if it's current target grips were original (low-to-no probability), would cost you $125 for a Jinks letter, so that's probably a wash. Anyways, just a few thoughts since you asked. Hope this helps. -S2

ETA: per your SN, I would agree that it probably shipped in 1965. My 17-2 is SN K533xxx and shipped in Oct-63.

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Old 08-26-2021, 07:21 PM
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My 17-2 is from 1967. I paid $750 earlier this year. No box, but grips are original to the gun.

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Old 08-26-2021, 07:25 PM
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Looks like a well taken care of K22 that some one added a set of targets to. Lots of people tossed the boxes and back in the mid 60s the revolver was young those non relieved targets were not considered special. May have came from one someone wanted to use with a speed loader.

It is a about $750+ gun IMHO. You could surely trade the non relieved grips for period correct targets or magnas with some left over on your side. I have no idea how much non relieved targets go for though.
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:09 PM
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Several of you commented that the grips are "unrelieved target grips", not original to the gun. What's meant by "unrelieved"? Here's a photo of them, as you see there is no serial number or other markings, so it's assumed they are not original? How can you tell they predate the gun?
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:32 PM
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I propose that the above listed price estimates are low given today's market by $100-$150. Those non-relieved target stocks (no "football cut out" in the left grip) are worth $200 minimum, maybe more. I have a nice set on a 19-2 and would not sell them. The 17-2 looks very good and is likely to shoot even better. Don't quibble about a few bucks if it is a gun you want.
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Old 08-26-2021, 09:06 PM
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What's meant by "unrelieved"? Here's a photo of them, as you see there is no serial number or other markings, so it's assumed they are not original? How can you tell they predate the gun?
The earliest K frame target stocks had no relief for the extractor in the left hand panel. That's what you have, hence, "non-relieved." In about the middle of the 1950s, a football shaped relief was added on that left panel, so the extractor star would not engage the top of the stocks when spent rounds were ejected.

Much later, in the late 1970s, a complete section was cut out of the left panel. This provided even more relief, this time for the use of a speedloader (see pics below).

Since the non-relieved target stocks went out of production in the mid-50s, and your revolver is from the mid-60s, we know they stocks antedate the gun.

"Football" extractor relief.


Speedloader cut.


Added:
No serial number is normal. With a very few early K frame exceptions (on the Combat Magnum) target stocks were not numbered to the gun.
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Old 08-26-2021, 09:31 PM
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If I understand what you are telling me Jack, either someone installed a set of original K22 NOS Pre-mid 50's target grips OR the grips on the gun were made aftermarket as "fake" K22 grips?
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Old 08-26-2021, 09:52 PM
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Are these marking on the frame telling us anything?
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Old 08-26-2021, 11:11 PM
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If I understand what you are telling me Jack, either someone installed a set of original K22 NOS Pre-mid 50's target grips OR the grips on the gun were made aftermarket as "fake" K22 grips?
Those are NOT fake. They are the real thing. And they have value that will run into the low hundreds.

They did not necessarily come off a K-22. Could have been a K-38 or (unlikely) a K-32. Another possibility is an early Combat Masterpiece.

Quote:
Are these marking on the frame telling us anything?
Not much. The five digit number is a parts-tracking number. It should match the one on the yoke.

The 5 is just a fitter's mark, used for QC during the assembly process.
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Old 08-26-2021, 11:39 PM
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Thanks again, Jack. Your information is very helpful. I'm liking this gun more every minute!!
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:35 PM
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One more question for you guys concerning the 17-2 I have been looking at. You can see in the photo in my OP there is virtually no turn ring on the cylinder, which leads me to think is was lightly used. However if you look at this photo of the rear of the cylinder frame the is a lot of wear around the firing pin and latch pin. This is really the only place on the gun that shows any of what I would consider significant wear. Is this something that would devalue the gun?
In another post I was talking about a 17-3 from 1968 my LGS had for sale. It was like new with original box, paper work, one owner with original receipt and log showing less that 70 rounds fired. Their asking price was $1200.
The asking price for the 17-2 in this thread, no box or papers, is almost half of that. Is there a red flag waving here?
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:41 PM
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The asking price for the 17-2 in this thread, no box or papers, is almost half of that. Is there a red flag waving here?
Yes, it's screaming, "Buy me now or someone else will!"......Ben
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Old 08-27-2021, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
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One more question for you guys concerning the 17-2 I have been looking at. You can see in the photo in my OP there is virtually no turn ring on the cylinder, which leads me to think is was lightly used. However if you look at this photo of the rear of the cylinder frame the is a lot of wear around the firing pin and latch pin. This is really the only place on the gun that shows any of what I would consider significant wear.
You have a light tracking line on the cyl because the cyl stop latch is well fitted, has little wear, and the gun was not abused; i.e., closing the cyl w/o lining up the cyl notch with the cyl stop latch a whole bunch of times.

The recoil shield wear is what I'd call normal, not a lot of wear. A lot of wear causes the hole for the locking pin to be worn egg shaped. That one is still nice and round. Sure it's had many rounds thru it, and has normal wear, that's all.

The best thing you could do if possible is to shoot it to make sure it doesn't misfire any brands of ammo. CCI is a good test because they usually misfire the easiest in a weak action due to the good thick brass they use. At least ask the owner if you can or ask if it ever misfires. Rimfires are the hardest to ignite, especially if someone has tried to "tune it" to lighten the trigger pull. And occasionally need a new main spring.

Also ask why the rear sight is elevated so high? Was the owner shooting long range or did the gun shoot low?

It's a decent price for a decent gun.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:02 PM
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Between the two guns price wise INHO is the higher priced one has the original box and paperwork. Also a log that allegedly (I say that because it can't be proven one way or the other) details the number of rounds shot. Asking and getting are two separate things.
The other gun has been used but well taken care of. It's one you can use, take care of and probably never loose any money. You could do that with either of them really.
If you want something to sit in the safe and possibly appreciate to a higher degree than the first one is the one to buy.
I recently bought a K22 with TTT without the box and in 95% condition for right about $1000 with shipping. I enjoy that gun several times a month. It's my favorite K22.
The easiest thing to do is buy both of them
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:08 PM
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Are these marking on the frame telling us anything?
It has two normal inspector codes; the 5 and the 2.

The 5 digit # is an assembly # that should match the # on the yoke (which also has some inspector codes) and the backside of the side plate.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:38 PM
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The easiest thing to do is buy both of them
I surely wish I could buy them both!! The 17-3 with the box and papers is at the LGS 4 miles up the street. I haven't looked at it in detail but now that I have a lot more information from all of you who have been kind enough to respond to my questions about what to look for, I can go back and make a better informed decision.
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:40 PM
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You won't go wrong with either one. Buy the one you like the best and enjoy it.
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Old 08-27-2021, 06:19 PM
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Yes, it's screaming, "Buy me now or someone else will!"......Ben
Yes, about under 7 bills is buy it now country these days
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Old 08-27-2021, 07:04 PM
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Some sage advice going on here about the purchase(s).
I own a 17-2, and its a 1968, and it was pretty solid when I bought it, sans the dried grease in the action.
The 17-2 had target grips on when purchased, and shortly thereafter, I added a new Target Hammer and Target Trigger, along with lightened action....etc.

What I found when firing the revolver was the cylinder bores were excessively tight, so tight that the emptys would not eject properly. It didn't matter if the rounds were standard velocity, shorts, longs, or long rifle rounds......they wouldn't eject. To relieve the issue, I lightly honed all six holes with a special ordered hone. Problem gone.

I'll post an image of the 17-2 with it's younger brother, 617 no dash, four inch, which I bought new in the very early 1990's.

My simple advice to You, BTW, buy whichever revolver is in the better condition, especially on the mechanical end of things!
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Old 08-27-2021, 07:31 PM
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The 617 is a nice revolver. I have one from the 90's as well. It's a bit heavy but accurate and fun to shoot. It usually comes along on range trips with the K22's.
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Old 08-30-2021, 08:57 PM
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UPDATE
Thank you all for your very useful information. This 17-2 was listed on GB by a highly rated dealer so back on 8/26 I made an opening bid of $600 which was the starting bid with no reserve. The auction ended earlier tonight. and I was the winner at $600, no other bids were made. The seller's listing included 76 very detailed photo's, some of which I have attached here, and after carefully studying them and keeping your remarks in mind I think (and hope!) I have bought a very fine S&W at an excellent price. I plan to shoot this pistol and keep it in as good as condition as I can.
Some of you have commented that these stocks predate the gun by a decade since they don't have the relief cut on the left side and they could be worth something on their own. You can see the right side has a small sliver missing near the checkering
so I would assume that will affect their value?
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File Type: jpg 17.2.jpg (133.6 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 17.6.jpg (129.0 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 17.3.jpg (161.0 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 17.8.jpg (154.6 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 17.13.jpg (108.0 KB, 33 views)

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Old 08-30-2021, 09:00 PM
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Here's a few more photos. As I mentioned in an earlier post the stocks are not serial number marked. Could that mean these stocks were new old stock the factory had laying around and put on this gun during production or more likely they were installed by an owner by a previous owner?
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File Type: jpg 17.18.jpg (116.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 17.17.jpg (104.1 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 17.10.jpg (115.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 17.16.jpg (102.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg grips.jpg (178.7 KB, 23 views)

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Old 08-30-2021, 09:29 PM
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I'd say you did very well at $600. I can't speak to the stocks but the chip would effect resale value. If it were mine I wouldn't worry about the grips just enjoy a very nice revolver.
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Old 08-30-2021, 09:45 PM
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I had been looking for a new 22LR DA revolver or any brand as a sister to my Ruger Single Ten but they are nowhere to be found. I had seen one or two new Model 17's selling in the $1000 range on GB and my LGS had a 17-3 1968 vintage with box and papers for $1200, but for the $600 I paid for this one I get both a great shooter and a "classic". If I ever have to sell it and just come out even I'll be happy but I think I'll take it with me when I go!
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
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the stocks are not serial number marked.
As I mentioned clear back in Post #10, target stocks usually were not numbered to the gun. Here is what I wrote:

With a very few early K frame exceptions (on the Combat Magnum) target stocks were not numbered to the gun.

Quote:
Could that mean these stocks were new old stock the factory had laying around and put on this gun during production or more likely they were installed by an owner by a previous owner?
It is virtually a certainty that some previous owner added them to this revolver. Your K-22 Masterpiece Model 17-2 did not leave the factory wearing those stocks. Period.
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:00 PM
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It is virtually a certainty that some previous owner added them to this revolver. Your K-22 Masterpiece Model 17-2 did not leave the factory wearing those stocks. Period.
I copy that sir. I realize from all the very useful information you and others have provided that unrelieved target stocks such as these were not factory installed on 1965 K frames such as the 17-2 I purchased. It appears it will remain a mystery how they got on this revolver.
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  #31  
Old 08-31-2021, 03:03 PM
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It's not much of a mystery really. IMHO the target stocks are much more comfortable to shoot with. I have a pre M17 with TTT's and put target grips on a pre M14. When I find another pair I'll put them on a M18.
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  #32  
Old 08-31-2021, 03:14 PM
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Nice Gun, nice Grips!
I’m also thinking $750+.
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  #33  
Old 08-31-2021, 03:27 PM
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I think you got quite a deal, Chief. That will clean up real nice! I like the stocks very much, and would leave them on the revolver. Didnít even see that sliver until you mentioned it.
Congratulations
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS336 View Post
I think you got quite a deal, Chief. That will clean up real nice! I like the stocks very much, and would leave them on the revolver. Didnít even see that sliver until you mentioned it.
Congratulations
Thanks. Can I assume by your ID you're a "brother of the fin" and a smoke boat sailor? That was a little before my time.
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Old 09-07-2021, 05:27 PM
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Picked it up from my FFL dealer yesterday and the photos I posted don't do it justice. The bluing is absolutely beautiful, no wear marks or scratches or flaws in the finish except normal wear on the face of the recoil shield and slight wear on the extractor rod and yoke hinge.
The cylinder lockup and timing are perfect and there are no rotation lines on the cylinder from the cylinder stop. There is zero end shake.
The grips have very minor dings on the bottom edge and a very small sliver about 1" long missing from the right stock at the checkering line but for 60 years old stocks I can't complain.
I completely disassembled it and the interior was pretty clean with only a bit of old sticky oil on the sides of the trigger and hammer. I cleaned everything up with a stiff brush and gun scrubber, put just a whisper of oil on everything and an additional small drop on the rotating parts. The barrel and chambers were squeaky clean and bright.
I did some dry firing with wall anchors in the chambers and the trigger is fantastic.
DA is silky smooth and not real heavy, I'd guess 8 or 9 pounds. SA is creep free and crisp and probably 2 pounds.
Hoping to get this beauty to the range tomorrow. Report to follow if I get the chance.
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